The rise of CRYPTO - Bitcoin, LTC, Ether, Dash, Monero

Here's a question

We have here a really nice, civilized thread, nice charts, links etc.... 🍻

Yet i don't see the questions and general noise i see in other websites??

Let me tell you, some sites are full to the brim with dumbos and crybabies, and 90% of all posts go like "Bitcoin is going to 0, bitcoin is fraud, bitcoin this, that ".
I even heard you can open a channel on LN without any bitcoin???? LOL.

My point is, such DISCUSSION is ALSO welcome here.
Nobody will be banned from here, as long as it's genuine discussion, with arguments, links etc.... Not some astrological sh!t or palm readers


The questions about crash, or Greater Fool theory are OK.
Give us something to talk further.

[quote=Not-KPMG;11790316]Here's a question We have here a really nice, civilized thread, nice charts, links etc.... Yet i don't see the questions and general noise i see in other websites??

Had I been trading in any other market, and the price had reached my sell stop, I would have been out of the market and cut my losses. I would have then used the money to invest in something that was in an uptrend. So, why don't I or any of you do the same with crypto currencies ? Are we fooling ourselves or have we ever considered that we may be wrong. Is that a BIG NO ? If you do what everyone else does then you will get the same results or if you keep doing the same thing then don' t expect to get different results. Are we being irrational and convincing ourselves, but this time it is different. Maybe this time it really is different. No one wants to sell their crypto holdings in the event that the day that any of us sell, the crypto market takes off. So, is it a case of FOMO ? Food for thought !
So, I know I am being irrational with cryptos. Will I get burned..............

The way I was buying as mentioned before - 50/50 - either big win or total lose, like buying ticket on lottery. I knew I take risk. Some people were 100% convinced they will be rich in no time. I have burned myself like that few times and think more realistic. Also I would never put all eggs to one basket.
For me paypal offers all that crypto would offer (from buyer's point of view) . It doesn't need regulations for crypto as much as it needs companies, a lot of companies that are willing to accept crypto as payment - not few companies that brag about it, but majority of companies - if it will ever happen it definitely won't be in 2 years as Not-KPMG says - who also said 6k for BTC is good price - I can sell you few BTC for 6k each if you think price is good ;-) Just let me know how many you need and we make the deal ;-). I can also offer LTC for 100 USD each, DGB 1 USD each, ADA for only 0.2 USD and many more - just let me know which coin and how many ;-)

Also people won't be investing in something that have burned them so much and so many times. for example I bought ADA for 0.40 USD, now it costs less than 0.03 USD and at it's peak it costed 1.20 USD - please don't tell me you see hope for that. Show me currency that loses so much so quick? Only Zimbabwian Dollar loses more ;-)

As about bitcoin and fact it had so many swings up and down - it's all about hype around it - how many times it will catch people? Also comparing to the past BTC has more competitors - coins that are better than BTC in many ways, in speed, in being easier to count etc.
Maybe it will go up some day but maybe it won't. I'll still keep buying for a while but I see less and less hope for BTC and other Cryptos.
All these positive news and price goes down all the time? Even now I can find pages that say that BTC by end of the year will cost 10k USD - it's just creating hype in hope people will let themselves to be fooled again.
That's how I see it.

Lesson from the past - nearly 8 years ago I kept trading silver - even neighbour's dog was barking to buy silver. So I was buying, on leverage, believing all this crap that silver will get to 100 USD, or even will equal to gold's price (gold was close to 2k USD then). It was going up till it nearly touched 50 USD per oz - within 2 weeks of trading I earned my 3 month's salary. and then it all collapsed - bubble has burst (as my money, then I invested more in hope it's just temporary price drop, I am not sure who has my money now ;-)). Now nearly 8 years later silver costs less than 15 USD per oz. I bet many Not-KPMGs were buying silver like crazy, bragging and hoping to get rich quick. That was one of my lessons about investing. Other lessons were painful as well ;-)

Hi

Very interesting.

You are posting from old mobile buddy??

Yes, there's FOMO.
And yes I'm not selling, although i feel stupid. But THAT'S temporary, I'll feel quite rich in couple years. 2020 likely.

This Bitcoin market is absolutely not like Forex.
Wish i realised earlier. And wish i had proper broker, not exchange only. Anyway.
Next time we'll short it from about 150k and i can wait till then.

I'll find my old post ABOUT PRICE expectations.

