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What is your weekly return?

  • #41
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:28pm Apr 12, 2011 3:28pm
my take on it, i believe is all relative.
a % return means nothing.

i'll give you an example with my self.

i have made small increments on my "working capital" as i call it.
i started with 1000 usd to learn to trade.
granted im very smart and quick learner, plus i dont give up.

i have increased my working capital by 500 usd, what that means is after 1000 originally and 1500 now i bank any profits beyond that. by percentage standards
my return is

50-70% weekly, am i supper human? no, if you have more capital with one trade you can take home 700 usd and i make that in a week 70% for me
might be 10% for you.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #42
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:30pm Apr 12, 2011 3:30pm
It's only been two weeks but my semi-auto EA has been pulling in 11% a week.

http://www.mt4i.com/users/rattrader/stats

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...2&postcount=14

Do I believe this will continue? I certainly hope so...
  • #43
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:30pm Apr 12, 2011 3:30pm
Quoting Custos
Maybe I have a longer attention span than you, so I could endure 15 years? Also maybe I already performed enough trades to be sure of the consistency? I think everything above index market rate is worth time and effort.
so for you it's an ego deal. aiming low above the index isn't worth writing about. that is literally aiming to be marginally above-average. one would be better-off working for someone and letting them be the bearer of all risk and just keep taking the pay cheques almost risk free.

if you are happy with what you have then power to you. it's not for me. the reward is not worth the risk (time, effort, and of course money).

having the mindset of a giant when in reality you are an ant will get you nowhere. *shrug*
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #44
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:33pm Apr 12, 2011 3:33pm
Quoting nubcake
so for you it's an ego deal. aiming low above the index isn't worth writing about. that is literally aiming to be marginally above-average. one would be better-off working for someone and letting them be the bearer of all risk and just keep taking the pay cheques almost risk free.

if you are happy with what you have then power to you. it's not for me. the reward is not worth the risk (time, effort, and of course money).

having the mindset of a giant when in reality you are an ant will get you nowhere. *shrug*
you are right. Good that you showed me the light: all users in this forum make thousands of percent a year. And everybody is a billionair in 10 years.

Now I can see the reality. Thank you
  • #45
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:41pm Apr 12, 2011 3:41pm
Quoting DanUK
I'm with you on this one Custos. It's all well and good saying 5% a month is just 0.2% per day etc but achieving it is another thing altogether.

If anyone is willing to back up their claims of world-class returns with evidence I would be happy to listen but until then I feel that talk is cheap.

And whilst I am not levying this at anyone in particular it would seem to me that Forex Factory is either full of trading wizards or plain old bullsh***ers!
Someone else thinking that 5% a month is "world class returns" This is really blowing me away. I think for longer term traders 5% may be big, but for intraday trading it's nothing.

Let's assume somebody risks 1% of their account per trade. A very small amount in my opinion. Say their risk/reward ratio is only 1:1. That's 5 winning trades per month to get to 5%! 5 winning trades trades per month! I have over 100 trades in the last 2 weeks alone.

I rarely use more than a 10 pip stop, usually 8 pips, and close trades anywhere from 20-200 pips. Id say average is around 40 pips making it a 5:1 risk/reward ratio. I risk 2-3% of my account per trade based on that 8 pip stop- do the math fellas. And I am nowhere near the best traders in that thread I posted.

With an 8 pip stop, risking 2-3% of your account, how many pips does it take to get to 5%? 12 pips per month....

I made almost 100 pips today. Now do you see why you guys sound silly?

Oh and the proof you are looking for? There is 34,000 posts of it. Go ahead and look at my attachments. You will see many 50-100 pip trades posted the last few weeks with less than a 10 pip stop loss, in real time. Check out my trades from today too and you will see.

So instead of arguing what can't be done, start focusing on your trading because if you can't make 5% a month after that many years of trading it's time to hang up the shoes and go open a savings account. I would not be spending my free time trading for such small gains.
Cap
  • #46
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:44pm Apr 12, 2011 3:44pm
you are now suggesting that because they are in different fields that they are not valid examples? so, this means that because you are a trader you can only fashion yourself on other traders? that's semi-fair, but only in the respect that you are fixated on the meager % returns of hedge funds and hence it suits your framework of what to expect from your own trading. the problem is that the possibilities from trading do not come purely from what hedge funds do. but if you think that 50% on 10,000 in a year is a great return then that is what you will think, believe, and aim for.

and diversification? of course they are going to diversify! that doesn't negate the fact that they are still behemoths that CAN NOT push a large percentage of their capital into markets.

get your $10,000 and go to your local shops. try to buy $10,000 of the local newspaper and see how well you fair. you can't. oh, but you can diversify, so maybe you decide to also try to buy all of the fruit in the fruit section... but even then you still have more money than they have available stock and now you can't manage all of the fruit and local papers in your possession... what now... and so on and so on.

i'm sure you can debunk that example, but i care not as i'm tired and you either 'get it' or you don't.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #47
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:48pm Apr 12, 2011 3:48pm
Quoting Custos
you are right. Good that you showed me the light: all users in this forum make thousands of percent a year. And everybody is a billionair in 10 years.

