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What are the minimum requirements for a Holy Grail?

  • #81
  • Jan 7, 2018 7:16am Jan 7, 2018 7:16am
Quoting 9jatrader
Your Holy Grail is your strategy- good entry point/exit
Nice.

But need few more things - ruthlessly keep the rules.
Use several rules - e.g. MA, support, trendlines, old and today's news....MACD....
And enter only when SEVERAL OR ALL rules (on FEW higher and lower frames) are met.
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #82
  • Jan 7, 2018 7:34am Jan 7, 2018 7:34am
Quoting Trader-Waldo
{quote} here you said couple and couple means two(2). just for little thing you are making up in very short period of time: {quote}
My original post was edited by skyway for sarcastic effect. Sorry if we confused you.

Quoting HumbleLearne
THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD IS REALLY AMAZING BUT DUE TO FEW UNINTEED OR INTENDED POST ITS HAS SPILLED INTO DIFFERENT DIMENSION ALTOGETHER " What are the minimum requirements for a Holy Grail? IF EVERYONE OF US JUST ADDED 1 OR 2 POINTS ..AND THE OTHER POINTS SHOULD NOT INCLUDE PREVIOUS POINTS MAY BE WE CAN COME CLOSER TO A HOLY GRAIL
To sum up what several traders have already said, YOU are the Holy Grail.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #83
  • Jan 7, 2018 7:54am Jan 7, 2018 7:54am
Considering that 95-99 % of the retail traders lose over the long term, a holy grail would be a system that has generated profit over a span of at least 2+ years from a sample of, say at least 500 trades. It would also need to have positive expectancy.
  • #84
  • Jan 7, 2018 8:29am Jan 7, 2018 8:29am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} What do you want me to prove?
Go to that thread and read the first post; its easy to disregard whatever you want and say "you are wrong, its pure BS/nonsense, etc etc"

can you walk the walk??

Join us in that thread... no excuses, no random talking, just live trading for 1 year, open a small account and prove your words/aproach, let the time take care of the REAL shit talkers

its not a pissing 1v1 contest btw, its 1 year live trading, you against the market and your EGO, lets see if you can survive
  • #85
  • Jan 7, 2018 8:35am Jan 7, 2018 8:35am
But Holy Grail do exist: https://www.virtu.com/

Oh, sorry. They actually have lost on one trading day in 6 years...
  • #86
  • Jan 7, 2018 8:45am Jan 7, 2018 8:45am
Below my personal opinion and sharing. Every individual has their own benchmark and definition of holy grail.

Eg, I had a fighter spirit, but that doesn't mean I had to fight everyone. Eg, regardless of age or physical attributes, I will still fight anyone who provoke me if I can match, but I will let it go if it wasn't in my league.

So conclusion, fight within your limits, trade within your limits. Rules of surviving is to not to fall and never stand up. Last man standing.
The only winner is the one who survive the longest...
  • #87
  • Jan 7, 2018 10:44am Jan 7, 2018 10:44am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Multiple streams of income. You claim that you trade for clients, but that is not your primary stream of income. Why would someone with your supposed connections need to come to an international trading forum of losers? I know a couple of rich people. Do you do know what they do most of the time? They try very hard not to look rich. Not one of them would get on a trading forum and yell, I am f*cking rich. They usually went to very good schools and would not think to use that sort of language. They would spend time flying and interacting...
Sir I am not trolling, Ive been to Vegas once and did not like it. I am what i say I am. I run a legimate online business dealing with people from all around the world. I am well traveled, well spoken, not particularly well read i must say, but i do try to read here and there. I dont consider the majority of people on this forum to be losers. Most of us here are good hard working people. There are a few that are naysayer losers though and i was just calling them out. that is all. Also just because I am rich does not mean I cannot learn from others and gain diverse perspectives and have discussions. I am not the smartest person in this forum. i just happened to find a high winrate system that works very well. has some flaws that i want to fix though. for example the frequency
  • #88
  • Jan 7, 2018 11:35am Jan 7, 2018 11:35am
Quoting sharingan9
What is a forum without a little banter and back and forth?
Fair point, I will leave you to your exchange of views.
  • #89
  • Jan 7, 2018 12:05pm Jan 7, 2018 12:05pm
After all; the holy grail does exists. just google the keyword "Holy Grail Forex Trading System"

you don't need crooked hillary to achieve holy grail profit;and you don't need any friend for that matter ))
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  • #90
  • Jan 7, 2018 12:11pm Jan 7, 2018 12:11pm
In theory, any system with sustainable positive expectancy per trade can be classified as "Holy grail"!

