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Trading without a stop loss!

  • #41
  • Jun 25, 2008 8:50am Jun 25, 2008 8:50am
The fact's are...
There're traders who uses SL and growing their balance with profits
There're traders who don't use SL and growing their balance with profits,
There're traders who uses SL and draining their balance,
There're traders who don't use SL and draining their balance...

There're trades without SL and gaining profits,
There're trades with Sl and gaining profits,
There're trades without SL and looses,
There're trades with SL and looses...

So..?

They're depending on a lot of things, and things are not constantly the same there're changing also...

But do not forget and deny this..
letting minus runs and accompanied only by the hope to turn back...
is the #1 trader killer

Stop loosing is a must... use them with automatic stop loss or manual stop... but both must well detail-planned, and apllied wisely... (now, that last words are mostly hard to do ... mostly failed or forgotten)
  • #42
  • Jun 25, 2008 8:55am Jun 25, 2008 8:55am
Quoting RaR
The fact's are...
There're traders who uses SL and growing their balance with profits
There're traders who don't use SL and growing their balance with profits,
There're traders who uses SL and draining their balance,
There're traders who don't use SL and draining their balance...

There're trades without SL and gaining profits,
There're trades with Sl and gaining profits,
There're trades without SL and looses,
There're trades with SL and looses...

So..?

They're depending on a lot of things, and things are not constantly the same there're changing also...

But do not forget and deny this..
letting minus runs and accompanied only by the hope to turn back...
is the #1 trader killer

Stop loosing is a must... use them with automatic stop loss or manual stop... but both must well detail-planned, and apllied wisely... (now, that last words are mostly hard to do ... mostly failed or forgotten)
it's all about a perfect risk management, and knowing when you are really in danger, and also, it's about stopping over trading.
  • #43
  • Jul 19, 2009 1:04pm Jul 19, 2009 1:04pm
I personally trade without stoploss (i put 400pips just in case internet connection go down or any other crazy thing can happen), i close positions in profit, position in loss, using fixed tp and fixed sl is not the only way to trade, i know that sometime market will give me only 10 pips, some other time will give me 100+ pips, and sometime the max it can give me is a loss, but don't let decide to a fixed tp/sl when to close the trade, you decide when to enter, you should decide where to exit, this is the best trading to me!
  • #44
  • Jul 19, 2009 1:40pm Jul 19, 2009 1:40pm
I use volatility adjusted sliding stops for momentum strategies, usually with no take profit, why limit your upside? For mean-reversion strategies obviously a take profit is needed. Bottom line is I test different trade management strategies and pick the one that works best for a given strategy.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #45
  • Jul 19, 2009 2:58pm Jul 19, 2009 2:58pm
Quoting tunera
I personally trade without stoploss (i put 400pips just in case internet connection go down or any other crazy thing can happen), i close positions in profit, position in loss, using fixed tp and fixed sl is not the only way to trade, i know that sometime market will give me only 10 pips, some other time will give me 100+ pips, and sometime the max it can give me is a loss, but don't let decide to a fixed tp/sl when to close the trade, you decide when to enter, you should decide where to exit, this is the best trading to me!
So, risk 400 pips to make 10!!!
IMO it seems that using such a strategy does not use the trading account very efficiently. Why have a 300-400 pip on-going draw down when you can have a closer stop loss and use your account for potentially more profitable set-ups. Surely this would be trading your account to its better potential.
  • #46
  • Jul 19, 2009 3:41pm Jul 19, 2009 3:41pm
Stops have saved my a$$ 3 times: 2 power outages and a computer melt down.

One overly ambitious week I had been trading the Euro,N America,and Asian markets all week (plus emini was going nuts) and was really exhausted by the time friday rolled around.

Forgot to put on stops,had 15 x 100k lots on the go,and fell asleep in the chair.
Woke up 90 minutes later to $16.5k missing from the account.

Lesson: don't trade when over exhausted.
The harder I work,the luckier I get.
  • #47
  • Edited 5:07pm Jul 19, 2009 5:04pm | Edited 5:07pm
What are the reasons people trade without a stop loss? - my guess would be

 

  1. The best place for a stop would mean too large a $ loss if it is hit (and it will be)
  2. I'm always right so a stop loss is unnecessary
  3. I like holding my losing trades until I get a margin call
  4. My last 3 trades were losers and I don't want a 4th
  5. When my loss gets really big I like stressing over whether to wait and watch it grow bigger or take my loss and watch the market zoom off in the direction I predicted. Whatever I do will be the wrong choice.


If any or all these apply to you then trading without a stop loss is the way to go
J

  • #48
  • Jul 19, 2009 8:54pm Jul 19, 2009 8:54pm
I trade without stops, but I scalp 1 tick charts. I am in and out in minutes sometimes seconds. Sometimes my trade is done before I have time to set a stop, works for me.
  • #49
  • Aug 10, 2009 11:17am Aug 10, 2009 11:17am
"I trade without stops, but I scalp 1 tick charts. I am in and out in minutes sometimes seconds. Sometimes my trade is done before I have time to set a stop, works for me."


Man, I thought scalping the 1min charts was fast. That's cool that you can scalp of the tick charts. Which time frame do you use for reference?
  • #50
  • Aug 11, 2009 10:15am Aug 11, 2009 10:15am
I think that if you are a scalper like the previous 2 posters it becomes rather redundant to be placing stops because your (their) time frame is too short. If the trade does not work, then they are out - it would really never have time to hit their stop. Scalpers tend to trade on a time frame rather than a fixed pip target. I scalp but even so, I DO enter a stop when the trade is entered but rarely is it ever hit, and if it is, it is one of those "you just know the market is about to go my way" sentiments that are really death signals to a trader. I trade thru Oanda and they have an automatic trail setup so I use a 20 pip sl which is never more than 3% loss. And I use that formula to determine trade size.
  • #51
  • Jul 1, 2010 10:38am Jul 1, 2010 10:38am
Quoting huskins
Yes and No.
It depends on what you call a stop loss? at times, when i watch the market, I may have entry and exit criteria. exit @ profit or exit at loss. that may or may not be on the number of pips its gone away.



