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The rise of CRYPTO - Bitcoin, LTC, Ether, Dash, Monero

  • #3,961
  • Oct 7, 2019 10:33am Oct 7, 2019 10:33am
Forgot to say - link above also says how to avoid micro problems

Just block micro nano payments.

Who cares of 0.1 cent?
Or 20 cent????
WTF uses such?
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,962
  • Edited 11:34am Oct 7, 2019 11:24am | Edited 11:34am
Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} Hi pal You have some points... I read a fair bit. Ok. So first you mention Bad Actor??? So? If Malicious actor is there , this is (i think they call it) a THIRD solution ,and bad actor loses bitcoins. Right ? It's a safety feature Otherwise if your Doomsday Baaaad Actor attitude pays off then why even have Internet/bitcoin /shoes/telephone ? When i was q kid , couple times i put tacks and pins under people . ...
its about the game theory, if he decides to not hold his end of the bargain the other side has to use the blockchain court to get his money back after a timeout in the HLTC script. There is a minimum dust amount in Bitcoin and so at some point the dust amount > LN payment amount and thus there is no economic viability of such a payment offchain. Dust amount cannot be reduced or eliminated as it opens up dusting attacks and spam, but when price is really high it can be reduced to 1 satoshi as it is not a hard fork.

In consensus systems, its always about cost of attack, a cost-less attack (this specific attack) is the most dangerous because of the non-existant barrier of entry to attack honest users. PoW was designed to prevent cost-less attacks, the cost is directly correlated to the value of the network as a whole and then some.

Your link talks about a solution using probable payments but anonymint refuted that if you check my links and read through them. I too use probable payments with ZDAG but in a different context, they are on-chain and fall back to PoW. They have their own pain-points but microtransactions are not an issue neither are routing problems or rebalancing. I think in the end, once value rises to a point where we are using external price measures there will be no system that is secure against microtransaction lock-out, meaning as long as we are using another medium of exchange to denote value (USD etc) then micro-transactions will be impossible at some point because at some point the cryptographic token will surpass a point where its not seen as a micropayment anymore. Thus it only works out if the whole world is using bitcoin or that token as a medium of exchange and then perhaps not use Bitcoin but other tokens because they will likely be priced cheaper yet secure in their own right from 51% attacks. Atomic swaps like you said, or better yet recursive ZKP's can help us get across to other chains should users wish to take the risk to make micro-payments on offchain channels across other networks. Bitcoin maximalists are pretty short-sighted in this regard, and that includes alot of notable Bitcoin developers who are openly maximalist. I guess they are not experts in game theory or don't see the business side of things that the rest of the world sees as it plays out.
  • #3,963
  • Oct 8, 2019 4:57am Oct 8, 2019 4:57am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} its about the game theory, if he decides to not hold his end of the bargain the other side has to use the blockchain court to get his money back after a timeout in the HLTC script. There is a minimum dust amount in Bitcoin and so at some point the dust amount > LN payment amount and thus there is no economic viability of such a payment offchain... ut.
Hi true.

But few things to remember.
Why are we even talking of dust threshold here.
It's what?

0.02 dollar today, likely 2 dollars in far future (imagine the inflation ECB, FED will pile up)


I wouldn't be bothered with such amounts.
I won't accept even such transaction on my channel.
Why should I?? To make 0.00001 dollar commission?


So dust attacks - nonsense for me.
If a big trader - big volume - profit.

Also i forgot to mention WatchTower.
They'll sort out some Bad actors?

Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,964
  • Oct 8, 2019 6:15am Oct 8, 2019 6:15am
Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} Hi true. But few things to remember. Why are we even talking of dust threshold here. It's what? 0.02 dollar today, likely 2 dollars in far future (imagine the inflation ECB, FED will pile up) I wouldn't be bothered with such amounts. I won't accept even such transaction on my channel. Why should I?? To make 0.00001 dollar commission? So dust attacks - nonsense for me. If a big trader - big volume - profit. Also i forgot to mention WatchTower. They'll...
Talking about the overall idea on LN For microtx and the validation of other chains which maximalists keep dismissing. So LN won’t solve bitcoins scaling issues is the point.

watch towers will turn it into an oligarchy and permissioned transactions also affecting security.
  • #3,965
  • Oct 8, 2019 1:01pm Oct 8, 2019 1:01pm
Bitcoin 8216

Sia??? Verge, 0x up.

