I want a losing system

Reason why most of new traders lose their money is not only because of bad trading system but most importantly bad risk control and emotional trading. That being said you can keep your balance positive by improving your discipline.

You are right; mostly new traders don’t care on the money management & risk management policies! Besides; they are trading with an unrealistic target ratio!

its a good point " unrealistic trading target" this stupid thinking always beginners level make emotional and greedy , they always for that reason trade for making money very rapidly. but end of the day , they lost whole equity.

I would recomend you people watch the movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318374/
The Cooler (2003).. Basically everything this person touched or was around it.. went to shit...
So in markets all one would have to do is to hire some "shithand" person and make algo that does the opposite
So I give credit to the thread opener for a perfect solution.. I would love to have SUPER loser... like winning rate 0%... Would sure convert that to millions, out of pocket change.. within (a) week(s)

No offence, but I do get that from time to time (here). Some people get fixated on the "medium" or the used tool with which I demonstrate some "point"... Movies in this example... I like/love to use some parts of movie to illustrate something. I find it a good tool. I could have used books, some novel based or even some scientific ones from psychology to math, statistics and economics. But do you think anyone would read it, no offence? Maybe very few.

But I do get what you are trying to say (maybe)... It is not about getting advices but about something either resonates or gives a good starting point for a debate.. But do not worry... I do not take any advice seriously, not even my own, until I check/test/verify... and be sure that this is very hard to do I am a man of (hard) reason and scientific profs and principles.. so it is very hard for something to become KNOWN in my world... I have been using my price prediction model of 10 years, rather successfully, but still don't know how much if any of it was luck/coincidence/skill/juice Unlike many that use simple "curve fit" and bet the house at too high "n" of their trendsurfed/martingale/swinged trades You are most welcome to try to confirm/reject this for me I am still testing, because of the difficulties to isolate some parameters in the market(s) that has almost infinity parameters and butterfly effects Many get trapped in "fake" statistics...
But to be provocative.. there are no fixed rules in trading... If you know any, please tell me... And if some does get some advice from movie (not my point though) and earns big, glory to him! Why not! That is the beauty of markets... everyone is trying to figure it out... Many thought they did... Many respectable or ivy leagues... do not even try to.. in order to avoid humiliation of fighting with the beast like this

Also (might be unrelated to the point I am trying to make) some hollywood movies/shows are truer than you might think, intentionally or not, you be the judge..
But in the "area" of internet/google, some seemed to realise the viewers are not that ignorant anymore... Good example is MrRobot that was viewed as a "legit" due to every code was tested (by viewers) and worked, for example... Also, Billions TV (2016-) series... seems to be (at least in the beginning - now they got into too much drama) rather legit (by message), if I know anything from the industry!

And don't let me get into some other things about hollywood/movies/reality I wrote too much info (below) already, hope you appreciate the time I took for this! If not, dkrock, then I made the things even worse and I would not be able to explain it in a 1000 posts...

And I also reply with this answer, when some people, from time to time.. immediately switch to this loop "IF used tool/reference=MOVIE, then PERSON living in FANTASY hence NOT TRUE point"... One of the hardest/fundamental concepts (analogy) from nature can be explained with LEGOs... which is mainly meant as a (learning) toy for children... Would you say the the man is living in child's world? I am sure (almost) you know some one of the famous people from different fields explaining something with almost "banal examples" to explain one of the hardest concepts from either physics, psychology, sport..

To stimulate your mind even further... Line from movie or "action hero" to real person is a very blurry one (specially in some cultures - I am sure you know what I am talking about, actors/reality_stars becoming leaders)... Just check the famous people you have for example... Many started in a complete "fantasy"... movies (that they still quote a lot), reality shows or "leaked" videos... Now they trendset, influence the world People like fantasy (movies)... This is why I think it is a good tool to make a point... But please guide me to the thread when there is more of a scientific debate, would love to contribute there with hard data, info... Have put many those seeds in the past but NO response... So I stick to what seem to work or reach most people

And it doesn't matter what the writers had in mind when writing the movie, some movies, concepts or clips can be used as an example, illustration. If you do not understand this, then I am sorry I couldn't be of help. In particular... I am still not sure if the Oliver Stone delivered the message he intended with the movie Wall Street (1987) or it was a lose train... Still good to breakdown/illustrate some characters/scenes/messages though. Even M. Douglas doesn't get it, why some (another) point was taken differently (maybe)... See here. It seems it is not the message/movie but interpretation/reaction. Your comment was a good example... I gave very good reference.. that I will talk now.. but you switched to this conclusion you made, before even watching or checking it, most probably..

