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Successful traders are very, very rare to find

  • #61
  • Nov 29, 2017 4:48am Nov 29, 2017 4:48am
Quoting Rennaissance
I don't know your experience, but successful traders are very hard to find. A lot of guys who seem successful will fail over the long because they use negatively skewed strategies. What's your experience guys?
In response to your post I trade full time and have a good track record I am interested in discussing trades and strategy with those who are serious about trading and are able to commit the time every weekday. I am based in London and start every morning at 8am I can help any traders who are struggling to trade successfully I will add that I am not selling anything no signals no couses just happy to share with serious like minded individuals
  • #62
  • Nov 29, 2017 4:52am Nov 29, 2017 4:52am
Anyone in or close to London
  • #63
  • Nov 29, 2017 5:37am Nov 29, 2017 5:37am
Quoting DemoForever
{quote} My point is the chances of finding a successful trader(who makes a living year on year from it) are very slim. And even if you do find one don't expect to get the information you need for free!
Yes but...

If the people make some effort to dig, they will find some good information around here.
The problem is the +90% BS.

Sometimes the (good) information is right in front of us, and we dont see it
POW!
  • #64
  • Nov 29, 2017 9:44am Nov 29, 2017 9:44am
Quoting fxprimate
{quote} Yes but... If the people make some effort to dig, they will find some good information around here. The problem is the +90% BS. Sometimes the (good) information is right in front of us, and we dont see it
That right there is why a lot of people struggle. People can execute a mechanical strategy easily when they have the discipline to do so but finding one or making one that works on multiple pairs is tough. (I'm personally still struggling with that) However I have developed multiple strategies for 1 pair that work.

Sometimes the information that we find might be perfectly viable but we execute it wrong causing us to think that it's bs.

If you want gold you have to sift trough the dirt.
  • #65
  • Nov 29, 2017 11:07am Nov 29, 2017 11:07am
Quoting AntiVi
{quote} That right there is why a lot of people struggle. People can execute a mechanical strategy easily when they have the discipline to do so but finding one or making one that works on multiple pairs is tough. (I'm personally still struggling with that) However I have developed multiple strategies for 1 pair that work. Sometimes the information that we find might be perfectly viable but we execute it wrong causing us to think that it's bs. If you want gold you have to sift trough the dirt.
By itself it is already difficult and with all this BS information circulating on the net the process can be painful.

Seems you are doing a good job, according with your TE
POW!
  • #66
  • Nov 29, 2017 11:35am Nov 29, 2017 11:35am
Quoting fxprimate
{quote} By itself it is already difficult and with all this BS information circulating on the net the process can be painful. Seems you are doing a good job, according with your TE
Well it has only been 14 weeks so far with like 16 trades so I'm not cheering quite yet. Before that I had an entire year of ups and downs too and ended up with small profits. (that was a different strategy)

So yeah since I switched strategies it has been going well. The question is how long will it last. The numbers are a bit wrong btw since the Fx book thing counts credit I get from my broker which I don't use but it's on there. so I'm actually up 17.9% instead of the 14.4% it actually says which is really annoying to me for some reason.

I'm still struggling to develop a strategy that works over multiple pairs but I will get there eventually. The last thing I want to do is rush things.

Edit: The goal is to build a track record and find investors
  • #67
  • Nov 29, 2017 11:49am Nov 29, 2017 11:49am
Quoting PayTheLimit
I'm sorry I don't understand this stuff about showing your TE. You think guys on the floor showed their statements to each other? Guys talked about how much they where up or down, maybe for the day or week,but in general terms, and only to people they were tight with.No one walk walked into the bar and said, oh I made 6% today....or I made 100k, or whatever... In fact most guys down played what they made... Successful traders, well you could tell that by what kind of size a guy traded in relation to how long he had been down there for.....that gave...
if i had lived in the heyday of pit trading, i can tell who's making money day in day out right?
it's not like they can hide behind screen. If i follow few guys in my pit, i can tell when they are buying/selling and keep track of how much they make every transaction if i wanted to.

so in essence, that's their unique TE/myfxbook. cross referencing their orders that they give on the floor vs the price on the exhange. simple math and i have general idea how much they make.

not like online trading where people can hide their pnl and go on forums and make bold ass claims. the very least share your pnl, that's what we're here to do..there's a place to discuss pips, ticks, r:r, but bottom line, what's your pnl?!?

