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How to Become Emotionless

  • #141
  • Oct 24, 2017 10:27am Oct 24, 2017 10:27am
Quoting mlawson71
{quote} That only works if you are able to sleep while having an open position. I, for example, can't do that. I stay wide awake watching over the position and that rarely leads to anything good, because I lose sleep, when I lose sleep my judgement isn't as sound and that in turn leads to mistakes and more anxiety.
trade smaller .. problem solved.
  • #142
  • Oct 25, 2017 8:50am Oct 25, 2017 8:50am
Quoting nullx8
{quote} trade smaller .. problem solved.
That is what I've been trying to do, with varying success. Sometimes it's less about the money and more about being right. Sometimes I just prefer not to have any positions during the night and sleep peacefully.
  • #143
  • Oct 25, 2017 10:52am Oct 25, 2017 10:52am
When you quit minding whether you win or lose, however rather "stress" about whether you are following all your framework's principles and your cash administration precisely and make progress toward culminating that rather, at that point you will wind up profiting eventually while scarcely notwithstanding acknowledging you are. I imagine that life by and large without feelings would be exceptionally useless. Be that as it may on the off chance that we are talking about the place of feelings in our trading choices the they have no place there at all. Dissecting charts and markers includes scientific equations and examples which won't be influenced regardless of what we feel or think.
  • #144
  • Oct 27, 2017 3:48am Oct 27, 2017 3:48am
Quoting mlawson71
{quote} That is what I've been trying to do, with varying success. Sometimes it's less about the money and more about being right. Sometimes I just prefer not to have any positions during the night and sleep peacefully.
it's really simple if the position makes you trouble while not seeing it on the screen, it is too big!
where "big" is not mean in relation to the account size, but more in relation to your metal acceptance about the size in losses.

I was there before .. traded huge, but the loss not even caused 0.3% .. but the number was big, so the mind does play games with us.

both must be in line the mental awareness (mental risk) and the account percentage (strategic risk)

I know that because I always trade WAY too big.
if a trade is on I turn off my phone, close all tabs and make sure not to get distracted in any other way.

if have to leave, I use an Algo/Ea that does hedge for me if a certain drawdown does happen to ease my mind.

that's helps less for the mental part but most certainly for the strategic risk.
  • #145
  • Oct 27, 2017 3:55am Oct 27, 2017 3:55am
if you are Addicted watching the charts .. and FOMO is a problem

change your template to show the candles in one color!
trust me that helps massively. because the part of your brain that makes you emotional also cares about forms and colors.
so seeing a big red candle immediately wakes FOMO ...
if all candles have the same color .. this is just not existing anymore ... you now see only price and that managed by the calculating part of your brain which has no emotions.

here is an example of my trade-chart
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot_29.png Size: 13 KB

there actually is a "difference" as Bull candles are filled with violet color, but on the screen, i can barely see it .. so they look all the same to me unless I really want to know and look closely, get very close and identify them, but then the FOMO effect has faded already.

here is how my usual trade screen does look like
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot_33.png Size: 61 KB

vWap, Fractals, Pivots .. done.
the "big picture chart" below has color-coded candles but I do not trade off it .. so the purpose is different.

also on that same screen, there is ZERO Money-information. the position list is on another screen and it's usually below other windows like the economic calendar, Reuters software, browser or whatnot .. so I can't really see it unless I want to by selecting it.
but this also takes time .. and again the emotional levels are usually gone once I found the window
  • #146
  • Oct 27, 2017 5:13am Oct 27, 2017 5:13am
Hmm how to become emotionless? That's a good question but sorry, it's impossible to become emotionless. We are human being. We experience emotions constantly in our daily lives in relation to events and people. The experience of emotions is inevitable. First of all, it’s important to realize that when we were given emotion it must serve a purpose that is ultimately to our benefit such as our well being – how happy you are, how good you feel, etc. – is entirely a function of our emotional make-up. Keep in mind, much like everything else we were given, emotions were created to enhance healthy living but it also carries the potential of being abused.