The Cooler (2003), quick plot "The unluckiest man in Vegas - a guy whose bad luck is contagious..." And why I find it a good, funny and rememberable reference for this thread? The movie is not about the trading per se. Because I am sure we all know some people (it seems) that are just "shithand", bringing "unluck"... I mean you could put them in the most perfect scenario, give them perfect tools, signals.. they will still crash it somehow.. It is amazing... I am sure we all know many cases like this from all areas... And the thing is they are convinced they want to win but it seems that either they really do not want to and crash everything that might cause this with almost superpower/wizardry
I would not go as far into superstition/faith or whatever.. But some people seem to be COOLERS... And you have to recognise them and avoid (or use them for HEAT PUMP - please do not get fixated on the example... yea yea, people are not like... but ON TOPIC... using COOLER(s) to PROFIT from... by HEDGING!) them (until they solve this) unless you want to "help" or/and take the sacrifice... There are some traders, also here, with good info/skills but if they do (over)trade it themselves.. they will blow the account... Also there seems sometimes there might even be something "more" to/behind something like this, because I do not know if you noticed but some people are just incredibly (un)lucky... trades gets turned by some miraculous/coincident event... almost by the last pip.. and they get massive return... But for some... they might earn big but the price turn at the last 0.1pip... many times! and they get into negative or BLOW! Yeah, might be fantasy but it does happen... I am sure we know many examples from all areas, even trading when this DOES appear to happen. That is why I try to avoid giving some additional signals/trend (to the ones I still give).. made a mistake to give too much in some threads... won't repeat it.. because of this "cooler" or "negativity" factor some people give...
EXAMPLES: I am sure we know about some relative/friend that seem to turn every possible situation into shit... When it get's really bad is when some people are put into leading roles... Some CEO trying to promote some son/daughter.. that might be "coolers"... Sure can guess what happens to company after...

Why they do not want to? Many people have "unworthy" (worthless) feeling deep down... Most probably from childhood, sadly... How do you recognise them? Well some are obvious, like (obvious) inferior complex but superiority complex is much harder to spot... And also, some people under-compensate this.. so they are more obvious but few do overcompensate.. which means they might be epic winers.. although almost maniac ones... See my posts here and here. You might learn something That is why I am always careful even if someone is climbing fast... they might blow/burst... by the nature of things itself or they might (un)knowingly sabbotage/cool But still, if one can ride it while it lasts and pull-out in time, might be fine, but it is a super skill to do that

See my post about this here...

I will be provocative a little more... I doubt epic trader will come from the trading (bible) books... Most of this books can not produce a few (longterm) profitable traders... Check the famous market gurus... Do you think they are profitable (longterm)? They are switching/ditching TEs, if they have one at all... Giving predictions that are "always true"... meaning "Price will go above or below certain price or stay the same".. But people still follow them like crazy... I still haven't figured it out if they do not see the actual wrong predictions... it is all timestamped after all... or if they do not see that account(s) in TEs do change "magically" or maybe (most likely) they just do not care or want to see the truth, prefer to stay in the fantasy following the leader/daddy.

Here the movie reference for you "Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe".

About fantasy... All the movies that I have found about trading... are FAR from fantasy (in contrast to many... - the best we can hope for is for something to work some of the time aka chaotic.. but to PROFIT from it while it does)... They are (almost) all saying basically... that in order to be profitable, you have to have some fix on the game or have "money making money" level of it... (corporate raiding, real estate, loans...)... Check the movies I referenced here and here... But people are living in fantasy, looking for the golden indicator, holy grail.. epic pattern or (popular at the moment) finding some animal figures on the charts like bats, butterflies, sharks... that will give them fairytale profits, consistently! What fantasy are you using btw? If you are math-stat based guy, backed with fundamentals in economics, I would love to have some debate, no pun and I'm not joking... I am looking for one in fact have been.. for quite some time!
And I come from far different area... I just applied tools from other area to markets.. and it seemed to be working for 10+ years... If I would even try to explain it... it might be treated as a fantasy.. Still not sure IF (to be honest - very hard to prove) and specially HOW it works... but it DOES seem to.. Have posted many signals, trends in this (sister) forums... Go check and tell me what you think. I do not mind if it was all luck, as long as it gives money at the end of the day... and that one might know that it might be just that, so being careful.. But if it was just luck... was sure was one of the most unusual one...