So quiet
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,966
  • Oct 8, 2019 1:10pm Oct 8, 2019 1:10pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Talking about the overall idea on LN For microtx and the validation of other chains which maximalists keep dismissing. So LN won’t solve bitcoins scaling issues is the point.

Wwatch towers will turn it into an oligarchy and permissioned transactions also affecting security.
Oh man

Oh boy

Oh mama

Sidhujag why are you involved in bitcoin, crypto etc at all??
Honestly ???

If it was for people like you, no offence , in general , we'll be scribbling on clay slabs and hide from the full moon

Hide from THE MOON , the END is near!!!!

WTF is your argument , overall ??
So you say LN will WORSEN the Bitcoin scaling ???
Oh nooot
So it'll improve scaling .???
Of course not.
It'll make us slaves????
Yeaahhhh
WTF ?

As to Watchtower , look at Dash etc.
Oh look they got masterNodes.

Noone is forced to use LN , Watchtowers etc .

The fact it's available ,that's the beauty .
And solving INDIVIDUAL PROBLEMS
Attached Images
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,967
  • Oct 8, 2019 1:18pm Oct 8, 2019 1:18pm
Two more deep thoughts.

And yes, LN is not about spending 5-50 cent and Big Bad Wolf stealing it....
Hell if you're affraid you'll lose 50 cent you'd better become forest ranger in Mississippi and eat wild pigs.
Eahhh

If Bitcoin fees become 50 dollars again (note today SegWit cut this severely) or 20 or 200.... Who cares.

I'll buy my house (100000 green toilet p) with 1-2 transactions....
I'll buy my gas/diesel /hydrogen/food with LN paying 10 cent fee....
Am I affraid of Bad Actor

Peace out

Just patience
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Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,968
  • Oct 8, 2019 1:22pm Oct 8, 2019 1:22pm
Last message relates to post 3961 and some DUST threshold of what 0.02 dollars??
I'm shocked

wallets out there
https://cryptonews.com/exclusives/to...adopt-4093.htm

And
where are the morons said bitcoin fee is high????
He paid merely cents

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...lets_for_only/
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,969
  • Oct 8, 2019 2:47pm Oct 8, 2019 2:47pm
Quoting Not-KPMG
Last message relates to post 3961 and some DUST threshold of what 0.02 dollars?? I'm shocked wallets out there https://cryptonews.com/exclusives/to...adopt-4093.htm And where are the morons said bitcoin fee is high???? He paid merely cents https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...lets_for_only/
Check out this DOGE transaction: https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/tran...cef29fef6f6eec

Nearly $1m transferred for ~$0.004, insane!
  • #3,970
  • Oct 8, 2019 4:40pm Oct 8, 2019 4:40pm
I was listening to a stream of an Pomp's interview with Garlinghouse earlier. It was pretty much nothing in the end but it was interesting to follow along with. I think it will come out for the others soon. I generally think little-to-nothing of XRP/Ripple/Garlinghouse but this interview interview might have improved that 0.0001% . Best thing he said is that he is bullish on and holds BTC.
  • #3,971
  • Oct 8, 2019 9:17pm Oct 8, 2019 9:17pm
Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} Oh man Oh boy Oh mama Sidhujag why are you involved in bitcoin, crypto etc at all?? Honestly ??? If it was for people like you, no offence , in general , we'll be scribbling on clay slabs and hide from the full moon Hide from THE MOON , the END is near!!!! WTF is your argument , overall ?? So you say LN will...
I joined crypto from a philosophical perspective of money, it played out so far exactly as I thought it would. You're not understanding that I am not saying its end of world. I am saying the future will be based on many chains unlike conventional thought. Masternodes != watchtowers, Dash masternodes have alot of problems the way they are currently structured.

You seem to be stirring up drama when there isn't any to stir up, LN is useful and I will likely leverage it at some point, but its not going to solve the problem for Bitcoin. It might help see the final solution though once we get through it.

I guess according to you there is a fine line between security and obscurity and you chose not to acknowledge for the sake of convenience.

