What does it mean when Indicators repaint? | Crypto Craft

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What does it mean when Indicators repaint?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jun 12, 2009 3:17pm Jun 12, 2009 3:17pm
Hi, could someone please explain to me a few things about what it means when an indicator is said to repaint .

1. What does it mean?
2. How does it compare to one that does not and how can you tell the difference?
3. Is a indicator that repaints usless?

Thanks for any input.
  • #2
  • Jun 12, 2009 3:29pm Jun 12, 2009 3:29pm
It cheats basically, live it'll lag but after the event it'll tell you exactly whats going to happen, all indicators do 1 or the other sadly.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #3
  • Jun 12, 2009 3:40pm Jun 12, 2009 3:40pm
Quoting shjensen8
Hi, could someone please explain to me a few things about what it means when an indicator is said to repaint .

1. What does it mean?

Thanks for any input.
1. Retrade

Indicators are just good description/confirmation tools, but they are not predictive tools.
  • #4
  • Jun 12, 2009 3:59pm Jun 12, 2009 3:59pm
I understand that Indicators do not tell the future. That is why I am confused about Indicators that are said to 'Repaint' and some are said to 'Not Repaint'

Since all indicators tell you basically what just happened, what is the difference between the two?

When someones says an Indicator does not repaint, what does that mean compared to one that does?
  • #5
  • Jun 12, 2009 4:13pm Jun 12, 2009 4:13pm
Quoting shjensen8
I understand that Indicators do not tell the future. That is why I am confused about Indicators that are said to 'Repaint' and some are said to 'Not Repaint'

Since all indicators tell you basically what just happened, what is the difference between the two?

When someones says an Indicator does not repaint, what does that mean compared to one that does?

A repainting indicator will lag live then suddenly it called the bottom perfectly, looks great for back testing but no use live.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #6
  • Jun 12, 2009 9:42pm Jun 12, 2009 9:42pm
Don't know what everyone else would say it means, but I have always thought of it as those indicators that actually shift location on the chart. When you put some indicators into metatrader for instance and scroll backward in time they actually move to different locations in comparison to where they were at when looking at them live. To be honest, I can't name one now, but I saw them back when I was downloading every other indicator on this forum thinking they would help. I do not know why this repainting occurs, as I figure most are based on previous x, xx, or xxx amount of periods worth of price averages? Also, minor repainting can occur based on the PRESENT close of a period. I wouldn't consider this repainting, but it can be deceptive depending on how you trade.

A simple MA will not repaint, by my definition. Others who hold a vendetta against MAs may say so just to libel the poor thing, as if it hasn't had enough of a hard time. Most MA based indicators are dependable in terms of not repainting. They are all based on averages of the past, what you see is what they are. Therefore, if I say to put a single 300 MA on a 4hr graph and look at the past 18 months on the EUR/JPY, you can believe honestly that what you see is what happened, and not only because someone interacted with the markets live during those times says so.

Further, you can confirm the figures by using a spreadsheet and entering in your own data, you can often get within 1 or 2 pips going back months and months in the spreadsheet from what you see on the chart. If you can't recreate an indicators numbers/figures in a spreadsheet, then there is likely something fishy going on. Therefore, I would stick to things based strictly off of consistent past averages.

Direct comparisons can't be made. There is nothing to really base it on? Nobody has ever actually proved, from what I have seen drifting around, that it was an indicator that was making them money.

In terms of the other question, no, they aren't useless. Also, sure, they are useless. Both are equally right responses and both are also entirely wrong. If you can make one of the indicators, help you trade, then it is good, if not, then it is bad. What others do with them is completely irrelevent unless you are copying someone else's every move.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #7
  • Jun 13, 2009 6:58am Jun 13, 2009 6:58am
Quoting shjensen8
Hi, could someone please explain to me a few things about what it means when an indicator is said to repaint .

1. What does it mean?
2. How does it compare to one that does not and how can you tell the difference?
3. Is a indicator that repaints usless?

Thanks for any input.

Hello shjensen
Actually Indicators are indicating the trend, Indicators are tools for analyzing the market trend, not any particular level ,they can help you to forecast some technical levels but not a exact level. how can any indicator predict any exact level. some time some indicators work and few indicators don't work, it can not be possible that every time in any situation each and every indicator work.

Ok
  • #8
  • Jun 14, 2009 4:45pm Jun 14, 2009 4:45pm
Quoting shjensen8
Hi, could someone please explain to me a few things about what it means when an indicator is said to repaint .

1. What does it mean?
2. How does it compare to one that does not and how can you tell the difference?
3. Is a indicator that repaints usless?