So in trading, the question is not how to become emotionless but to what extent should we allow ourselves to affect and get affected? So when you are in the bad mood while trading maybe because you have a losses. That situation is a choice. You either take a rest and go to demo until your emotion is stabilize or you can go trade while you are in the bad mood but I can assure when you do, your losses will be triple or quadruple. Those emotion in trading or psychology in trading such as greed, impatient, revenge trade always exist every time. One of the most important thing in trading psychology is you see you should ask yourself this question, when in trading something happen and it doesn't go to your expectation or all hell break loose, what is your reaction to that situation? when things doesn't go your way what is your best action?

you know I might be speaking nonsense but this is from what I experience, It works for me.
Follow your dream
  • #147
  • Oct 27, 2017 8:01am Oct 27, 2017 8:01am
Quoting nullx8
if you are Addicted watching the charts .. and FOMO is a problem change your template to show the candles in one color! trust me that helps massively. because the part of your brain that makes you emotional also cares about forms and colors. so seeing a big red candle immediately wakes FOMO ... if all candles have the same color .. this is just not existing anymore ... you now see only price and that managed by the calculating part of your brain which has no emotions. here is an example of my trade-chart {image} there actually is a "difference"...
It had never occurred to me to change the candles to be almost the same or the same colour. Don't you find that confusing sometimes though?
  • #148
  • Oct 28, 2017 5:16am Oct 28, 2017 5:16am
Quoting mlawson71
{quote} It had never occurred to me to change the candles to be almost the same or the same colour. Don't you find that confusing sometimes though?
you may need some "learning" .
but then ask yourself .. whats the use of seeing a down and up candle in the first place?
once they have drawn on the chart, they are in the past. and only the price itself has meaning to it.

of course, this works better on a 2 chart-setup where you see the same symbol in 2 charts ...
so for the longer term perspective, I still have the colors, but the chart i actually trade on does not have them.

to enter .. all that matters is the price. seeing a few red candles in a buy trade, just makes you make decisions you gonna regret later.
not seeing them at all .. is by far better.

but as said before, on the larger timeframe I still show them so I can see the momentum better, but i do not trade of that chart .. that's just the bigger picture.

take this chart as an example:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: cT_cs_2011594_EURUSD_2017-10-27_00-56-40.png Size: 41 KB


green candles are larger than red ones (if they where color coded)
but do you really need the colors to tell you that momentum is gone ?
i mean the size of the candles is pretty clear indication.
however, price is sill falling, and it di fall afterwards i mage this screenshoot reached the TP
it just took forever.

point beeing .. if you see a ton of dojis and green candles .. you far more likely to close out early.
but on a almost monocrome chart. its simple "momentum slowing, but price still falling"
since we are short, the is is what we want
  • #149
  • Oct 28, 2017 8:00am Oct 28, 2017 8:00am
Quoting nullx8
{quote} you may need some "learning" . but then ask yourself .. whats the use of seeing a down and up candle in the first place? once they have drawn on the chart, they are in the past. and only the price itself has meaning to it. of course, this works better on a 2 chart-setup where you see the same symbol in 2 charts ... so for the longer term perspective, I still have the colors, but the chart i actually trade on does not have them. to enter .. all that matters is the price. seeing a few red candles in a buy trade, just makes you make decisions...
My information intake is maybe a little faster when my candles are colour-coded, but beyond that, no, I don't really need them. I'll take all that you've written into serious consideration.
  • #150
  • Oct 28, 2017 8:31am Oct 28, 2017 8:31am
Try this as a “less hardcore” version and try somehow to record the emotions ...

White background (i hate it)
bull candle black
bear candle black
bull candle filled white
bear candle filled black

(I made this up just now on my phone
to illustrate it)

the contrast is still there but both candles have the same frame color (black)

that will already trigger the effect but keeps you seeing what is what.

maybe somethings like that as a soft-switch to check on the own emotions.

mAybe trade on symbol on color and another correlated one in black and white ...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 831D35E3-A3F1-4574-93C9-7DD0967A4880.jpeg Size: 441 KB
  • #151
  • Oct 30, 2017 9:08pm Oct 30, 2017 9:08pm
I believe self-master is the only goal worth pursuing. And self-mastery, above all, includes controlling ones emotions.

As others have pointed out, I, too, think it is impossible to become emotionless. It is possible to not be emotionally invested, however, in what you are doing. But usually that doesn't come by itself. You have to change your whole outlook towards life. In each situation, you have to think critically. Will worrying about it change the situation in any way whatsoever? No it will not. So what is the point of worrying? Will stressing out do anything other than be detrimental to you? No it will not. So why stress yourself out? You should simply stop caring about other people and things/events that are outside your control, because no matter how much you worry, you do not control them. The only thing you actually control is your judgment/your mind, so keeping your mind calm is within your control.

