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  • #26,821
  • Dec 1, 2023 1:40am Dec 1, 2023 1:40am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} you can calculate how many people needed to lose the fees for that you can win, when they pay out around 20% of the earned fees inside props. so you are good.
I’ll defer as well trading in whole like this someone loss is someone profit
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,822
  • Dec 1, 2023 2:42am Dec 1, 2023 2:42am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} I’ll defer as well trading in whole like this someone loss is someone profit
this i here not a loss from other trading losses, its just you take the fee of attending from someone. when not many attend or many other win same time you dont get payed. different way , nothing to do with trading like construction where one side wins and other is losing, its just a simple game here.
  • #26,823
  • Dec 1, 2023 2:44am Dec 1, 2023 2:44am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} thats what i was doing apart from my main accounts. I flip 1k to many many dollars in minimum period of time which is thrilling and entertaining for me. The best i did was 2k to 55k in 13 trading days. I did it not one or twice many many times here. Smart doesn’t mean nonsense risk instead controlled risk with alot of factors…. IN THE END SHARING MY EMOTIONS AND OPINIONS NOT A ADVICE
but why you do then prop, sounds like you waste time with this when you earn more in the other way? very bad opportunity cost by this on the end. and prop in general only useful for low opportunity cost people.
  • #26,824
  • Dec 1, 2023 3:17am Dec 1, 2023 3:17am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} but why you do then prop, sounds like you waste time with this when you earn more in the other way? very bad opportunity cost by this on the end. and prop in general only useful for low opportunity cost people.
In my opinion they are kinda similar either 200k challenge account or 1k personal to flip…. In regards of PROBABILITIES HIGHER CHANCE TO SUCCEED WITH 200k account to achieve 10k or more than flipping 1k to 10k in minimum period of time……
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,825
  • Dec 1, 2023 4:04am Dec 1, 2023 4:04am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} In my opinion they are kinda similar either 200k challenge account or 1k personal to flip…. In regards of PROBABILITIES HIGHER CHANCE TO SUCCEED WITH 200k account to achieve 10k or more than flipping 1k to 10k in minimum period of time……
but how many accounts get busted when going from 1k to 10k? because when not then increase depositing money and do slower for lets say 100k to 200k is not much more win in short time (in general should be by math)?
  • #26,826
  • Dec 1, 2023 4:43am Dec 1, 2023 4:43am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} but how many accounts get busted when going from 1k to 10k? because when not then increase depositing money and do slower for lets say 100k to 200k is not much more win in short time (in general should be by math)?
Only 1k as logic is same like prop firm get the first payout and then purchase more with it if it blows
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,827
  • Dec 1, 2023 5:11am Dec 1, 2023 5:11am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The process depends: a) On the firm and where you are going to receive the money b) Address where you want to receive the money, if you are using a self custody crypto address or an exchange like Coinbase or Binance c) The coin you chose (BTC, USDT, ETH, etc.)
Sorry to join in. But in both cases, once you need to spend them, you will have to change them in fiat anyway since there are very few businesses that accept cryptos as payments?
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #26,828
  • Dec 1, 2023 5:12am Dec 1, 2023 5:12am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Only 1k as logic is same like prop firm get the first payout and then purchase more with it if it blows
I must say your method is quite fascinating since it seems to me some other people here use similar methods kinda like Navk. When Ive done tests mainly on indices tho. Such methods would normally be very difficult with indices and I assume why some here avoid futures prop firms. Due to the volatility factor.

But I can imagine on more directional instruments as I call it where the banks flush cash and then just ride the wave like GBP/USD and so on. I can imagine if one is good at detecting when that happens that method might work same as other instruments maybe gold. Personally for sure not my way. Due to the extreme roller coaster one gets when it comes to funds. As I think Trader191 mentioned he wondered I think about your win ratio of investing and 1k to 10k and if its worthwhile that way, say 10 1k losses in row and then if one manages to hit a few wins in trends going to 1k to 10k, Then one would breakeven right. But so there must be some averaging in the analysis that makes it worthwhile and been tested alot ofc I assume. Maybe a secret thats fine ofc.