As you know, if anyone would really have something (remotely close to the "rule" in the market(s)), might not need many tp20sl20s to get into million/b.../t... fast!

Have you checked some of my other posts, signals. Rarely someone get it.. I have been posting some trendlines (eurusd in particular from which many markets could be derived... and I post about them also for: btc, gold, oil, ngas, now started with CO2, dorian on the side...), signals since 25JUL19 (as chart) and as text since 22JUN19... but people still fantasy about some indicator, "fantasy" (cartoon) characters on the chart... I gave the direct, straightforward, no bull.... line to trade from that was RIGHT reference for the past 1.5months and seem it will be for the next 1.5month, till the end of OCT. But nothing.. Not much interest.. I sometimes wonder if I gave "too good" chart prediction so people think it can't be true and disregard Maybe should have overcomplicate it a little, put some fantasy figures there.. some zoo animals?

P.S. And thx you stimulated me to write this.. I will guide anyone to this post at comments like this

Well apparently you haven't red anything I tried to explain. It was also an experiment to show/proof that it is very hard, if at all, tell something to anyone, you either resonate or not... Same with movies.. It is not so much that they insert anything but some find something that resonates and that's it... Apparently you didn't understand my predictions, my future charts... Do I be more direct for you... EURUSD in (slow) decline till the the end of OCT... I think the prediction is too clear for many to understand.. And it is not just some historic extrapolation... Many dream of bulls, just check... Where are your predictions? But I agree with you there, "those who can, do, those who can't, teach" Glad we "resonate" at something...

EDIT: If you won't read the rest, at least check my tp20sl20 signals... As a scalper that you might be, you might understand the significance...
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...3#post12397103. It was extremely hard... being so precise... You are welcome to contribute for the tp20sl20 effort...

Also, it's funny that you have terminator (movie) for avatar and that your quote, favourite book is from the self-help author that inspired many to quit job and live from the fantasy (and be broke)... He was selling the ultimate fantasy... as the absolute truth... Movies are just that, movies.. But the "real person" claiming he found a secret for success... convincing to all to just "BE RICH"... Many lost everything because of it... It is the older version of "The Secret".

And since you either didn't read any of my posts, not even the last one... I doubt you are pro trader as you say... And what part of pro, if that... Filling orders, providing liquidity? Put some no-bull prediction out there, timestamp it.. I have done many, go search and quote any of it... I also have some published sample TEs, my highest volume/trade account made 200%+ return (this year) (counted as 43.1% due to transfers between accounts calculated as deposits, over which the return is divided). If you make 40trades a day you are a scalper with either no clue where the market is going or not caring...

If you want to try, we can make a 1week match, clean TE, target levels? I do mainly fundamental but also, for some (side) strategies, like tp20sl20...the technics are important, sure not the one you are using... And yeah, my main market is fx, eurusd in particular... for the last 10+ years... And still am profitable.. in particular much to "learn when not to trade" rule, to be exact. Also, since I know "when not to argue"... unless you change your tune or keep it but find a way for us to group something into even bigger profit, I won't respond... But would gladly for money/profit talk. You are welcome for that... I just suspect you might be to ego for that... Ego is the most expensive thing... On the other hand, you can call me whatever as long as we make money together... Imagine if we would group your tech (if you are a scalper you might be much more skilled at that than me) + my fundamentals (am giving the trend predictions for long time, trends that do happen as they are now, the last one posted on 25jul and reposted many times since...)..

