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  • #601
  • Mar 14, 2022 5:53am Mar 14, 2022 5:53am
Quoting PeterCaleb
"I'm a modern person and I know everything. Everyone just has an opinion, and again, I know everything." Oh yes, I understand now. Need an EA because learning is too hard. A real shame. I thought I was contributing.... you know coz you wanna improve. Hehehe my mistake. It reminds me of Oliver Twist ...... Oliver being the trader and "Sir" being the man ..... "Please sir, please fill my order ....". WoooooW ! I really don't know what planet some people are on. OK enjoy the turnip spinning. Peter
Many people don't know how market works. That's why instead of trading using math and common sense these people post a lot about non-existence. They need to fill the vacuum of ignorance with some magic. Like "Hey look, I drew the line and price hit it, that is because (here you can print any bullshit you like)". And people believe them, because they are the same lazy arses. All they all need is some magic lon-lagging indicator or free profitable signals. But this is perfect. More line drawers - more profits! I'd ask government start teaching forex fairy tales right from primary school. Let every young man think that RSI show oversold area, and that the line you draw on the chart is or support or resistance

Observer effect
  • #602
  • Mar 14, 2022 7:48am Mar 14, 2022 7:48am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Joined Jan 2016 Stop orders are market orders. Limit orders are "I wish to buy at", they are shown in orderbook. Market orders are "I want to buy now with immediate execution", so they can't be shown in the orderbook. They doesn't exist. They exist only when someone click the button. That is the basics. Market works this way. Always. There are no exceptions. Only market and limit orders. Only hardcore
Year 2016 was a bad year... verry bad , really, so do not blame me for my stupidity... imagine I have to live with it, some compassion please...
we have aggressive traders and passive traders, aggressive traders hit ASK (market order is hitting somebody offer), when passive one need to buy wait when his Bid will be taken by aggressive seller..

You are saying limit orders are not visible when ASK level reach level of your SL level will be hit with market order?
You say, Stop orders are not in the order book but their exist somewhere and when right ask is going down filially volume of ask will be liquidated by volume stop order. Who will do this execution? ... broker?
  • #603
  • Edited 9:59am Mar 14, 2022 9:27am | Edited 9:59am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} Year 2016 was a bad year... verry bad , really, so do not blame me for my stupidity... imagine I have to live with it, some compassion please... we have aggressive traders and passive traders, aggressive traders hit ASK (market order is hitting somebody offer), when passive one need to buy wait when his Bid will be taken by aggressive seller.. You are saying limit orders are not visible when ASK level reach level of your SL level will be hit with market order? You say, Stop orders are not in the order book but their exist somewhere and when...
Wait. There are no aggressive traders or passive traders. Market is when seller meet buyer and buyer meet seller. There are only market and limit orders around.

Ask 12 lots @ 1700 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1600 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1500 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1400 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1300 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1200 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1100 (limit sell)
---current price 1000
Bid 12 lots @ 900 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 700 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 600 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 500 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 400 (limit buy)

This is orderbook. These are limit orders. Also at some levels there are stops. Once the stop price reached stop order will be triggered. If no one hit market buy or sell the price will stay at 1000 forever.

For example, If you hit market BUY button now with 5 lot size, then you will be filled at 1100 price and there will be 7 lots left.
If someone else hit market BUY button too with 20 lot size, then he will be filled at 1100 with 7 lots, with 12 lots at 1200 and with 1 lot from 1200 limit order. So there price will jump to 1200 and there will be 11 lots left.

But. As I said there are stops hidden. And once the stop price will be triggered market SELL order will be placed too.


Ask 12 lots @ 1700 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1600 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1500 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1400 (limit sell)
Stop for long 45 lot size @ 1350 (that blue position)
Ask 12 lots @ 1300 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1200 (limit sell)
Ask 12 lots @ 1100 (limit sell)
---current price 1000
Bid 12 lots @ 900 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 700 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 600 (limit buy)
Bid 12 lots @ 500 (limit buy)
Short position 45 lot size @ 450 with stop loss at 1350
Bid 12 lots @ 400 (limit buy)

In this case once price hit 1350 -> MARKET BUY will be executed and it will immediately start to fill itself using limit SELL orders. So it will wipe out of the market all green.