Now I can see the reality. Thank you
exactly. and my bike goes 3,000 kph after accelerating for 1 minute.

the terrible thing here is that you are actually serious. some day you might get what i'm saying. either way, honestly, good luck with your trading and i hope you reach your goals, whatever they may be.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #48
  • Apr 12, 2011 3:58pm Apr 12, 2011 3:58pm
Quoting The Captain
Someone else thinking that 5% a month is "world class returns"...
Well absolutely amen to that Captain.

I am always baffled with the obsession for retail traders to compare all retail traders with the pros. I'll be perfectly honest, I know little about how the pros trade but I can be sure of two things:

1.Their position sizes are a fraction of their availabe equity. They will be trading nothing close to 1 or 2% risk per trade.

2.There is and will be retail traders who are better, more rounded and more consistent performers than all but the best in the big trading houses. Weight of numbers just makes it probable.


The logic that an intraday trader cannot consistently hit 5% a month stands up to no logic whatsoever. Risking 2% per trade, you are talking about being 3 1:1 trades up on the game at the end of the month. After all that sweat and toil. If you can't do that, you have no edge or no control. It isn't just plausible, it's 100% certain that there are many, many traders capable of that feat. If it wasn't, what's the point of retail trading at all?

People really shouldn't be judging others by their own standards.
  • #49
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:02pm Apr 12, 2011 4:02pm
Quoting DanUK
I'm with you on this one Custos. It's all well and good saying 5% a month is just 0.2% per day etc but achieving it is another thing altogether.

If anyone is willing to back up their claims of world-class returns with evidence I would be happy to listen but until then I feel that talk is cheap.

And whilst I am not levying this at anyone in particular it would seem to me that Forex Factory is either full of trading wizards or plain old bullsh***ers!
The trades are in that thread as they happen, setups that happen day after day after day. Case in point: http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=34172 I can't speak for the Captain of course but I doubt he had more than a 20 pip stop loss for the GBP/USD trade and the EU would have had probably less. Those 2 trades alone at a 2% risk would have picked up around 12% today. Of course there are losing trades but the winners are so much bigger and more frequent than the losers that you come out on top day after day. I'm not saying a new trader should jump in and try to make that kind of money because like anything else it takes practice, but dismissing it entirely as bulls*** is ignorance.

I'm at 0.5% risk per trade so that I can practice and not worry about it, but even on that meagre risk I am averaging now between 2 and 3% a day but its taken hard work to get there and I will be putting up the risk soon to 1%.

I am here to learn how to trade, not how to invest.

EDIT: Sorry Captain didn't notice your post answering this one until I'd posted. I made your stop loss bigger
  • #50
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:10pm Apr 12, 2011 4:10pm
Custos, you have your occupation down as "Trader".

How large is your equity pool that you can trade for a living off 10-20% a year?

I would need at least £300-400k and if I had that much, I doubt i'd still be risking 2% per trade.....
  • #51
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:21pm Apr 12, 2011 4:21pm
Quoting Trotty
Well absolutely amen to that Captain.
Funny to see you in these parts! I don't venture much outside of EO's and Ken's threads and I'm now realizing why. So you make more than 0.2% a day trading intraday? I don't believe it!

Quoting ohammond
Those 2 trades alone at a 2% risk would have picked up around 12% today. Of course there are losing trades but the winners are so much bigger and more frequent than the losers that you come out on top day after day.
And I'm still pissed I didn't drag my ass out of bed sooner and was 10 pips late to that GU trade

That's exactly it though. Yes we have losing trades. But at the risk/reward ratio that we trade I could have 5 losers to 1 winner and still blow past 5% per month! As one becomes a better trader that ratio will get better and right now I'm probably at 8 wins for every 1 loss.

Trotty brings up a good point. If you guys are trading for a living and can't make 5% a month you must have some insane account sizes!
Cap
  • #52
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:32pm Apr 12, 2011 4:32pm
Quoting The Captain
Someone else thinking that 5% a month is "world class returns"...
Posting in a forum is not proof of anything. Unless you can actually prove your claims then there is no reason for anyone to believe you.

As far as hanging up my shoes... I don't think so. You'd be lucky to get 3% pa at the moment so I'm quite happy with my current returns (which by the way are more than 5% per month).

As I said before... talk is cheap. Prove your claims and I'll change my opinion.
  • #53
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:35pm Apr 12, 2011 4:35pm
Quoting ohammond
I'm not saying a new trader should jump in and try to make that kind of money because like anything else it takes practice, but dismissing it entirely as bulls*** is ignorance.
It's not ignorance at all. It is simply disbelief. As in I do not believe you. If you are making so much money how come you are not teaching Soros or Buffet how it's done?

And are you prepared to really backup your claim or is this just more talk.
  • #54
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:36pm Apr 12, 2011 4:36pm
Quoting DanUK
It's all well and good saying 5% a month is just 0.2% per day etc but achieving it is another thing altogether. If anyone is willing to back up their claims of world-class returns
Quoting DanUK
.. I'm quite happy with my current returns (which by the way are more than 5% per month).
The guy who doesn't believe 5% months are possible, makes more than 5% a month!!!