The reason for this is called COMPOUNDING! (Exponential growth).

The ultimate "Holy grail" is fully automated system with large expectancy per trade (in pips) and high trade frequency.

For example imagine extreme scenario where you have automated system with 100 pips expectancy per trade and average frequency of 5 or more trades per week.
Such system will be extremely durable and scalable. With such system you can destroy the market, and I'm pretty sure that the regulators will put you under investigation.

The good news is that you don't have to operate for more than a few months.
  • #91
  • Jan 7, 2018 1:17pm Jan 7, 2018 1:17pm
We fell off the rails a bit, but for the most part this thread has been illuminating. Even in its infancy, this thread has been telling. The biggest take away so far has been that there are two main camps: Winners and Losers. Ultimately, yes, but for now, let's call them Camp I and Camp II.

CAMP I:

The individuals in this camp have all had a modicum of success in trading; be it live or demo. The hallmark of this camp seems to be the realization that the quest of the Holy Grail is a journey of introspection. Some members may speak about "risk to reward" ratios, or statistical significance, or proper application of all available market generated information, or repeatable edges. To name just a few. What all these Camp I members share, however, is the deep seeded understanding, nay, belief, that the Holy Grail is about finding that which works best for the individual. The Holy Grail is as unique and distinct as the hands of the individual that hold it. The Holy Grail is coupling rational and logical market expectations and realities, with an individual's particular personality and belief system. For some, it's highly quantitative and for others is highly tactile. Camp I members balk at the idea that the Holy Grail does not exist, because they have found it by looking in the mirror. They look in the mirror and say, "The only thing I can control is the person looking back at me". They are their own worst enemy, and their own best ally. They are the Holy Grail. They make up about 5% of the trading population.

CAMP II:

Members of this camp are hallmarked by the notion that the Holy Grail is found by looking outward. It is a prize to be discovered. It is the key to a secret society. It is a system or method that never, or almost never, takes a losing trade. There is no talk of risk, reward, nor of valid market generated information. All that matters is,"when I take a trade, will I be right?". Not, "Do I have a statistical edge?". Individual in this camp scour forums looking for the "next best indicator". They want to go long when the indicator is green and short when it is red. The only thing they want to think about is, "where are they going to spend their untold millions?". They take two trades using a new system or method and win. They take the next trade and it turns out to be a loss. Now, suddenly, they ponder about the validity of the system in the first place. It doesn't occur to them that the underlying assumptions they are questioning after the third trade, are the same as they were for the prior two that won. They think trading contest are the best way to prove their trading metal. As opposed to the best way to reinforce bad trading habits. They make up about 95% of the trading population.

5% and 95%........... Those numbers seem familiar.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #92
  • Jan 7, 2018 1:55pm Jan 7, 2018 1:55pm
Minimum requirements???
Er...mmm....let me think....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That it makes $???????????
  • #93
  • Edited 2:20pm Jan 7, 2018 1:56pm | Edited 2:20pm
Quoting Winston Reed
...Each of us has the potential to find our own trading method that we might call our holy grail. Certainly it is a method that minimally produces some sort of consistent profit. To find it there are some basics to start with. Before you start trading any method you must adopt a money management plan that includes an understanding of risk:reward. This is essential. ....
you have 11 threads in attempt to find your own method, your own holy grail(probably was more off record) ...Any success? if not why not? If yes, what components of your trading and you as a trader were crucial for your success, to find your holy grail?