Who execute the trade? The engine of exchange (broker, call it broker ok).

Remember we see only limit orders and recent trades.
We don't see stops and positions.
Observer effect
  • #604
  • Mar 14, 2022 10:24am Mar 14, 2022 10:24am
Just came back from shopping...
An such nice post waiting ... we, people from 2016, we are stupid ones but we have luck in finding wise people ready to help...
You know in shopping I mainly play role of personal driver when she is shopping... but have some time for thinking and I find out difference between stop order and stop lose order...
and why SL is not seen in order book, while Stop Orders can be seen...
Ryan thank you...
  • #605
  • Edited 3:23pm Mar 14, 2022 10:43am | Edited 3:23pm
Quoting BlackNapkins
Just came back from shopping... An such nice post waiting ... we, people from 2016, we are stupid ones but we have luck in finding wise people ready to help... You know in shopping I mainly play role of personal driver when she is shopping... but have some time for thinking and I find out difference between stop order and stop lose order... and why SL is not seen in order book, while Stop Orders can be seen... Ryan thank you...
There are no stop lose orders. Stop loss are marker order, that's why you can't see them in the orderbook. Orderbook contains only limit orders. Stops are triggers, they will execute as market order when stop price will be hit.

They are "if" condition. If price will go down x% then execute market sell for my long position. Or if price go higher at x% then execute market buy for my short position.

May be you mean stop limit order? This is "if" order too, not shown in the orderbook too. But "it will TRY to execute as limit order, but no guarantees". In fact it is just "I'll try not to execute as market, I'll try to place limit order and wait for some market order to execute me, but who knows". In fact when stop cascades start to trigger and the price jumps there is no chance to make it work like described. It will execute as common stop market order in 99% cases. So forget about it.
Observer effect
  • #606
  • Mar 14, 2022 11:00am Mar 14, 2022 11:00am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} There are no stop lose orders. Stop loss are marker order, that's why you can't see them in the orderbook. Orderbook contains only limit orders. Stops are triggers, they will execute as market order when stop price will be hit. They are "if" condition. If price will go down x% then execute market sell for my long position. Or if price go higher at x% then execute market buy for my short position.
Yes sir, I think I just said that... but you know, my English... thanks again...
Its kind of funny you place an order which is invisible, you have line of entry, line of TP and line of SL... but only two first lines are presenting real orders...
  • #607
  • Mar 14, 2022 8:04pm Mar 14, 2022 8:04pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Many people don't know how market works. That's why instead of trading using math and common sense these people post a lot about non-existence. They need to fill the vacuum of ignorance with some magic. Like "Hey look, I drew the line and price hit it, that is because (here you can print any bullshit you like)". And people believe them, because they are the same lazy arses. All they all need is some magic lon-lagging indicator or free profitable signals. But this is perfect. More line drawers - more profits! I'd ask government start teaching...


It's OK Ryan, I know you feel powerful and knowledgeable right now, since you've gotten involved in the same sort of stuff as RickM and others... you feel there's no other way "to do it" or for "you to do it". That's fine. Since I signed up with this site, I have only ever legitimately tried to point out the errors in judgment to people, regarding an isolative approach such as that one, buuuut, what do I know? If someone you look up to says "it's good to go" then who can argue with that? Definitely not someone who has more experience than you and the person you learned it from. The trouble starts when someone hasn't seen or done what others have and so automatically assume lots of things. The main problem you're going to find, is this - what you assume will be there tomorrow may not be, so then there's a question - what have you internalized as your knowledge? .... And what can you reproduce as your own? Anyway - scalpers, day traders, trend traders, swing traders. All poor thinking.