You can ramble on about how Bitcoin will enrich you and who cares about how it works, im rich right? Pretty short sighted but typical for a speculator to think that way its understandable. If everyone thought like that we probably wouldn't have the internet (hint: TBL isn't rich). But to be fair there are 4 aspects of crypto that draw in different types of people, we are simply from the opposite ends of the spectrum and thus will never see eye-to-eye because the premise of our genesis into crypto is on completely different terms.
  • #3,972
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:28am Oct 9, 2019 9:28am
Wow

400 toilet papers up, since 4pm

What's happening??
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,973
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:36am Oct 9, 2019 9:36am
Quoting sidhujag
I joined crypto from a philosophical perspective of money, it...
. I am saying the future will be based on many chains unlike conventional thought. Masternodes != watchtowers, Dash masternodes have alot of problems the way they are currently structured...
thus will never see eye-to-eye because the premise of our genesis into crypto is on completely different terms.
Yes.
We don't see eye to eye.

Hell yeah, we are different .
I'm looking at nice, intellectual ,digital future. All wonderful technology ,and amazing potential (fundamental price factors ) for Bitcoin .

You're affraid of your shadow ,some obscurity-- WTF you throw that in for? Or dust limits or strange attacks stealing two dollars ??
LN is not ready, cryyyyyyyy .......masternodes ..... Not cool pal .

We certainly don't see the same.
I say we drop this discussion

Make peace and contribute to "Rise of crypto "? .
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,974
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:38am Oct 9, 2019 9:38am
Sia, MCO, DGB, BCD up.

STRAT down??? These guys were good, why fuked up

Market Cap: $232,400,799,563
• 24h Vol: $63,026,539,817 •
BTC Dominance: 66.7% •
Cryptocurrencies: 2961 • Markets: 20643

... Overall up....
Second hundred coins - rise all trashy coins, I've never heard of. And Denta.

Third hundred - trash like Gbyte up.

Forth hundred. Trash and BLOCK up

Fifth hundred - trash, BLK and XDN up
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,975
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:48am Oct 9, 2019 9:48am
AEON up.

Enigma and Whitecoin down???? WTF these were good, ages ago.
WTF.?
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,976
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:54am Oct 9, 2019 9:54am
Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} Yes. We don't see eye to eye. Hell yeah, we are different . I'm looking at nice, intellectual ,digital future. All wonderful technology ,and amazing potential (fundamental price factors ) for Bitcoin . You're affraid of your shadow ,some obscurity-- WTF you throw that in for? Or dust limits or strange attacks stealing two dollars ?? LN is not ready, cryyyyyyyy .......masternodes ..... Not cool pal . We certainly don't see the same. I say we drop this discussion Make peace and contribute...
Ofcourse when your deep in the grass you can see the difference between weeds and flowers but to all else it looks green from above. Your continued banter shows you do not fundamentally grasp the concepts, no one said anything about lack of potential or the fact that this is game changing technology. I was tempering expectations telling you LN is fundamentally not ready to use for average joe and that is what sparked your outrage claiming I’m not a good developer. But somehow your reddit research and googling allow you to be more insightful. Good to see you understand that we are on different wave lengths
  • #3,977
  • Oct 9, 2019 10:04am Oct 9, 2019 10:04am
Some US liars work from 2012

Dirty thieves!!!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billyba.../#7295db511966

Quoting sidhujag
. e.

Your continued banter shows you do not fundamentally grasp the concepts,...

telling you LN is fundamentally not ready to use for average joe

....and that is what sparked your outrage claiming I’m not a good developer.

... s
You keep insulting me and that will end (unless you stop) in your ban.
Right?

Instead of arguing with me, get cranking that SYS.

And honestly stop lying . You're simply lying .

Look at the quoted 3 rows and think why you have confidence issues, why you're all knowing and how LN is not ready for Joe.
Capital letters Joe
when I see not one
Not two
Not three...
...
Not thousand
Not 5 thousands .....
....

But
10103 nodes out there +2.71% in the past 30 days

So you smart pants say these are 10000 morons and you are top of the world brain ???

Right ???
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,978
  • Oct 9, 2019 10:17am Oct 9, 2019 10:17am
No need to answer of course.

And keep in mind this thread is for useful comments / links / ideas....
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #3,979
  • Oct 9, 2019 9:53pm Oct 9, 2019 9:53pm
#BTCUSD / H4
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  • #3,980
  • Oct 10, 2019 4:04am Oct 10, 2019 4:04am
Quoting Ayax.TSS
#BTCUSD / H4 {image}
I like it.

As i mentioned yesterday, cr.p central banks print UNLIMITED cr.p paper.


So where's Bitcoin going????
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
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