So far 85% drop, not bad

Well buddy, you were a little off, first forecast, and damn close on the second.... Yes, we see the future. Remember Neil Armstrong when he said "Good luck mister...."??...Just patience

A good future estimate of EXPECTED bitcoin price.

When?? Not sure....

Here. 25 February or before

A great post and amazing logic i picked from reddit... .
It's a bit long in the future of 3-5 years..... $80000 only.....and doesn't consider major gold holders etc transferring to crypto. But is good.!!!


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...argument_that/
I fully agree!!!! Scarce is scarce. BTC is not BTG....BTX....BTZ.......
I'll present my view on Bitcoin adoption e.g. as investment/hold/use/trade... . All other cryptocurrencies, while many, will be dealt with as fraction of the market cap. So my forecast will be about bitcoin - the rest will move in similar price or %%.
First assumption (A for short) - Bitcoin as a blue blood will stay as 20% dominance.
Second assumption (A) - looking only 2-3-5 years ahead.
Third A. - these A are just assumptions!!! You don't need to go berserk! :-) And don't bother if you have silly questions.
Forth A - in popularity bitcoin will equal Gold, but will beat it in utility, easy trade etc. Everybody knows how great and beneficial crypto is compared with phony paper, stocks or gold.
Fifth A - people will assign 10-15% of their wealth (who has wealth only) to crypto coins.

Let's start ;-) with the money ;-) Who has money??? Of 8 billion about 4 billions own very little. Sorry to say it. :-S If you have $1000 in the bank you're relatively RICH.
Of the other 4 billion people I think only 10% are middle class. So 400 million CAN AFFORD to invest. See assumption 4. Next - many of these are old, retired, scared to invest. :-//
So 200 million people that MIGHT INVEST. Remember 1st assumption? Let's say 40 million will INVEST IN BITCOIN. ...
How much?? I think the average middle class will have $100000 assets. I say average!! So they can invest 10000 in bitcoin.
When?? In few months or years when adoption is wide. :-) I won't repeat again how great and beneficial crypto is.... So that's the demand side.
How about supply?? There's 17-18 million bitcoins. Of these 2-3 million are forever lost. See assumption 3. So we can trade 15 million Bitcoins.
Some people or hedge funds will just HODL. Keep in safe for 5+ years. No sale!!
Let's go personal....
Judging by myself, I'd sell 1/3 of my coins at 25-35k price. I'd keep 1/3 for my kids. I'd sell 1/3 at "high price ".!! What about you??
What's "high price " ??? ;-) Let's find out.
If 1/3 of bitcoin are redistributed in the next 2 years (middle adoption) and 1/3 in following 3 years ....then we're discussing only 5 million bitcoins that will be investment portfolio between 2020-2023. Ok? Assumption 2, 3, 4.
So let's see. 40 million people will try to invest $10000 in bitcoin. Available are 5 million bitcoins. The AVERAGE PRICE then is $80000. It's a fair deduction.
It could be reached earlier too... earlier than 5 years which i see as stable price period.
Today is 18 Feb 2018. Since the bitcoin dominance is not certain, a purchase of other coins is ALSO ADVISABLE.
....
Please share this, copy it around, but provide my name or link to this Reddit. I've written it in a simple way so can share even with newbies.
Bitcoin, crypto are the money of the future! ...ToBitOrNotToBit...

Big thank you TBONTB!!

The thing is, that since almost all Alt coins are priced in BTC for the most part, you have huge potential there also. But there is such a large pool to choose from. I'm still partial to that Syscoin, which has a working idea. Its the adaptation that concerns me, as well as a larger fish coming in and competing with them. Right now SYS is valued at $17 million. Peanuts.

[quote=Not-KPMG;11791669]{quote} Hi Very interesting. You are posting from old mobile buddy??

I am posting from my desktop! I have tried to post a photo where an image is supposed to go, but it does not appear and upload to the space.

Hi bud

What a post

About silver - noo. It's silly metal. No use even.
Palladium maybe??

Heyyy, i never said QUICK!!!

Bitcoin itself is a new class of...asset.
Like telephone, will take 5-15 years to fully catch up.

Did Alexander Bell become millionaire overnight?? LOL.

About 50/50. Absolutely not.
When i entered at 6k i was absolutely confident i can lose 6000 or win (at least 90% certain) 74000. See, no brainer here.

Your kind offer to SELL ME AT $6000, I'll keep in mind and call on you next December or summer 2020.