Maths is not enough. If you don't believe that, go research real people who have lost $$$ because they relied too heavily on maths alone. You're young, so you have time to learn these things..... if you can get off your high horse. You're not the first to think the way you do. I'm sure all those "line drawers" who make plenty of money from trading or whatever, might think your view is just a tad bit shallow, ignorant and misguided. Seeing as those things can never be drawn without maths involved - angles, price levels, time branches, value allocation etc etc etc the list of applicable knowledge goes on and on.

You're passionate and you're young, so you have time to correct what others have not or will not.

But I will say this - your version of common sense is far from complete or realistic. You're generally too reactive so I don't expect you to listen, but maybe others will and so they will learn the lesson of self control that you're struggling with.

Have fun.


Peter


PS - Tunnel vision will get you killed in the global markets.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #608
  • Edited 9:26pm Mar 14, 2022 9:11pm | Edited 9:26pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} It's OK Ryan, I know you feel powerful and knowledgeable right now, since you've gotten involved in the same sort of stuff as RickM and others... you feel there's no other way "to do it" or for "you to do it". That's fine. Since I signed up with this site, I have only ever legitimately tried to point out the errors in judgment to people, regarding an isolative approach such as that one, buuuut, what do I know? If someone you look up to says "it's good to go" then who can argue with that? Definitely not someone...
Peter, just maybe we know something you don’t, and it annoys the heck out of you.
Look, Stop trying to feed rubbish into our heads - all your stuff is irrelevant mostly.

This is the heart of how the three amigo’s trade every day.

We see the wall of limit orders building on one side of the order book while following the delta coming from time and sales which we view on Ryan’s clever delta indicator. This is a simple code he build on pine editor for use on TradingView platform.

Making money is as easy as waiting for an imbalance on the wall where limit orders disappear on one side while the other side rapidly increase in size. The second step is waiting for the delta to flip with strong readings producing a instant trend.

Our job is quite simple, chase the candle with a limit order to obtain a position at no cost.
In fact if you trade this with BUSD, they pay you a fee to enter and soon after pay you to exit.

We are talking about 99% win rates here.
We don’t need to be real, just aggressive.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #609
  • Mar 15, 2022 2:39am Mar 15, 2022 2:39am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Maths is not enough.
Yeah. Also I have to draw a lot of lines, read all the news all day long and post bullshit on the forum. Then I... Then I what? I'll start making not 2-5% daily but 22-55%? How it is possible? Because of reading news I can increase my leverage, but my risks not? Tell me what the magic math you have. My math say opposite.

In fact I'm not interested in:
1. Drawing lines and rectangles
2. OHCL data strategies
3. Magic
4. News trading
5. MT4/5 and any MQL scam shit

I'm interested in
1. volume
2. time
2. money management
3. reducing trading costs
4. multi-asset
5. arbitrage
6. dashboards
7. python, javascript, pine script
Observer effect
  • #610
  • Mar 15, 2022 5:19am Mar 15, 2022 5:19am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Peter, just maybe we know something you don’t, and it annoys the heck out of you. Look, Stop trying to feed rubbish into our heads - all your stuff is irrelevant mostly. This is the heart of how the three amigo’s trade every day. We see the wall of limit orders building on one side of the order book while following the delta coming from time and sales which we view on Ryan’s clever delta indicator. This is a simple code he build on pine editor for use on TradingView platform. Making money is as easy as waiting for an imbalance on the wall...


To be honest, if there's anything I see that you know that I don't, I'll just track back and go ask the people who you got lessons from. Eg. Zoltan etc. (Foresight is more valuable than data six ways on Sunday and double that next week.) So then I won't be forced to sidestep your "attitude problems" just so the person and myself can discuss things.

I'm glad it's going well for you.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #611
  • Mar 15, 2022 6:00am Mar 15, 2022 6:00am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Yeah. Also I have to draw a lot of lines, read all the news all day long and post bullshit on the forum. Then I... Then I what? I'll start making not 2-5% daily but 22-55%? How it is possible? Because of reading news I can increase my leverage, but my risks not? Tell me what the magic math you have. My math say opposite. In fact I'm not interested in: 1. Drawing lines and rectangles 2. OHCL data strategies 3. Magic 4. News trading 5. MT4/5 and any MQL scam shit I'm interested in 1. volume 2. time 2. money management 3. reducing trading costs...