3634 times you expressed your opinion on your journey to your holy grail. what was most important message you gave to others about trading?
NO MATTER THE SITUATION,NEVER LET YOUR EMOTIONS OVERPOWER YOUR INTELLIGENCE
  • #94
  • Jan 7, 2018 1:59pm Jan 7, 2018 1:59pm
Quoting alphaomega
In theory, any system with sustainable positive expectancy per trade can be classified as "Holy grail"! The reason for this is called COMPOUNDING! (Exponential growth). The ultimate "Holy grail" is fully automated system with large expectancy per trade (in pips) and high trade frequency. For example imagine extreme scenario where you have automated system with 100 pips expectancy per trade and average frequency of 5 or more trades per week. Such system will be extremely durable and scalable. With such system you can destroy the market, and I'm pretty...
This . The higher the frequency the better use of compunding, and the best idea you can get on max DD, and the more confidence you can have in your live or automated backtest as you have a bigger (hopefully gaussian like) measurements.
  • #95
  • Jan 7, 2018 2:12pm Jan 7, 2018 2:12pm
Quoting HiddenGap
We fell off the rails a bit, but for the most part this thread has been illuminating. Even in its infancy, this thread has been telling. The biggest take away so far has been that there are two main camps: Winners and Losers. Ultimately, yes, but for now, let's call them Camp I and Camp II. CAMP I: The individuals in this camp have all had a modicum of success in trading; be it live or demo. The hallmark of this camp seems to be the realization that the quest of the Holy Grail is a journey of introspection. Some members may speak about "risk to...

I politely disagree on the polarized view of "winners and losers" and "inward vs outward" analysis. Certantly winners do both things right, they choose what seems fitting for themselves and avoid all of the psychological & behavioral woes that ruin their success. They certantly also have a "realistic" or "practical enough" view of the markets that guides their actions in such a way that makes them win consistently. It doesn't matter how good you are internally if you lack knowledge, and it doesn´t matter how knowledgeable you are if you cannot put it into practice due to the inward woes.
  • #96
  • Jan 7, 2018 7:07pm Jan 7, 2018 7:07pm
Quoting RondaRousey
The real truth that noobs do not understand is that you don't need the holy grail to make money trading. You can use a basic moving average and be profitable if you know what you are doing. Most people don't know what they are doing. All the tools you need have been around for decades and they are published everywhere on the internet. All you have to do is know when to use them. This is where skill and experience lies. Only a few 1%-5% can do it Trading is the most competitive game in the world. The biggest risk in trading is not knowing what you...
Knowing how and when to use the basic moving average is a “holy” grail ...
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • #97
  • Jan 7, 2018 9:18pm Jan 7, 2018 9:18pm
Quoting sharingan9
{quote} Sir I am not trolling, Ive been to Vegas once and did not like it. I am what i say I am. I run a legimate online business dealing with people from all around the world. I am well traveled, well spoken, not particularly well read i must say, but i do try to read here and there. I dont consider the majority of people on this forum to be losers. Most of us here are good hard working people. There are a few that are naysayer losers though and i was just calling them out. that is all. Also just because I am rich does not mean I cannot learn from...
Well I would suggest, since you are rich and all, that you hire some statisticians, crunch some data, and quantify whatever theory you are chasing. You will not find what you are looking for on a forum like this one. All the best!
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #98
  • Jan 7, 2018 11:17pm Jan 7, 2018 11:17pm
Quoting Raynor
Considering that 95-99 % of the retail traders lose over the long term, a holy grail would be a system that has generated profit over a span of at least 2+ years from a sample of, say at least 500 trades. It would also need to have positive expectancy.
What if a person makes 500 trades over a month? I honestly don't see how the holy grail can be attributed to time/profit! Wouldn't it make sense to base it on certain probabilities being certainties?
The Earth is flat!
  • #99
  • Jan 8, 2018 12:09am Jan 8, 2018 12:09am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Well I would suggest, since you are rich and all, that you hire some statisticians, crunch some data, and quantify whatever theory you are chasing. You will not find what you are looking for on a forum like this one. All the best!
You can find gems even in the most unlikely places. Ive learned a great many things from this forum. You shouldnt disparage this community. You are a part of it after all. I wish you and yours endless success, great health, and happiness.
  • #100
  • Jan 10, 2018 2:05am Jan 10, 2018 2:05am
My trades for the week:

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