All my posts are also part of the experiment how much can anyone real change/help anyone... I mean, I have provided trend since 25JUL19... (Also some micro signals). It sure will be fun to quote my posts and show traders that all they had to do is trade by what I gave them.. I have done this quite a lot, check eurusd thread where I gave many weekly trend predictions (that happened), buy/sell ones... Just check one sample post where I reviewed prediction vs reality.. of 3 of my weekend forecasts (aside of general trend since 22jun as text and since 25jul as chart) https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...5#post12473205
And even additional forecast in that post, that DID happen also...

Check this FX! eurusd prediction made on 19JUN19 https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...5#post12339295 (right since)
Check this, by chart... made on 25JUL19 https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...9#post12403989 (right since)

As a PRO trader that you claim to be, do you recognise the potential money to be made out of it? Gave basically prediction, simple line that continues to be true.. since... You sure know how to profit from that? buy/sell above/below? Specially sale above, just in case.. it dives to deep? Bear in mind that many fantasised (still do and change all the time - so they are "right" either way, "all the time") about many scenarios, specially at those times... I gave a direct, no bull prediction, direction. No crap.... It was true, still is... That was even before MAJOR FED/ECB announcements.. And no, it is not just historic extrapolation, line fitting etc... But hey, I already saw that you are a hard head for something to be changed.. You "know" what you "know" and you will stick to it... That could be good also.

Take care man... But still, being a PRO... if you are interested to make money/profit together, you know where to find me, for now.
You can give me some test (trade) or whatever... If you want to measure c..., not interested... I am here for the money/profit. I do not care who is right, wrong, better, worse.. Who likes me or who I like... I would just like we all get as much money out of this as possible... If anyone recognises themselves in this SIMPLE objective... and think we can combine/group something together, be my guest!

Oh you responded, I'm still here..... No man, you were combining my movie posts... as being part of me and implying that I do not know what I'm doing...
Have you actually red what you wrote "You appear to position trade by relying on movie-style trading"... Getting info only from movies or something... Of course I am a fake, we all are The whole market is fake... The question is, how much money we can get out of it before we realise that

Yeah, Napoleon Hill sure is some interesting character.. But please note that he was quoted in the movie "The Founder (2016)" (about the founder of McDonalds) so fantasy! Or is it! If I would use your logic, this quotes (about persistance) would be fantasy by some poor hollywood writers I hope you also get my point, I do get yours.

Some info about me:
I will give you straightforward info, for you or anyone else.. I have repeated this many times... I come from different area... I was repelled by FX at the beginning, thinking it is just a gambling where only the ones that get the info, win... I am not a gambling personality, I like to know what I am doing... I do not mind also using the "luck", challenging the fate, finding "the secret" on the side, but not as a main thing But since my friend was rather persistant that I try... I have (quickly - just for a quick test) applied tools/"skills" from different area/industry to FX... and was disappointed at first, since it didn't work.. but I later noticed it does, just with a little offset... And I have been testing ever since Made quite some money along the way, was right (at times) to a point where I was afraid some... would be busting my doors... But since FX, very low chance for that, but still But also, there were "dark times", specially when central banks were in play.. would love to see anyone that could predict all that nonsense (2011 anyone?).. but the market returned to its tracks.. I preserved the profits at those times, due to ... "not trading"... Etc etc... And to give you some fantasy.. There are more similarities between weather/hurricane prediction, fx, stocks.. that anyone, specially here, would even dare to imagine... I still can't grasp the concept (of what really drives the market - in the bigger picture; I do allow some techs do work some(times) of the time - or on some scale or inbetween).. If true, it would change everything.. and it would proove that all those tools, indicators, that many are using.. are maybe right some of the time (chaotic) but in the bigger picture, are just tools for the kids But that is another story, still can not proove it.. But I have put my historic tradelist and made some tests, prediction to some of the most sceptical people from and much outside the industry.. And they were all convinced before I was.. I still am not.. Because If I would be... We weren't be talking right now, obviously Hard to isolate/extract the juice, I hope we all know that.. Many fell because of the fake juice... You are welcome to find me verify/reject... Am doing extensive test as we speak, will be done in 3m... I am (almost) sure it will be rather conclusive... At least in terms yes/no... maybe even for the level... but most likely.. either there is or there isn't...
And yea, posting on FX is part of it, to have some additional timestamp of my trades/predictions....