Your "math" only takes into account past-present with the assumption that "the future" doesn't even exist until it "hits your screen".

In fact there's too many assumptions to list here and you've proven you don't listen.

For me, I don't read news or watch "economic news or announcements" and never ever said I routinely do this. The way I trade I can use any platform (In English hehehe) because any provided "data" is GIVEN not privately sourced. I use BIS reports and I use real life to help me determine what I can do with my money. At every point where that shiny yellow ball in the sky comes UP over the horizon, is the present becoming the past and future becoming the present. You don't understand that because you're obsessed with what other people are telling you is important. PERIOD. No magic. Simply that you modern people "believe" whatever the screen tells you. I've learned differently. Maybe one day you'll learn that a line on a chart is no different to your IF:THEN commands in your programming AND THAT IS ALL IT IS. It's not my god and it doesn't tell me what to do. Your problem is going to be unlearning the superficial so you learn about money. And THAT is what all of it is partly about not blips on a screen.

I'm afraid you make too big a deal about "drawing a line" and miss the fact you've overextended your want and need for outsourcing, leaving your trading operations exposed and vulnerable. You don't trust yourself and you refuse to face reality.

Money in this system moves top down then it moves down to top. So I use a top-down and bottom-up approach because THAT is what the "money supply system IS and does".

Your "toys" can be taken away from you and you would have nothing to say about it. In simple wording - if it's not part of you you have no control of it. PERIOD. End of story. So scalping or trend trading is irrelevant in the usual current form of understanding. Using futures data or just plain data, doesn't matter. The data has no prejudice, you do.

Now here's what I know how to do - I can read a word, a number, I can use all tools available to me. I can use Amibroker to help me test as well as mt4/5 because it makes for good case studies on the brokers and their activities. I'm truthful about what I know because that helps to manage my daily affairs.

I'm sorry but anymore would be seen as "bragging" or some other lame thing people love to call out.

My presence on this site is nothing but a testament that most people have the attitude of experience but are clueless beyond the game of "I want I want I want."

If you have real questions fair enough but I scarcely see those around directed at me so ...... there you have it.

I do not use "the approaches' other people use because they're too speculative and do not protect against crashes and unforeseeable worldwide problems. I don't use "fundamental analysis" because the industry doesn't teach fundamentals, it teaches mentality molding.

I don't know if I have gotten through to you but only you will know. Besides I don't own the wall so ..... yeah.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #612
  • Mar 15, 2022 7:41am Mar 15, 2022 7:41am
Quoting PeterCaleb
Money in this system moves top down then it moves down to top. So I use a top-down and bottom-up approach because
Great, but how you determine top for example? Let me guess. You draw the line from previous high. But this is not good. It is like to say that your car speed limit is 48km/h because it is the average speed in your town for last year. It is not. Your car can do 180km/h for sure. And do it for hours.
But, how to determine how long it can do 180km/h? Using average speed? Nope. Using data how many fuel you have in your tank (at least).

Quoting PeterCaleb
Using futures data or just plain data, doesn't matter.
Very strange statement. On forex you have NO data, only OHCL. What are you trying to compare? No data with data? What is the purpose in such comparison...
Observer effect
  • #613
  • Edited 9:55am Mar 15, 2022 9:45am | Edited 9:55am
I believe you know the town route, so no matter what the speed is you may know where is the roundabout. Google Maps for your help just in case. Good luck.
OHLC, Volume, Footprint, etc are road signs. Maybe we can't drive safely unless we do know them properly and most of them. Always safety belt must be on
Lines = roads and streets, also beautiful squares
  • #614
  • Mar 15, 2022 10:15am Mar 15, 2022 10:15am
Quoting Ihlas
I believe you know the town route, so no matter what the speed is you may know where is the roundabout. Google Maps for your help just in case. Good luck. OHLC, Volume, Footprint, etc are road signs. Maybe we can't drive safely unless we do know them properly and most of them. Always safety belt must be on Lines = roads and streets, also beautiful squares
This thread is about trading using volume data. I don't need "knowledge" how else I can draw a line.
I said many times: I don't care how you all trade and what drawing tools you are using. I saw that "holy grail never loss magic trading" million times. People like Peter can impress only total dumb or newbie with their fancy historical data drawings. Not me.