And I choose to remain calm rather than worried over silly things. I would recommend reading "Marcus Aurelius - Meditations" and "The art of living - Epictetus" for anyone looking to read more into my sort of philosophy.
  • #152
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:46pm Nov 1, 2017 7:46pm
Quoting DeepChill
I believe self-master is the only goal worth pursuing. And self-mastery, above all, includes controlling ones emotions.
DeepChill, I think I know what you are trying say, but just to be sure. You cannot control your emotions, but between your emotions and actions, there is a gap/space where you have the ability to follow your true intentions. The only way to get there, is not by controlling your emotions, but to welcome them with open arms and no judgement.

Sounds very Zen.. I know
  • #153
  • Nov 2, 2017 2:39am Nov 2, 2017 2:39am
Quoting Craig
Automate your stratergy, EA's have no emotions.
Yes EA has no emotions but I realized EA or robot can think like human. If EA works then there should be a Forex Trader in the top 10 list of world billionaires.
  • #154
  • Nov 2, 2017 5:43am Nov 2, 2017 5:43am
Quoting Armil
{quote} Yes EA has no emotions but I realized EA or robot can think like human. If EA works then there should be a Forex Trader in the top 10 list of world billionaires.
Yes it’s a good thing , sometimes we can use EA which belongs no emotions , but depending on robot for all time is not a part of healthy trading .
  • #155
  • Nov 2, 2017 5:54am Nov 2, 2017 5:54am
We cannot be emotionless, its true fact. But of course it is possible to control emotions in particularly by proper trading discipline. Emotions and revenge trading is the foremost reason for losing in this stock market.
  • #156
  • Nov 2, 2017 6:49am Nov 2, 2017 6:49am
Quoting JamesFaulkn
We cannot be emotionless, its true fact. But of course it is possible to control emotions in particularly by proper trading discipline. Emotions and revenge trading is the foremost reason for losing in this stock market.
Very true, besides beeinf emotionless would make you an EA and they loose even better that the humans
  • #157
  • Nov 2, 2017 9:46am Nov 2, 2017 9:46am
Quoting JamesFaulkn
We cannot be emotionless, its true fact. But of course it is possible to control emotions in particularly by proper trading discipline. Emotions and revenge trading is the foremost reason for losing in this stock market.
True. Other thing is that you get used to it over time and it doesn't bother you too much anymore. You have to go through a learning process. Especially when you are new.

  1. If you trade Demo, most people don't really care much about the money, because the subconsciousness knows that it is not real.
  2. Then if you made some profits in Demo and think you are ready for the Live Market, most people choke because now it is "real" and seeing "real" money flowing in or out without actually having to work for it is too much for the brain to handle at first.
  3. Naturally you will lose money at first. Either because you have too tight stops because of fear and/or close trades as soon as they are some points in Profit. Also because of fear.
  4. Then after a while you will eventually grow into accepting the coming and going of money. And it doesn't bother you too much anymore. You will accept that it is part of the game, part of the process.
  5. The next step is to learn to allow profitable positions to grow, instead of watching the charts all the time and hovering over the X all the time and thinking "Should I close it? What if the market reverses now ... Oh My Gawd ..." or move the Stop too close so that it will get hit because the market has no room to "breathe".
  6. This will usually take some years. There is no shortcut. You have to pay your toll to get educated by the market. This is something no "Coach" or no "Strategy"- or "Indicator"-seller can replace or take off you.

Long story short:

  1. Trade small
  2. Make losses
  3. Make profits
  4. Embrace and feel the emotions
  5. Get used it to

  • #158
  • Nov 9, 2017 5:02am Nov 9, 2017 5:02am
Quoting nullx8
{quote} Very true, besides beeinf emotionless would make you an EA and they loose even better that the humans
For being emotionless to depend on EA trading is not a correct decision. I always practice in demo account that at all times supports me to control emotions when trading in live.
  • #159
  • Nov 9, 2017 7:23am Nov 9, 2017 7:23am
Quoting JamesFaulkn
{quote} For being emotionless to depend on EA trading is not a correct decision. I always practice in demo account that at all times supports me to control emotions when trading in live.
Trading demo/paper has ZERO emotional impact !
  • #160
  • Nov 10, 2017 5:08am Nov 10, 2017 5:08am
When trading in a demo account, there is no emotion.
Of course you consider this as a perfect place to practice but not at all to control emotions.
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