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What is your weekly return?

  • #341
  • Feb 13, 2012 3:45pm Feb 13, 2012 3:45pm
Well, it seems that we will have a new billionaire in a few time period
Not even the money managers I was looking for perform this numbers consistently...
  • #342
  • Feb 20, 2012 9:33am Feb 20, 2012 9:33am
for all that believe 5% return isn't possible can i point you towards a tab called trades at the top of your screen.

because it very much is....
  • #343
  • Feb 23, 2012 5:44pm Feb 23, 2012 5:44pm
Does compounding only work for scalping?
Everytime I see it mentioned it's always scalping examples..
Why doesn't it work on hourly or 4h or daily?
  • #344
  • Feb 23, 2012 6:08pm Feb 23, 2012 6:08pm
Quoting Proffesor Pi
Does compounding only work for scalping?
Everytime I see it mentioned it's always scalping examples..
Why doesn't it work on hourly or 4h or daily?
because it takes too fucking long to cycle through enough trades to find a new plateau that is real, and not merely a temporary high in a series of wins and losses.

good luck compounding when you trade only a couple of times a week, yet your trading requires at least a dozen or 2 trades before your results begin to roughly express your expectancy.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #345
  • Feb 23, 2012 7:12pm Feb 23, 2012 7:12pm
Quoting nubcake
because it takes too fucking long to cycle through enough trades to find a new plateau that is real, and not merely a temporary high in a series of wins and losses.

good luck compounding when you trade only a couple of times a week, yet your trading requires at least a dozen or 2 trades before your results begin to roughly express your expectancy.
I understand that you're talking about statistics..
But if we don't think about statistics..
Who will make more money in 2 months?
A swing trader or scalper?
I think they should be able to make the same amount.
Scalper gets lots of small trades in and swing trader gets a few big trades.

So even if we cant compound a swing trader because it would take a long time to get 100 trades at least... He can still make as much as the scalper just that we don't know ahead of time from compunding from statistics?

Hope that made sense lol.
  • #346
  • Feb 23, 2012 7:39pm Feb 23, 2012 7:39pm
Quoting Proffesor Pi
I understand that you're talking about statistics..
But if we don't think about statistics..
Who will make more money in 2 months?
A swing trader or scalper?
I think they should be able to make the same amount.
Scalper gets lots of small trades in and swing trader gets a few big trades.

So even if we cant compound a swing trader because it would take a long time to get 100 trades at least... He can still make as much as the scalper just that we don't know ahead of time from compunding from statistics?

Hope that made sense lol.
you think that a scalper doing up to and over a hundred trades a day won't be increasing their stake a LOT faster than a swing trader who takes a few pot shots a few times a month?

a scalper takes thousands of times more cuts out of the pie than a swing trader taking just a few straight slices.

a scalper resolves their expectancy within a single day, unlike a swing trader who might not resolve it within a whole year.

so who makes more, compounds faster, and is all-round better-off? a scalper, or a swing trader? you don't need to do any math. common sense should be all that is required.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #347
  • Feb 23, 2012 7:57pm Feb 23, 2012 7:57pm
Quoting nubcake
you think that a scalper doing up to and over a hundred trades a day won't be increasing their stake a LOT faster than a swing trader who takes a few pot shots a few times a month?

a scalper takes thousands of times more cuts out of the pie than a swing trader taking just a few straight slices.

a scalper resolves their expectancy within a single day, unlike a swing trader who might not resolve it within a whole year.

so who makes more, compounds faster, and is all-round better-off? a scalper, or a swing trader? you don't need to do any math....
Swing trader / position trader are trading 24/5.. Scalpers only a few hours per day (peak sessions).
You seem very biased towards scalpers.. That is why I question if what you say is really true.

Edit: A good swing/position trader also makes sure they make extra money from rollover.
  • #348
  • Feb 23, 2012 8:04pm Feb 23, 2012 8:04pm
Quoting nubcake
you think that a scalper doing up to and over a hundred trades a day won't be increasing their stake a LOT faster than a swing trader who takes a few pot shots a few times a month?

a scalper takes thousands of times more cuts out of the pie than a swing trader taking just a few straight slices.

a scalper resolves their expectancy within a single day, unlike a swing trader who might not resolve it within a whole year.

so who makes more, compounds faster, and is all-round better-off? a scalper, or a swing trader? you don't need to do any...
Definitely agree with this statement. Matter of fact no need to agree it just is true period.

A scalper can make a bunch of small risk trades per day. As long as there probable trades by the end of the day a reasonable target can be achieved.

I read about a scalper that had only 3 losing days in an entire year. I believe he made 100 plus trades a day though.