When ever i am not watching the charts I place them at a level just below or above what ever the case maybe of the support or resitant levels on a higer time frame.

e.g. I have gone long on + macd divergence on 15 mint. I look at the suport level on the 1 hr and place my SL just below that.


b. If yes: do you lock in any profit...

Agree. I have exit criteria that are not based on price or an indicator. So it's a stoploss in it's own way. I don't advocate the use of stop losses. They are mentally debilitating and there are many other ways to protect yourself from yourself.
  • #52
  • Jul 1, 2010 12:38pm Jul 1, 2010 12:38pm
I never get into a trade without a stop loss and most times without a take profit. I'll determine what the SL and TP points are on the chart relative to the entry and then alter my position size so I -
1) risk between 0.5-1% of my trading capital
2) risk:reward ration is atleast 1:1.

Rules above are not really mine. I got them from Van tharp's book. His chapter on position sizing is an eye opener.

Ofcourse, when I say I'm risking money, I mean, demo money

Haven't gone live yet.
  • #53
  • Jul 2, 2010 9:05am Jul 2, 2010 9:05am
Quoting forexemperor
1. Do you trade with a stop loss?
a. If yes: would you please describe it (how many pips away from entry; do you change it ...etc.
b. If yes: do you lock in any profit when the price goes in favour of you and on what criteria, do you use trailing stops?

c. If not: why? how do you manage risk then?

Regards
Also, do you trade with a trailing stop? Please describe it...
  • #54
  • Aug 9, 2012 3:23am Aug 9, 2012 3:23am
Hi All!

It's a fascinating idea that we can enter a trade to win always...but the thing is that it can only happen if you manage very well the different factors of trading, i.e. Money M., Volatility, Nr. of trades, Leverage, etc.

Knowing that, it is possible to trade without a SL and make consistent profits. For sure. But you have to ponder all those aspects in the right proportion. Kind of the holy Grail...but more achievable.

The first thing would be a small trade and a large account, then Multy Timeframe Analysis, I would say.......

Best regards,
Hatzerim
Best Regards!
  • #55
  • Aug 12, 2012 3:53pm Aug 12, 2012 3:53pm
I feel much comfortable without having stoploss.
in fact i do trade to make money and in real life which trader or business man, use the stop loss and vanishes his own money?
for example: in real life a successful traders, buy goods to sell and make profits. so in mean time some things go wrong and the price of the goods drops. the trader wont put them in the garbage but he waits for the price to goes back up. the excellent trader even buy more goods while the prices are low and he will make more money ofcurse.
i think every trader should look at the market as a real. and if you are not sure.........
it has been a years that i dont use stop loss
  • #56
  • Aug 13, 2012 12:44pm Aug 13, 2012 12:44pm
Quoting Argonod
I feel much comfortable without having stoploss.
in fact i do trade to make money and in real life which trader or business man, use the stop loss and vanishes his own money?
for example: in real life a successful traders, buy goods to sell and make profits. so in mean time some things go wrong and the price of the goods drops. the trader wont put them in the garbage but he waits for the price to goes back up. the excellent trader even buy more goods while the prices are low and he will make more money ofcurse.
i think every trader should look at...
goodluck with that
  • #57
  • Aug 13, 2012 12:59pm Aug 13, 2012 12:59pm
It depend also on the leverage used, some trader may feel comfortable in a position 100 pips red, and add new positions looking a big picture. Some other trader would face a margin call if allow a trade to go 100 pips in red, and from here born the urgency to use a stop loss far before such event.
  • #58
  • Aug 14, 2012 4:10am Aug 14, 2012 4:10am
Quoting Argonod
I feel much comfortable without having stoploss.
in fact i do trade to make money and in real life which trader or business man, use the stop loss and vanishes his own money?
for example: in real life a successful traders, buy goods to sell and make profits. so in mean time some things go wrong and the price of the goods drops. the trader wont put them in the garbage but he waits for the price to goes back up. the excellent trader even buy more goods while the prices are low and he will make more money ofcurse.
i think every trader should look...
Enjoy your account while it lasts.
  • #59
  • Aug 14, 2012 5:08am Aug 14, 2012 5:08am
Quoting TradeDogg
Enjoy your account while it lasts.
thanks.. by the way it is my style for about 5 last years and i am still alive.
the sl's and even the tp's is used when you are having and using a system. and for me there is no such a particular system. just trend lines with different sizes.
you need to consider something which is, there are tones of traders who used the stoploss and finally they lost their money and also there traders who did not use the stoploss and they lost too.
from my experiences, forex is just about the money management which made me to be satisfied with less profit.
about 4 months = 2000 pips = and only 37%
i am not telling you guys to trade without sl. i just wanted to say that there is a possibility of trading without that.
good luck everyone with or without SL
  • #60
  • Aug 14, 2012 5:11am Aug 14, 2012 5:11am
Quoting Argonod
thanks.. by the way it is my style for about 5 last years and i am still alive.
the sl's and even the tp's is used when you are having and using a system. and for me there is no such a particular system. just trend lines with different sizes.
you need to consider something which is, there are tones of traders who used the stoploss and finally they lost their money and also there traders who did not use the stoploss and they lost too.
from my experiences, forex is just about the money management which made me to be satisfied with less profit.
about...
A very good answer!
Best Regards!
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