Inserted Video
  • #68
  • Nov 29, 2017 12:33pm Nov 29, 2017 12:33pm
Quoting AntiVi
What incentive do successful traders have to put themselves out there? Think about it...
Yeah, I agree with this. The only justifiable reason would be if a trader is building up a track record and is looking for investors. Other than that, most successful traders have nothing to prove to anyone and prefer to fly under the radar and just get on with the job of trading and making money.

It's also why I'm very suspicious of traders who claim to be successful but have no TE or evidence to back it up. It's usually the marketers who have something to sell.
  • #69
  • Nov 29, 2017 12:43pm Nov 29, 2017 12:43pm
Quoting MrBumpFx
{quote} Yeah, I agree with this. The only justifiable reason would be if a trader is building up a track record and is looking for investors. Other than that, most successful traders have nothing to prove to anyone and prefer to fly under the radar and just get on with the job of trading and making money. It's also why I'm very suspicious of traders who claim to be successful but have no TE or evidence to back it up. It's usually the marketers who have something to sell.
Even if that person is looking for investors there is no reason for them to show it publicly.
They can just say "I'm looking for investors, pm me if you're interested."

However if I was an investor looking to invest into a Forex trader other than myself I wouldn't invest with someone without knowing their history, how they approach trading, how they trade and their overall track record.
  • #70
  • Nov 29, 2017 11:34pm Nov 29, 2017 11:34pm
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} if i had lived in the heyday of pit trading, i can tell who's making money day in day out right? it's not like they can hide behind screen. If i follow few guys in my pit, i can tell when they are buying/selling and keep track of how much they make every transaction if i wanted to. so in essence, that's their unique TE/myfxbook. cross referencing their orders that they give on the floor vs the price on the exhange. simple math and i have general idea how much they make. not like online trading where people can hide their pnl and go on forums...

Well yea, if you had nothing better to do. But usually you where busy trading, and on real busy days, you wouldn't know your own PNL till after the close, let alone the guys next to. The only reason you followed other peoples position was to protect yourself, or profit from it. If the guy next to me was a big long, that might affect me as we might be competing for the next order that came in. Or if the pit was mostly short, and we where headed into the close, they would be looking to cover on the bell, etc, etc.

A guys true PNL was his house, his car, where his kids went to collage, where he vacationed, etc. For the most part, only when you got to know a guy a bit, maybe hang out with him, did you know how he really was doing. That was my point I guess.

Anyway, I will tell you this. On the floor, near the exits, there where two strong boxes. This is where people would toss their statements after they where done with them. At the end of the day, after everyone was gone, they emptied these boxes and shredded everything in them.
Look Sharp/Trade Tight
  • #71
  • Nov 30, 2017 2:00am Nov 30, 2017 2:00am
If you got scammed by the marketer because you didn't look at his pnl you're the idiot.

If someone showed his beautiful pnl to the public you're the idiot to read too much into it to think he's a guru trader.

If you want to know whether any trader is a good trader, I repeat - just watch him trade.

If after watching the trader trade you can't tell if he is or isn't a good trader you know nuts about trading. Take up other hobbies like fishing...
  • #72
  • Nov 30, 2017 2:59am Nov 30, 2017 2:59am
Quoting skyway
If you got scammed by the marketer because you didn't look at his pnl you're the idiot. If someone showed his beautiful pnl to the public you're the idiot to read too much into it to think he's a guru trader. If you want to know whether any trader is a good trader, I repeat - just watch him trade. If after watching the trader trade you can't tell if he is or isn't a good trader you know nuts about trading. Take up other hobbies like fishing...
on a forum, it is not that easy to "watch" someone trade.
but if even so,
would you feel that watching thru your own "eyes" someone trade will be inevitable filtered and judged by the viewer's beliefs as guidelines?
how would a hard core swing trend trader conclude watching a counter trend scalper?
how would someone risking religiously 2% a trade think of someone risking 5% or 0.2%?
how would someone using 3:1 RR look at another with bellow 1 RR?