So you promised to sell me your bitcoin, no matter market price

PayPal??? ?
A bloody extortion, 3-4% fees with EBay.

Plus chargebacks? ??
Noooooo

Discussion on Greater Fool theory??

I have something in mind ,other guys pitch a little?

Quotation is valid only till midnight ;-)

Let's remind ourselves. Bakkt, Fidelity, ICE, Goldman Sachs, Wall Street, probably Charles Schwab and TD Ameritrade are all moving into the crypto space with their own custody/trading services . The SEC sent shockwaves through the crypto space by fining those offering ICOs, that did not register with the SEC, as their conduct was that of unregistered broker-dealers. But really it was a non event as it was a regulatory requirement This was probably great news for the main brokers that will eventually be moving into the crypto space, as it probably removed some of the competition. There was a big sell off because those unregistered trading platforms incurred additional expenses and had to sell off some of their ICOs, it added more fuel to FUD. Again, great for the main brokers and their clients as they can get in at even cheaper prices. So, what has this to do with the Greater Fool Theory

The "Smart Money" wants retail to sell their crypto holdings. It was retail that sent Bitcoin upto the 20k watermark in 2017. Coinbase has made $30 billion in pure profit and Binance has made $20 billion in pure profit in the last 12 months. That is with an estimated 35 million crypto traders globally. The smart money are furious that they are missing out and want to be in to grab their share. When that happens in Q1 of 2019 prices will rocket. You will then see what FOMO will do to prices, for those that have already sold and will jump back in. So, DON'T BE THE GREATER FOOL and HODL the cryptos that you already own, otherwise you will be playing right into the hands of the smart money, you fools. Don't let FUD control you. Be in control with NOFOMO.

Now I know that I am being rational

Nice write up Pleiadian.
BTC 3440 now. Stuck

Sorry, busy Euro. Buying soon....

The post above doesn't have the exact explanation how prices jumped up and down.

There's a factor of retail FOMO behind last summer up.

Or, what i said before, some banks bought 7-14k range and dried liquidity.
That allowed the miners (damn greedy lot) to keep pushing up, WITHOUT SELLING THEIR NEW COINS.
All this combination made a mini bubble Old story.

Now,

Pleiadian somewhat rotated this as SELLING LOW is FOOLISH No doubt. But sell where?

I was thinking about The Greater Fool theory as one of the propaganda bollocking that crybabies ALWAYS bring up. About super high prices. For morons even $200 is too high
Maybe i should check on them in Horses... Don't care much. poor sods when i say 200k is my target they lose their erection

Should we just put it on the table, see some argument FOR and OPPOSITE. Are we fooling ourselves now. When we add at 50k (in far 2023) will we be fools, etc??
🍻

More regulations coming on the horizon.

In an attempt to stem money laundering De Nederlandsche Bank plans to regulate all companies dealing with crypto coins, by requiring them to get a special license. The measure is aimed to deter money laundering and possible funding of terrorist activities.
Under the proposed legislation all companies that want to get a license will have to report all unusual cryto transactions to the authorities and to know exactly who their clients are.

The Dutch Central Bank says the new policy is necessary, because the crypto market is highly decentralized and with a high degree of anonymity, which makes it a perfect tool for money laundering.

Also the measure is in line with a new European directive – the fifth Anti-Money Laundering Directive, which is the first piece of European law that specifically mentions the crypto currencies.

what is Bezop?

What tha freck is that???? Can you edit, delete lots if that above, coz i don't get it??Ths.

There's an article of some adoption, regulation process

https://cointelegraph.com/news/europ...n-adoption/amp

Apparently there's two streams of continent wide regulations, but damn slow...

🍻

And this here.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/funds...-150k-per-coin


....leading cryptocurrency would reach $150,000 per coin, once BTC wallets account for 7 percent of Visa’s 4.5 billion account holders.

In the first three quarters of 2018 the number of ID-verified cryptocurrency users reportedly nearly doubled, climbing from 18 million to 35 million.

As you see we have about 12-20 times growth to chase, and with not-elastic supply we'll get maybe 100 times higher price (to reach balance). 👍👍🍻

this is what I should have done

This is the link to an article by a 'banking expert' https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...rogoff-2018-12

Below is is one of the comments by a reader, raises some interesting points

 

1. REKINDLED_AI REKINDLED_AI Dec 10, 2018
   I do not understand how seemingly well educated people (a presumption given the job titles that our 'esteemed' Mr Rogoff portrays) can misunderstand the world of digital tokens and distributed ledger technology so much.
   