So if some want to trade like we do - welcome. But please share. If some don't like - go to Trading Made Simple thread. They think that Stoch confirms TDI. And that if it was 2 green candles next will be green too. That will be the right place to show your drawing skills.
Observer effect
  • #615
  • Mar 15, 2022 10:50am Mar 15, 2022 10:50am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} This thread is about trading using volume data. I don't need "knowledge" how else I can draw a line. I said many times: I don't care how you all trade and what drawing tools you are using. I saw that "holy grail never loss magic trading" million times. People like Peter can impress only total dumb or newbie with their fancy historical data drawings. Not me. So if some want to trade like we do - welcome. But please share. If some don't like - go to Trading Made Simple thread. They think that Stoch confirms TDI. And that if it was 2 green...
Lines might be someone else's basic calculation. 2+2=4 So don't criticize everybody who owns magic wands.
What will you do if you knew that GU will go up x pips? I respect both liners, volumers and boxers, but not Suppliers and Demanders who draw with crayons blindly.
Good luck mate
  • #616
  • Mar 15, 2022 11:01am Mar 15, 2022 11:01am
Quoting Ihlas
What will you do if you knew that GU will go up x pips?
I have no idea what the price will be in the future. If I could see the future, I would bet on sports. That's why I'm exploiting market imbalance issue.
I do not believe in miracles. 2+2 is 4. But if read FF looks like here we have only 100% lucky traders who outperform algos with drawing tools. At the same time 99% of them even don't know how orderbook works.
Observer effect
  • #617
  • Mar 15, 2022 12:33pm Mar 15, 2022 12:33pm
When looking "spot" forex charts by mt4/mt5 brokers, have to think what they don't tell.

Should use rubber eraser for 90% of candles, then it start looking something, but still without last trade and volume,order book they are meaningless. Pure Guess.

Those who produce them can use jelly fish heart beat or lava lamp. People get only bid. and that bid can be anything, depends what broker and LP's like to show

Ask has no information, markup perhaps..

Its like a Ice fishing, drilling a hole, and put wallet on string, cant see nothing under ice, just hope mermaid bite and will pull under.
while several polar bears circles around,licking lips and look how easy prey without any effort.





...
.
  • #618
  • Mar 15, 2022 12:41pm Mar 15, 2022 12:41pm
Quoting kk100
When looking "spot" forex charts by mt4/mt5 brokers, have to think what they don't tell. Should use rubber eraser for 90% of candles, then it start looking something, but still without last trade and volume,order book they are meaningless. Pure Guess. Those who produce them can use jelly fish heart beat or lava lamp. People get only bid. and that bid can be anything, depends what broker and LP's like to show Ask has no information, markup perhaps.. Its like a Ice fishing, drilling a hole, and put wallet on string, cant see nothing under ice,...
Comes to what @PeterCaleb says: Real Life
note:I have also footprint, volume and delta
  • #619
  • Mar 15, 2022 12:46pm Mar 15, 2022 12:46pm
Quoting Ihlas
{quote} Comes to what @PeterCaleb says: Real Life note:I have also footprint, volume and delta
I dont want be rude, but i dont want know Peters real life. It can be too much to handle.
I am not paleontologist or belong to secret society with long rituals.

But its so nice to read there has been new progress/things what three amigos are doing
  • #620
  • Mar 15, 2022 12:58pm Mar 15, 2022 12:58pm
Quoting kk100
{quote} I dont want be rude, but i dont want know Peters real life. It can be too much to handle. I am not paleontologist or belong to secret society with long rituals. But its so nice to read there has been new progress/things what three amigos are doing
Always glad to read and test new ideas. Even Peter's real life thing. Good luck!!!
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