Basically what ive seen lately testing a few years manually on indices so on is that martingale is the ruler in the end when it comes to stability and not massive one time pushes due to how the markets sway with indices US markets. But of course Im for sure a newbie so, but inconventional methods are always intriguing.
  • #26,829
  • Dec 1, 2023 5:35am Dec 1, 2023 5:35am
I been exploring futures platforms and challenges since few weeks. Currently new challenge with trading pit. challenge seems easy because you get static drawdown. Then you got thru scalling with trailing drawdown. the more you earn the biggest profit you need to make. Anyway they provide atas platform and is from beginning the best i seen and easy to use. Everything easy and clear. Recommend.
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  • #26,830
  • Dec 1, 2023 5:38am Dec 1, 2023 5:38am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} Sorry to join in. But in both cases, once you need to spend them, you will have to change them in fiat anyway since there are very few businesses that accept cryptos as payments?
Generally speaking yes, you need to exchange crypto for fiat in an exchange like Binance, Coinbase, etc. (I've been using Kraken) or in other ways of P2P (never done that)

You can also buy gift cards with crypto. Depending on your country, you may have plenty or lack of offers.
I've been buying several gift cards in Bitrefill like IKEA, Decathlon, etc. So far it has been pretty legit, with immediate deliver in a couple of seconds (and when they get out of stock they reimburse immediately).
  • #26,831
  • Dec 1, 2023 5:43am Dec 1, 2023 5:43am
Quoting Expo33
Seriously, what could go wrong?
  • #26,832
  • Dec 1, 2023 6:15am Dec 1, 2023 6:15am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} Sorry to join in. But in both cases, once you need to spend them, you will have to change them in fiat anyway since there are very few businesses that accept cryptos as payments?
That is absolutely correct. Crypto as a means of payment for exchanging goods is far from being a reality and will take a long time (if ever).
  • #26,833
  • Dec 1, 2023 6:22am Dec 1, 2023 6:22am
Quoting Capablanca
Generally speaking yes, you need to exchange crypto for fiat in an exchange like Binance, Coinbase, etc.
OR you can use a decentralized exchange / P2P such as "LocalCoinSwap". I am using it to withdraw crypto payments i receive on a regular base and never had any trouble with it. After the FTX crash the last person should have understood that the central exchanges are anything but secure. I also have an account with Binance for years, but I don't trust them either and they have often blocked/stopped payouts for the strangest reasons. If you want to remain anonymous, central exchanges are not an option anyway.
  • #26,834
  • Dec 1, 2023 7:36am Dec 1, 2023 7:36am
Quoting lddd
{quote} OR you can use a decentralized exchange / P2P such as "LocalCoinSwap". I am using it to withdraw crypto payments i receive on a regular base and never had any trouble with it. After the FTX crash the last person should have understood that the central exchanges are anything but secure. I also have an account with Binance for years, but I don't trust them either and they have often blocked/stopped payouts for the strangest reasons. If you want to remain anonymous, central exchanges are not an option anyway.
That's the thing. I don't see a big difference between your bank and those central exchanges since they are just other kind of financial institutions with right of inspection about how you make money, where it's coming from, etc... Except for the small purchases like Capablanca referred to, if you want to buy a car for example, you would have anyway to send the fiat currencies to your bank in order to pay for it, so it's just an additional intermediary?

For the P2Ps, where do they send you the fiat currencies?
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #26,835
  • Dec 1, 2023 8:09am Dec 1, 2023 8:09am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} For the P2Ps, where do they send you the fiat currencies?
I tried P2P transactions before with Binance, both as a buyer and seller of crypto. If you are selling your crypto, you just select your country and you will find a list of buyers from your country. Then you send your bank details, the buyer sends the fiat currency to your local bank. Then you confirm with Binance that you have received the fiat/local currency equivalent, then they release the crypto to the buyer’s Binance acct/wallet.
  • #26,836
  • Dec 1, 2023 8:11am Dec 1, 2023 8:11am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} 1. SIMPLE TRY TO SCALP 10-20 pips with the trend 2. MOST IMPORTANT NOT TO RISK MORE THAN 1% per trade. 3. Strict discipline to follow above two rules. Yesterday trades… ONLY GOLD, GU & US30 {image} {image}
I can see you are very experienced trader. I'm 2yrs trading now, not consistently profitable. I'm currently break even trader, just cant seem to get over the hump.
  • #26,837
  • Dec 1, 2023 8:42am Dec 1, 2023 8:42am
Quoting labu
{quote} I must say your method is quite fascinating since it seems to me some other people here use similar methods kinda like Navk. When Ive done tests mainly on indices tho. Such methods would normally be very difficult with indices and I assume why some here avoid futures prop firms. Due to the volatility factor. But I can imagine on more directional instruments as I call it where the banks flush cash and then just ride the wave like GBP/USD and so on. I can imagine if one is good at detecting when that happens that method might work same as...
I don't get it, what can be more directional then indices?

I don't trade FX but in the past I was analyzing the charts to find the best trending instruments and indices were by far the best ones. FX not so much. Even some automated trend following strategies I used for back testing gave me best results with indices.