Higher frequency trading can lead to higher frequency profit taking which obviously will compound your account faster.

Pretty basic stuff!
My trades are 100% profitable 65% of the time!
  • #349
  • Edited Feb 27, 2012 12:20am Feb 26, 2012 10:51pm | Edited Feb 27, 2012 12:20am
Quoting nubcake
you think that a scalper doing up to and over a hundred trades a day won't be increasing their stake a LOT faster than a swing trader who takes a few pot shots a few times a month?

a scalper takes thousands of times more cuts out of the pie than a swing trader taking just a few straight slices.

a scalper resolves their expectancy within a single day, unlike a swing trader who might not resolve it within a whole year.

so who makes more, compounds faster, and is all-round better-off? a scalper, or a swing trader? you don't need to do any...
Of course.

The reason swing trading is more popular for most FF traders is because it's easier for people who aren't very good at trading to sit in long term positions.

The argument that position size can be compounded in a swing trade doesn't stack up against banking profits consistently and increasing position size based on actualized growth of principle. The longer a trade is open, the higher exposure it has to unseen consequences which can result in pullbacks, drawdowns, and reversals.

If someone knows how to trade their risk is not higher on shorter term trades. If someone doesn't know how to trade, they can follow a penny ante method and more often than not, bleed out slowly over a protracted period of time thinking they're still in the game. Time frame is irrelevent.

Either people learn how to trade or not, there really isn't much more to it. It takes going away for around 10,000 hours, studying, watching charts, building personal skills, building your own system, and working and tweaking it until you are consistently profitable in a number of different market conditions.

Anyone coming here looking for an easy way or a short cut isn't going to find it.

.
  • #350
  • Feb 27, 2012 1:34am Feb 27, 2012 1:34am
Quoting Fudomyo
Of course.

The reason swing trading is more popular for most FF traders is because it's easier for people who aren't very good at trading to sit in long term positions.

The argument that position size can be compounded in a swing trade doesn't stack up against banking profits consistently and increasing position size based on actualized growth of principle. The longer a trade is open, the higher exposure it has to unseen consequences which can result in pullbacks, drawdowns, and reversals.

If someone knows how to trade their risk is...

I don't scalp but I take between 2 and 10 trades most days, I jump in after retracements / pullback = low drawdown. I absolutely had to learn to trade like this because I couldn't find the mental strength to hold positions longer than a few hours at most. Plus of course why suffer drawdown once you have learned how the pullbacks work .

1% risk per trade, 2 - 10 trades a day, rinse and repeat, it soon adds up.
  • #351
  • Edited 2:47am Feb 27, 2012 2:21am | Edited 2:47am
Quoting jag1966
I don't scalp but I take between 2 and 10 trades most days, I jump in after retracements / pullback = low drawdown. I absolutely had to learn to trade like this because I couldn't find the mental strength to hold positions longer than a few hours at most. Plus of course why suffer drawdown once you have learned how the pullbacks work .

1% risk per trade, 2 - 10 trades a day, rinse and repeat, it soon adds up.
Exactly.

I do about 10-15 trades a day, so in the same range basically. Maybe my outlook on scalping is a bit different than the classic definition of it. I don't trade for 2-3 pips at a time. Anything 30 pips or under is a scalp for me.

I probably should also clarify that there are some quite good swing traders I know as well, so it's not that swing trading in of itself isn't profitable. I used to do more of it before the markets got choppier this past year, but the change in conditions actually made me tighten up my trading considerably.

Once I saw the increase in my ROI, and not having to leave positions open overnight during uncertain times, I slept a lot easier.

The other thing is energy spent scaling in. I can go in larger on the outset with a tighter SL knowing the trades are hit and run, so it feels like less work and thought invested, even though it entails a bit more screen time daily.


.
  • #352
  • Feb 27, 2012 2:35am Feb 27, 2012 2:35am
Quoting Proffesor Pi
Does compounding only work for scalping?
Everytime I see it mentioned it's always scalping examples..
Why doesn't it work on hourly or 4h or daily?
of course compounding works for any method that has a positive expectancy.

Quoting Proffesor Pi
I understand that you're talking about statistics..
But if we don't think about statistics..
Who will make more money in 2 months?
A swing trader or scalper?
I think they should be able to make the same amount.
Scalper gets lots of small trades in and swing trader gets a few big trades.

So even if we cant compound a swing trader because it would take a long time to get 100 trades at least... He can still make as much as the scalper just that we don't know ahead of time from compunding from statistics?

Hope that made sense lol.
Well, a successful scalper can compound faster, that is why he would make more money over 2 months. But of course it depends on the edge. If the scalper's edge is small and the swing trader's edge is big, then the swing trader will come out ahead.