perhaps with open mind, it is possible.
but are the average person open minded enough to objectively decide how good another trader are without some sort of stat involving X number of trades over Y period of time?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #73
  • Nov 30, 2017 3:18am Nov 30, 2017 3:18am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} on a forum, it is not that easy to "watch" someone trade. but if even so, would you feel that watching thru your own "eyes" someone trade will be inevitable filtered and judged by the viewer's beliefs as guidelines? how would a hard core swing trend trader conclude watching a counter trend scalper? how would someone risking religiously 2% a trade think of someone risking 5% or 0.2%? how would someone using 3:1 RR look at another with bellow 1 RR? perhaps with open mind, it is possible. but are the average person open minded enough...
It's a little sad having to explain common sense to ones incapable of seeing 2 inches past their face when it comes to other possible outcomes or scenarios
Here's Tom with the weather.
  • #74
  • Nov 30, 2017 3:23am Nov 30, 2017 3:23am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} on a forum, it is not that easy to "watch" someone trade. but if even so, would you feel that watching thru your own "eyes" someone trade will be inevitable filtered and judged by the viewer's beliefs as guidelines? how would a hard core swing trend trader conclude watching a counter trend scalper? how would someone risking religiously 2% a trade think of someone risking 5% or 0.2%? how would someone using 3:1 RR look at another with bellow 1 RR? perhaps with open mind, it is possible. but are the average person open minded enough...
Take football as example, do you know if a footballer is good at football when you watch him play in football matches ?
Do you need to be an expert yourself or just the average joe to know if this football player is any good at it ?

We surely can't tell if someone is talking about football and show his credentials on forums, we have to watch the player play ball. Now, how long do you have to watch this player play ball that you know if he's good or useless at football ? How long do need to hear a person sing to know he croaks ? How long do you have to watch a person dance to know he has no talent in dancing ?
  • #75
  • Nov 30, 2017 3:32am Nov 30, 2017 3:32am
Quoting skyway
{quote} Take football as example, do you know if a footballer is good at football when you watch him play in football matches ? Do you need to be an expert yourself or just the average joe to know if this football player is any good at it ? We surely can't tell if someone is talking about football and show his credentials on forums, we have to watch the player play ball. Now, how long do you have to watch this player play ball that you know if he's good or useless at football ?
if you watch 1-2 match, whatever you see wont be conclusive, but will be enough for you to form an opinion.
if the particular player wasnt playing too good ( as per your own standard) you will be convinced he isnt good....
if a goalkeeper gets 2 goal one match, 2 the next, you will likely think he isnt really that good...yet could happen to the best of the world too.

didnt the top trader Richard Dennis lost approx 50% of his own and his fund's money before 'retired'?
watching that happen, if thru one of his later investor's eyes, he isnt that good. if someone lose half your money, what would you believe/feel?
yet, thinking in term of his whole carrier, he is still one of the great.
so, which one?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #76
  • Nov 30, 2017 3:41am Nov 30, 2017 3:41am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} if you watch 1-2 match, whatever you see wont be conclusive, but will be enough for you to form an opinion. if the particular player wasnt playing too good ( as per your own standard) you will be convinced he isnt good.... if a goalkeeper gets 2 goal one match, 2 the next, you will likely think he isnt really that good...yet could happen to the best of the world too. didnt the top trader Richard Dennis lost approx 50% of his own and his fund's money before 'retired'? watching that happen, if thru one of his later investor's eyes, he isnt...
My point is pretty simple.

No matter what credentials the trader put forth to the public if any, we have to watch this trader trade live before we come to any opinion.

Very often this single most important and sensible assessment process to audition is omitted.
  • #77
  • Nov 30, 2017 3:52am Nov 30, 2017 3:52am
The problem with watching people trade live is that some people only take 1 trade a week (This is me) and some even 1 trade per month.
I doubt that those kind of traders would actually live trade since it's quite boring to watch someone do absolutely nothing and just waiting for the right moment.

I agree that watching a trader trade live can give you some insight into their trading but that's not going to work for everybody and a trader might have a bad week or even a bad month so you'd have to watch them for a while if you want to form a good opinion.

Every single trader also has a different style of trading and some may look at someones trading and think that it's wrong even though that trader is doing very well and is consistently profitable.
  • #78
  • Nov 30, 2017 4:01am Nov 30, 2017 4:01am
Quoting AntiVi
The problem with watching people trade live is that some people only take 1 trade a week (This is me) and some even 1 trade per month.
Post the trades at the time when the trades are opened. That's 1 post a week or a month, that's how simple it takes.
  • #79
  • Nov 30, 2017 4:03am Nov 30, 2017 4:03am
Quoting skyway
{quote} Post the trades taken at the time when the trades are placed.
You can get the same information from a trading journal though.
  • #80
  • Nov 30, 2017 4:08am Nov 30, 2017 4:08am
Quoting AntiVi
{quote} You can get the same information from a trading journal though.
The only thing that people see in another persons account is the profit and the million dollars on it, they form their opinion based on that. Nobody bothers to look through the trades to form their opinion. That's why scammers flourish in this business.
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