   No, no, take heed. The man has written a book! (appeal to authority, how quaint), yet seems so misguided in his arguments that his countenance should not be valued.
   
   I too am a Dr. in the matter (PhD graduate) and currently find myself employed by one of the worlds largest custodial banks to research the exact field. Does that work as an appeal to authority? Are we equal now, or should we pay heed to your 'experience' on the matter as well? Age before wisdom a wise man once said.
   
   Yet, i do hear the populous cry. For there are so many fundamental malinformed opinions in this article. i do not understand why people are paid to write this drivel (perhaps its sympotmatic of the wider capitalist system that seems to value stupidity over intelligence).
   
   Alas, lets just stick to the failed understanding of what this is actually all about:
   
   I will quote your ineptitude, if you don't mind to much, good Sir.
   
   "The ultimate obstacle for any cryptocurrency is that eventually there has to be a way to buy a range of goods and services beyond illicit drugs and hit men."
   
   There already is. Services like Wirex and BitPay offer crypto to fiat payment pathways (to name just two). SatoshisLivingRoom in Australia allows you to pay any bill in AUD. The State of Ohio recently moved to allow tax payments in crypto (oh my what will happen!), and Open Bazaar is a wide-ranging market place of legal (who would have known!) goods. For Japan (South Korea soon to follow) it is a legal currency, and in Switzerland Bitcoin ATMs are included in all rail ticketing machines. Seems a genuine movement, one would think?
   
   "And if governments ever make it illegal to use coins in retail stores and banks, their value must ultimately collapse."
   
   Yes, governments making things illegal means the object in question ceases to have utility. Is this really your argument? Did you even think about what you wrote before you wrote it? Astounding.
   
   But, people. Don't fret. Good ladies and gentlemen, this good Sir has written a book!
   
   "Bitcoin has no alternative use."
   
   You really should look at Information Systems theory for your answer to this. Bitcoin is a treasure trove. a wide open ledger of transactional data. Do you think that has value? Perhaps data has no value these days. Who woudl have known. Someone contact Google!
   
   "And even if Bitcoiners manage to find a way to lower the phenomenal energy cost of verifying transactions"
   
   You seem to not even understand the economic game theoretic incentive model that underpins the SECURITY of the Bitcoin network. It is not about verifying transactions, it is about ensuring there is necessary resource investment by 'miners' to ensure that the network is resistant to attack.
   
   This Sir, is your most glaring misunderstanding.
   
   An economist of nearly half a century, and you do not even understand the economics the Bitcoin network rests on - yet feel to have the authority to talk on the matter. Shame on you Sir, shame.
   
   "Take away near-anonymity and no one will want to use it; keep it and advanced-economy governments will not tolerate it."
   
   So whats your argument here?
   
   It seems like a few collated into one to give your writings some semblance of strength.
   
   Is Cash usage anonymous? Oh my. They are going to make it illegal.
   
   The reason privacy centric technology is so crucial to cryptocurrencies is because of implicit information theory perspective.
   
   For a crypto to remain FUNGIBLE (do you write about this economic concept in your book? I would hazard a guess not. But its ok, i forgive you), it must remain private.
   
   "The evangelists dismiss such concerns:"
   
   Not at all, i am here, willing to engage. Do i think it will countenance a response from your wise frame. I doubt it very much. Who is the dismissive here?
   
   "But economists (including me) who have worked on this kind of problem for five decades have found that price bubbles surrounding intrinsically worthless assets must eventually burst. "
   
   Have you just described paper money? fifty years you say to reach this conclusion? i applaud you, good Sir. A job well done.
   
   "In the end, advanced economies will surely coordinate on cryptocurrency regulation, as they have on other measures to prevent money laundering and tax evasion."
   
   So you think regulation on money laundering has worked? You mean how complete nation states operate direct investment models based on exactly this business model of tax evasion? You think cryptocurrencies is worse than this? You honestly can sit there, with a straight face and say that cryptocurrencies should be more of a concern than, let's say the British Virgin Islands? Panama? Monaco? Switzerland? i could go on....
   
   "There is also an extremely small outside chance that they will be worth a great deal someday, for reasons that currently are difficult to anticipate."
   
   No, good Sir.
   
   Anybody with an ounce of intelligence would notice there is something more afoot than your one dimensional writings"

Damn bitcoin 200$ dip today.

Every day I'm not keeping eye out, it's down