You are an idiot!
Cap
  • #55
  • Apr 12, 2011 4:46pm Apr 12, 2011 4:46pm
Quoting The Captain
The guy who doesn't believe 5% months are possible, makes more than 5% a month!!!

You are an idiot!
I didn't say I don't believe 5% a month is possible. I said I didn't think it was necessarily consistently achievable so get your facts right twat.
  • #56
  • Apr 12, 2011 5:03pm Apr 12, 2011 5:03pm
Quoting DanUK
I didn't say I don't believe 5% a month is possible. I said I didn't think it was necessarily consistently achievable so get your facts right twat.
Ok well I am starting to see why you guys think the way you do about gains. It's obvious that gains from long term trend trading aren't nearly what they are intraday. I checked out your blog and I see you have made 14 trades this year with typically a 80-100 pip stop. I don't think a person could ever illegitimate live off those kinds of trades, where in the system I trade there are many who trade full time. I have made more trades in the last 2 days than you have all year and I'm using 10 pip stops. This is the difference.

Even though myself and Trotty have just shown you through math that we need 12 pips per month for a 5% gain you still "need proof".. You need proof that someone makes 12 pips per month, trading intraday? Really??

I don't see how posting my trades as I take them, with a chart showing my entry, and my 10 pip stoploss, and price usually going 50-100 pips is not "proof" of the massive gains that are possible with intraday trading.
Cap
  • #57
  • Edited 5:43pm Apr 12, 2011 5:18pm | Edited 5:43pm
Quoting The Captain
Ok well I am starting to see why you guys think the way you do about gains....

To Nubcake and The Captain....I applaud your efforts but you are better served focusing on your current successful trajectory than dealing with these people, they will never get it. As the very apt. and brilliant saying goes..." Everybody thinks their opinion matters, it doesn't....don't argue with a nobody, a farmer doesn't bother telling a pig his breath smells like sh!t ".

Best of luck to you gents.
  • #58
  • Apr 12, 2011 5:24pm Apr 12, 2011 5:24pm
Quoting DanUK
It's not ignorance at all. It is simply disbelief. As in I do not believe you. If you are making so much money how come you are not teaching Soros or Buffet how it's done?

And are you prepared to really backup your claim or is this just more talk.
LOL now that is silly. I am averaging between 80 and 120 pips per day to make that 2-3% because I am only using half a percent risk per trade. I watch 3 currencies for setups so thats an average of around 30-40 pips per day per currency. I trade for around 8 hours a day. If I couldn't get 30-40 pips a day on each currency day trading with the amount of practice I've had I would be ashamed of myself. As the Captain has said we are talking a big difference between a 100 pip stop loss and a 10-20 pip stop loss.
  • #59
  • Apr 12, 2011 5:57pm Apr 12, 2011 5:57pm
Quoting deepblue44
To Nubcake and The Captain....I applaud your efforts but you are better served focusing on your current successful trajectory than dealing with these people, they will never get it. As the very apt. and brilliant saying goes..." Everybody thinks their opinion matters, it doesn't....don't argue with a nobody, a farmer doesn't bother telling a pig his breath smells like sh!t ".

Best of luck to you gents.
Appreciate it. Very good advice but I do not want beginners reading this thread thinking that 5% a month is unreasonable. 5% per day is easily doable, but it requires countless hours of dedication, and chart time. (and not arguing with people on forums)

Quoting DanUK
If you are making so much money how come you are not teaching Soros or Buffet how it's done?
OK Dan, let me just pick up the phone and call Warren. I'm sure he'd love to hear about candlestick patterns and moving average touch trades, in the retail forex market.

I'm glad others in this thread are starting to realize that you are ridiculous.
Cap
  • #60
  • Apr 12, 2011 6:29pm Apr 12, 2011 6:29pm
Hi Everyone,

I think they key here is the different approaches to trading. So from that persepctive it is quite a positive thread to show new traders that you can indeed make money trading forex and trading many different ways.

I see what you are saying about short term intraday trading and understand that the maths work.

I think the main issue here is that different people have different approaches and the longer term traders find it hard to believe that 5% a week is easily achieved consistently. I guess this is because longer term traders will only take maybe a few trades a month so to achieve those returns pretty much everytrade would need to be profitable and the risk a little too high.

Whereas from an intraday perspective you may take many trades a day and assuming you risk even less than one % you can still stand to make more than 1% per day and lets assume you are right 60% of the time so 3 days of 5 you can then make lets say 2% on the days that you are right and lose less as you stated on the days you are wrong and hence come out with those sorts of numbers.

This is completely understandable and believable.

My position was merely that of caution in the beginning. This is in the rookie forum so I thought it may be best for someone new to trading taking it a little slow and learnign how to read a chart before getting down into the shorter term time frames where they have less time to think etc etc.

But in anycase I do appreciate what you are all saying. I would however say that you should realize that you are obviously good at what you do which is fantastic, but new traders should take it slow and learn there art form before they truly enter the battle.

I hope my post doesn't annoy anyone... just my thoughts...
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