However, as others suggested. Scalping is much more difficult to do profitably than swing trading, just because trading costs are relatively higher per trade, and you have a much harder time overcoming the trading costs when scalping.
  • #353
  • Feb 27, 2012 2:51am Feb 27, 2012 2:51am
Quoting Fudomyo
Time frame is irrelevent.
I would disagree. Methods that work on higher time-frames might not work on lower ones, cause of higher relative trading costs.
  • #354
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:18am Feb 27, 2012 3:18am
Quoting Fudomyo
Exactly.

I do about 10-15 trades a day, so in the same range basically. Maybe my outlook on scalping is a bit different than the classic definition of it. I don't trade for 2-3 pips at a time. Anything 30 pips or under is a scalp for me.

I probably should also clarify that there are some quite good swing traders I know as well, so it's not that swing trading in of itself isn't profitable. I used to do more of it before the markets got choppier this past year, but the change in conditions actually made me tighten up my trading considerably....
We think alike mate. Between 6 and 40 pip targets myself, I take what the SR levels offer me. No scaling here either, in and out building position size as my capital and balls grow bigger lol.

Happy trading mate.
  • #355
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:18am Feb 27, 2012 3:18am
Quoting Custos
I would disagree. Methods that work on higher time-frames might not work on lower ones, cause of higher relative trading costs.
Time frame is irrelevent.
  • #356
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:21am Feb 27, 2012 3:21am
Quoting Custos
I would disagree. Methods that work on higher time-frames might not work on lower ones, cause of higher relative trading costs.
That depends greatly on your stake, your broker, and how you amortize your cost of entry against profit targets.

With an MM, you may well have to take into account higher spreads, slippage, misquotes, server disconnects, whatever, so trading for a few pips can be a riskier proposition.

With a tier 2 ECN, you have to take into account commission (but lower spreads), and don't have to deal with a lot of the other nonsense, so typically can move a trade into profit more quickly.

For example, let's say you place a 20 lot EU trade, the round trip commission is approximately $110 w/ 1 pip (or less) spread, so cost of entry is $310. This means price needs to move 2 pips to clear your cost of entry. Therefore, on a 10 pip move you can typically clear $1,690. This is a perfectly reasonable entry cost to profit ratio on a smaller timeframe trade.
  • #357
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:25am Feb 27, 2012 3:25am
Quoting Fudomyo
That depends greatly on your stake, your broker, and how you amortize your cost of entry against profit targets.

With an MM, you may well have to take into account higher spreads, slippage, misquotes, server disconnects, whatever, so trading for a few pips can be a riskier proposition.

With a tier 2 ECN, you have to take into account commission (but lower spreads), and don't have to deal with a lot of the other nonsense, so typically can move a trade into profit more quickly.

For example, let's say you place a 20 lot EU trade, the round...
  • #358
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:26am Feb 27, 2012 3:26am
Quoting jag1966
Time frame is irrelevent.
Well, let me give you this example: you trade maybe on the 15 min time-frame and achieve an average profit of 10 pips per trade.

Now let's say this is gbp/usd with a 2 pip spread and maybe a 1 pip slippage per trade = 3 pip trading cost. 10 pips - 3 pips = 7 pips net profit per trade.

Now if you trade the 1 minutes time-frame with the same system, you would maybe only get an average profit of 2-3 pips. Including the trading costs, you would be at a loss (on average).

That's just an example, but it clarifies why you can't trade a lot of systems on any time-frame, cause trading costs will eat up your profits.

cheers.
  • #359
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:30am Feb 27, 2012 3:30am
Quoting Custos
Well, let me give you this example: you trade maybe on the 15 min time-frame and achieve an average profit of 10 pips per trade.

Now let's say this is gbp/usd with a 2 pip spread and maybe a 1 pip slippage per trade = 3 pip trading cost. 10 pips - 3 pips = 7 pips net profit per trade.

Now if you trade the 1 minutes time-frame with the same system, you would maybe only get an average profit of 2-3 pips. Including the trading costs, you would be at a loss (on average).

That's just an example, but it clarifies why you can't trade a lot of...
All that tells me is that the m1 tf isn't worth trading unless the RR is correctly calculated. Like fundy says do the math then trade accordingly. M5 up is all good.
  • #360
  • Feb 27, 2012 3:37am Feb 27, 2012 3:37am
Quoting jag1966
All that tells me is that the m1 tf isn't worth trading unless the RR is correctly calculated. Like fundy says do the math then trade accordingly. M5 up is all good.
Well, at one point systems will stop working no matter how you change the win-rate & R:R, cause there is not enough profits available per trade to cover the trading costs per trade.
That is why the time-frame matters for any system.
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