When looking at FX pairs, I quickly rejected all GBP pairs (among some others) as those were the most chaotic ones with least trending.

Seems like we must be using totally different TF's or I don't know. But you're not the only one - many others share the same opinion. So I'm just wondering why's that I see it in the exact opposite way
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #26,838
  • Dec 1, 2023 8:51am Dec 1, 2023 8:51am
Quoting Contessa22
{quote} I tried P2P transactions before with Binance, both as a buyer and seller of crypto. If you are selling your crypto, you just select your country and you will find a list of buyers from your country. Then you send your bank details, the buyer sends the fiat currency to your local bank. Then you confirm with Binance that you have received the fiat/local currency equivalent, then they release the crypto to the buyer’s Binance acct/wallet.
Let me just add that exchanging in exchanges is risky but not that risky if you just exchange crypto->fiat and immediately withdraw the fiat. I would not recommend to keep either crypto or fiat in a exchange (see what happened to FTX and others).

For the P2P or dex there is also risk.

Imagine that you have BTC to sell and I want to buy it. I send you a Wise or Revolut transfer. You send me the BTCs. All fine.

Then, it happens that I'm a drug dealer or an ilegal weapons seller, investigated by the police. Suddenly, everybody that interacted with my bank account, receiving or sending wires, may face investigations and annoyances until they are released. And in some countries they could even declare the trade null and ask for the money (or coins) back.

And cryptos are not like paper money bills. With bills we don't know if that bill was used for something ilegal in the past. However those BTCs can be tracked (and are tracked in investigations). They may be "tainted" with some ilegal activity.

That's why I never got interested in dex or P2P to exchange cryptos. I prefer to do that in Kraken and immediately withdraw it. It's all a matter of minutes in total, many times less than 15 minutes.
  • #26,839
  • Dec 1, 2023 8:57am Dec 1, 2023 8:57am
Quoting labu
{quote} I must say your method is quite fascinating since it seems to me some other people here use similar methods kinda like Navk. When Ive done tests mainly on indices tho. Such methods would normally be very difficult with indices and I assume why some here avoid futures prop firms. Due to the volatility factor. But I can imagine on more directional instruments as I call it where the banks flush cash and then just ride the wave like GBP/USD and so on. I can imagine if one is good at detecting when that happens that method might work same as...
true ,i was speaking about the 1k to 10 k many times done part , how many accounts bust for one time working.

in general is the rule: the better the trader is (and the higher the edge) , a one time bet in place is extrem more win with less drawdown against any many time bets over martingale, grid or whatever, the difference is extrem. when the trader is not very good or cant analyze his trades good or has no stable edge, then only placing many trades can give an advantage by luck. you can easy find this out in analyzing ,but only works for a trading system with a trading plan, so fixed rules. if this is not there nothing will be possible to calculate and even the best edge can disappear, Always bigger luck parts need to be there. thats the reason why some trader think edges disappear and other not, even by trading same strategies. but thats a huge topic, thats what starting splits traders from gambler often.
  • #26,840
  • Edited 9:29am Dec 1, 2023 9:09am | Edited 9:29am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I don't get it, what can be more directional then indices? I don't trade FX but in the past I was analyzing the charts to find the best trending instruments and indices were by far the best ones. FX not so much. Even some automated trend following strategies I used for back testing gave me best results with indices. When looking at FX pairs, I quickly rejected all GBP pairs (among some others) as those were the most chaotic ones with least trending. Seems like we must be using totally different TF's or I don't know. But you're...
Chaotic in the bigger time frames sure. But in the smaller time frames yea 5-15mins thats where it starts to happen.
Even if from how I notice it to be last I checked GPBUSD last years was directional as in goes very zig zag and determined in its direction once it starts. Indices for example are more volatile but at the same time more easy to deal with I noticed since its not as random based. But Indices are not as determined in the direction as GBPUSD even if GBPUSD is more random usually. The hard part is to find when it does initiate that true trend direction and strong one in GBPUSD which can be tricky and not something I truly dwelt into too much. Since thats the reason I prefer Indices tons of trends that are easier to cope with.

However if one finds a way which is profitable to detect that direction when banks and institutions flush the market in GBPUSD then I can see why it can be very profitable. But that also means one must monitor it at least 12h right or even 24h. So the flush from the institutions doesnt happen at specific times. You just never know when it happens and what direction it will take.
Again compared to indices , much harder due to that and more time consuming. So if one likes swing trading, one should for sure try the volatile currencies.

No idea why they market currencies to beginners even. Becomes pure gamble if totally new at trading. No real volume indicators even. If they had real volume in GBPUSD , yea then you could really see that flush live and would been easier too.
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