And I accept your offer, no pun! I would like for you to proove that I am a fake trader and that I do not know anything and that any of my profits were due to extreme luck/coincidence... So that I can finally put this FX at rest and go back to flipping burgers... I just can not do that now, I still am not completely convinced that I am fake, but would like to be. It is not even a sarcasm... Please, tell me how can you verify that.. But I must tell you, you have to PROOVE me that I am fake, because otherwise I can not put it at rest... Hope we can get to the 3+ sigma... of proof, 5 is much better..

Was just editing previous post when I saw you response... I do get your point about poor hollywood writers.. and also, many actors are piss broke until they are known to everyone... Pretty much zero or hero industry... But if you think that all the writers are ignorant/poor and that none of the movies have some sort of message, intentionally or not, you might also be living in fantasy...

Tnx for the link, I might check it out! This is what I wanted... Hope we can group anything, if you would be interested... Will check it in time and let you know, if you are not CLOSED for it in advance? I do not care who gets the credits, I am interested in the money part, only

Ok, maybe I typed too much but... what made you think I am looking for a teacher? At best was looking for either some component of anyone, for group effort.. I will continue to do my thing, no worries there.. The second thing that I might be always open is for someone to confirm/reject if I'm a fake or not... But have to proove it! Math-stat wise, not some garbage words... BTW have done those in the past (successfully - but still not convinced), but more from sci guys, because as you might now... hard to find trader with those and hard to find sci person with trading knowledge... Many, even the most skeptical, egotripical traders confirmed this to me... And many, the most skeptical sci guys... I am doing a test now myself... will give it revied by pros... by the end of the year, if all goes well.. But I always welcome additional opinion by a PRO you claim you are..

Will still check your thread (link that you give) in time though.

I am not disputing him btw.. I said he is very interesting. Was just saying that many got broke because they (might) got the message wrong...
And also, I was just (mainly) saying that, coming from your movies->fantasy->untrue (written by poor writers) logic (that could be true most of the time still),
if something is quoted/presented (exampled with/by) in movies... this does not make it untrue (by default). So Napoleon's message can not be disregarded just because he was quoted in movie, right? (BTW to your point) This was my point.. Sometimes "even" movies get/channel the "right" message... If I wasn't clear enough now... I won't be BTW I know some geniouses that quote cartoons all the times, Snoopy etc.. I believe it is how/when you quote it, how you present it, collage it... BTW, electricity is also explained by water (analogy) in sci books... Doesn't make it untrue

Saw you edited some posts... Great man, glad you changed a tune a little.. Yes, W.W. is the daddy of them all... At least for the last 110 years...
But those can be found even thousands years back, also... I believe there are no more original thoughts... just recycled/rebranded/updated ones, tbh...
Even my price prediction model is not (completely) new... I just used some (existing) thing/tools (that I guess not many have thought possible) on something "new", maybe updated a little, tunned a little, risk manage a little etc.. Also, what astounded be about the Science of... is that in those (poor) times he was able to imagine about the future of airplane industry in 1910 (If I remember correctly) etc... Strong imagination, to say the least..

EDIT: Heh, just saw you edited some more... Went backwards sadly... But hey man, you are what you are... If you will want to, you will read what I typed... You just concluded the wrong message, maybe. Take care man..

P.S. Will try to explain the last time.. Was defending the logic.. that if the medium/tool are movies/toys... this does not make it untrue (by default).. And also about being influenced... If I wasn't influenced by my own successfull trades that gave good profits and I still doubt it (price prediction model of 10 years - one of many outputs is the merlins line that I (re)posted many times) in a healthy way.... I am sure won't be influenced by anyone/anything else (more than some temp time), don't you think? I am also a sci guy that is opened for anything.. until proven otherwise... Cheers!..

BONUS: To give you a nice Sunday.. You won man.. You have the longer/thicker... I am just nobody and fake.

I don't really have much else to say. I was concerned about you living inside movies for life and trading lessons, but now I don't care anymore. People come to FF to learn from other trader's experiences, not to watch movie clips. Like I said, occasionally it is cool for entertainment, but you use them as a means of communication.