Thanks for any input.
In my opinion:

1. It means that an indicator is changing an outcome re-painting its historical data - for example all multi time frames repaint, Zig-Zag, CoG repaints.

2. The main difference is that live signals are less reliable - you cannot sufficiently backtest indicator and system which means that your systems are less reliable = less profitable.

3. sometimes not if you know how to use it properly or reduce/remove repainting - ZIg Zag is useful showing the length of a move, I dont know if there is a non - repainting CoG version - this indicator is calculated dynamically, also in all MTF-s repainting is unavoidable. I think - at last I dont know how to avoid it

D. S.
  • #9
  • Dec 15, 2010 8:32pm Dec 15, 2010 8:32pm
I think there's no indicator that no repaint, all indicator are repaint..just sharing
  • #10
  • Dec 16, 2010 5:51am Dec 16, 2010 5:51am
Quoting hnsx99
I think there's no indicator that no repaint, all indicator are repaint..just sharing
I don't think that is true. Some indicators will repaint to some extent until the current bar is closed, the ones to avoid are the ones that look too good to be true, ie. pinpoint an exact reversal.

There are many Indicators that do not repaint, they will lag but it's really down to how useful they are to you in formulating a trading system around them.

Just my 2 cents
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #11
  • Dec 16, 2010 6:33am Dec 16, 2010 6:33am
everyone is so wrong or speaking lame CRAP except StockJay and institute, and partially shabs19 (only because you were half-assed at the start which lost you points, and weren't really accurate in your ending).

a repainting indicator is an indicator, as mentioned, that changes the information it is displaying about past data as new data comes in... e.g. the zig-zag indicator lines will change positions for past placements as new information comes in.

turveyd : your answer wasn't really an answer. it was more a half-answer half-truth without really qualifying anything or answering the question. i think you might have just been taking the piss as i'm sure you do know what's what.

kihl : flying monkeys shoe at red doorway tokyo... your answer is gibberish and a waste of internet.

carl12 : not all indicators have anything to do with trends.

hnsx99 : thanks for sharing. please don't again. you are purely boosting your post count for some reason and you are probably just another dormant username for some lame-ass scammer waiting to pounce on newbies. lame.

...

this thread is old. why was it revived? goddamn you people irk me.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #12
  • Edited 2:05pm Dec 18, 2010 1:58pm | Edited 2:05pm
Guys,

I'm new to Forex Factory and forums in general so I'm not sure where I am or am suppose to be.I desperately need a DIFINITIVE answer to a couple of questions. Do the following indicators repaint and if so would it make a tremendous difference when trading the daily charts since you have to wait for the bar to close anyway.The indicators are Beginners Alert and 3 Bar Swing v2 .If anyone finds this ...Thanks so very much and God Bless Us All !

Bojangles
  • #13
  • Dec 18, 2010 2:55pm Dec 18, 2010 2:55pm
Quoting Bojangles
Guys,

I'm new to Forex Factory and forums in general so I'm not sure where I am or am suppose to be.I desperately need a DIFINITIVE answer to a couple of questions. Do the following indicators repaint and if so would it make a tremendous difference when trading the daily charts since you have to wait for the bar to close anyway.The indicators are Beginners Alert and 3 Bar Swing v2 .If anyone finds this ...Thanks so very much and God Bless Us All !

Bojangles
Open up Strategy Tester. Install one of the sample ea's. Tick visual mode and start test running slow. Install your indicators and watch to see if they repaint.
We are all One. Be present. Be the Observer
  • #14
  • Dec 18, 2010 3:06pm Dec 18, 2010 3:06pm
Hello!

I see you have three questions there. OK.... answer

1) It means it is an indicator that gives you a false indication. Lets say prices start going down, then the indicator you using gives you a SELL signal, but then prices go up, all over sudden the signal that was displaying SELL changes to BUY instead of just remaining how it was (SELL).

2) The one that does not repaints remain the same regardless the price change. Lets use the same example as above. Lets say prices went down and it displayed SELL, but all over sudden the prices went up, your signal displaying SELL remains SELL despite price change. So lets assume prices continue going up, then it should display another signal displaying BUY but your previous signal of SELL remained the same.

3) Yes, repainting indicators are useless. Mainly because it does not have good mechanism of reading the market.

I hope that helps!

Cheers
Time Is Money
  • #15
  • Dec 25, 2010 4:41am Dec 25, 2010 4:41am
Quoting institute
In my opinion:

1. It means that an indicator is changing an outcome re-painting its historical data - for example all multi time frames repaint, Zig-Zag, CoG repaints.