It is great that you "predicted" a widely "publicized" rate change and now consider yourself a great trader. It is awesome how you can now "predict" that I am not a trader and your one win for the year is enough to challenge me to a trading competition. Yeah. I just don't know what to say about all that. Have you ever watched Kitchen Nightmares? You remind me of those failing restaurant owners that talk a lot of garbage, but are all going broke, lol. Good Luck.

Emotions play a very important role here; this is why a number of new traders get super excited after making 2-3 TPs in their demo!

Hehe... When trading it is better to be indifferent otherwise loses can ruin anyone.. even more so after the build-up of wins.. Nothing more scary than to see winner jumping on the desk out of happiness... Some train-wreck along the road/tracks Because we all fail, but some never seem to recover...

I just love people that like win 100% and feel nothing... And also... if they lose a lot...
I try to avoid emotional players because you do not know when they will go nuts, specially after losing.. everything flies... Meaning, when they win, they FLY... when the lose, things fly...

Very common reason for loss is risk, and your emotions which are always pay main role for your trading. You have to understand that market is risky and you should not take risk every time you see the market moving in your direction of analysis.

Finding a strategy or a person who loses huge amounts of money is just like finding a great strategy that wins in Forex. By simply trading against this strategy or person you can win while that strategy is losing. However if this strategy is a scalpling strategy that loses because of small SL/TP and huge spread, then it’s not useful. If you turn it upside down it still is a losing strategy. If you believe in backtesting a strategy by using EAs, it’s always a good idea to have an option to opposite the entry logic. This way although trading against a strategy may seem stupid, when you try and do it you get surprised that it actually might be profitable.

What did you mean by win 100%? Did you really mean 100% win ratio or using as an example?

100% return (per trade)

Are there traders who claim that they make such profits on a regular basis?

Not that I am aware of... But trades like those do happen... Not as frequent as people would want... Because the idea is to WAIT for the golden opportunity, like cheetah.. and ATTACK it when it comes.. and then WAIT a gain... Some people are very impatient.. would like to be in trade all the time... I saw that it is much harder not to trade too quickly.. after one gets 100% return per trade... There are some experiments here.. people trying to roll sequence of 100% per trade trades in a row.. as high as possible... You would not need many of those in a row... to become wealthy... due to EXP function We had (have) some experiment recently when we rolled it rather high... The experiment is on hold atm... due to lack of new signals with sufficient "certainty" That might change after this FED situation gets through... so after halloween, when the trend might show itself.. and liquidity/volume returns a bit Was rather good last week, but still.. would be much more confident after the All Hallows' Eve...

And btw... If there would be any trader that could be making 100% per trade on "regular" basis... His main concern would be to stay low I mean... "just" 20 trades like those.. in a row... 100USD->100mio I am thinking if we shall repeat/continue this experiment in other markets (specially when eurusd was a mess for so long now)... like WTI OIL, GOLD, in parallel to more conservative/stable trades/returns found here: WTI OIL, GOLD... Will see, soon...

Wow; 100% return??!! I have no experience like that; my maximum return ratio on per trade is around 12%.

Well it's not that hard as it would seem... you can check my TP20SL20 or SINGLE STRIKE thread.. that I might join/move soon... Basically to get 100% return per trade... although very risky one... One would need TP22pips at 500:1.. or TP222 at 50:1... Full account IN.... The trick then is to either STOP... or see how high is one able to roll it, again and again.. until the FAIL (that will happen, the challenge is to PULL-OUT as close before it as possible)... Many achieved this but then threw it back to the market... Since you know it is very hard to pull-out at (close to) the PEAK of excitement or hard to ROLL-FURTHER without the GAME OVER I might restart this (public) trading soon (it was almost only me contributing), when the markets settle (much drama atm), probably in November, tp20sl20 (almost 100% per trade effort) or single strike (up to 500%+ per trade! - you can check in my sample TE... (about 111PIPS at 500:1 and you can get 500% per trade) but at which point I would suggest STOP because I haven't got to the point where I would suggest or even try to make 500% per trades in a row (in the same account)... If I would be able to do that (with high "n"s)... I might switch new cars when the car trash becomes full, or so to speak

BTW I am in one 100% per trade right now Thinking if I should pull at 100% or wait till 500% Right now at 60% per trade... open trade (not in any of published TE).