2. The main difference is that live signals are less reliable - you cannot sufficiently backtest indicator and system which means that your systems are less reliable = less profitable.

3. sometimes not if you know how to use it properly or reduce/remove repainting - ZIg Zag is useful showing the length of a move, I dont know if there is a non - repainting CoG version - this...

This is a lot of folklore about repainting indicators on FF in general and in this thread in particular. The posting I am quoting seems to be the best and simplest answer. Once you understand indicators, you will know that the new bar usually repaints. As for the others that repaint more than one, there is a way to compensate for the repainting. Repainting doesn't always mean useless - rather be cautious and don't always believe what you see without careful thought.
  • #16
  • Dec 26, 2010 10:12am Dec 26, 2010 10:12am
Quoting shjensen8
Hi, could someone please explain to me a few things about what it means when an indicator is said to repaint .

1. What does it mean?
2. How does it compare to one that does not and how can you tell the difference?
3. Is a indicator that repaints usless?

Thanks for any input.

1. It means during the current bar it will give a signal one way or the other. If the market moves against the signal it will "repaint" to show that the indy is now going with the market. IE hindsight is 20/20.

2. If one indy repaints they likely all do. Good luck finding one that works 100% of the time.

3. yes and no. Is a car that doesn't drive itself useless? It comes down to the person driving right? What makes you think trading is any different?

Indys are a tool. You are the driver your fate is in your hands not the indy.
  • #17
  • Dec 30, 2010 1:39pm Dec 30, 2010 1:39pm
I wasn't completely satisfied with my earlier answer. Here is another way of thinking about repainting.

The current bar is constantly updating the Low, High and Close values with new values. The only value that doesn't change is Open. That is repainting. I can't imagine anybody saying that is a bad thing; that's just the way things work. Naturally any indicator that relies on LHC values may change their values - they have to be correct. I can't see how that can be a bad thing; it would be worse if they didn't change.

There are other indicators displayed on previous bars that may change with the new ticks on the current bar such as Fractals. Once you understand how they work, a decision can be made as to how to use them. To not use them at all because they repaint is not always a smart choice. Similarly for MTF indicators - they repaint, but many people find them useful because they understand how they work.

Does that mean that all repainting is harmless? I can think of one example that repainted up to 50 bars of values. The only rationale I could come up with is that the creator wanted to make the perfect looking indicator and was deceptive in not explaining how it really worked. Without looking at the code, it was difficult to determine what the extent of the repainting was in that instance.

The bottom line really is understanding how the indicator works and using it accordingly.
  • #18
  • Edited 3:00am Mar 6, 2016 12:32am | Edited 3:00am
Quoting CodeMeister
... The bottom line really is understanding how the indicator works and using it accordingly.
DAX30. Enrty per zz, exit @set dollar profit.
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  • #19
  • Apr 2, 2016 12:00am Apr 2, 2016 12:00am
1. What does it mean?
The results you see are not real, the indicator changes the values of the past bars or histogram so it looks like it works but it doesn't, the past is "repainted" in every tick.

2. How does it compare to one that does not and how can you tell the difference?
I usually leave the indicator working for an hour or so in the 1M chart, then screenshot and then reload.

3. Is a indicator that repaints usless?
For me, yes. But some people use them for the value they get in real time, and not the past.
  • #20
  • Edited 1:31pm Nov 6, 2016 1:15pm | Edited 1:31pm
Visual examples of repainting and non-repainting indicators

Regression lines are an example of an indicator/study that 'repaints'. In the first screenshot below, candle 'B' closes above the high of the swing low candle 'A'. But looking retrospectively at that point the chart, you might think "Whew! I would not have bought into a losing trade here because (1) the 'trend' is down (regression channel is sloping downward) and (2) price was overbought (candle 'B' closes above the regression channel)":
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: PPI 022.png Size: 29 KB

But the reality is that, at the time candle 'B' closed, the regression channel would have looked like the one plotted in the second screenshot. The 'trend' was up and candle 'B' closed around the channel's midpoint:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: PPI 024.png Size: 28 KB

Bollinger bands also provide a way of showing how many standard deviations price is above/below a plotted mean value. But they don't repaint: price, with respect to the band at point 'B', looks exactly the same now as it did at the time candle 'B' closed. See the third screenshot:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: PPI 025.png Size: 36 KB

(Note: I'm not necessarily recommending that this is a good way to trade. I'm merely using it as an example to illustrate the difference between repainting and non-repainting indicators, and why you can't use repainting indicators to reliably perform a visual backtest).

As was mentioned in post #13, you can use MT4's strategy tester to see the extent to which any indicator repaints. Here is a worked example.
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