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Emotion - the biggest weakness of the trader

  • #21
  • Mar 18, 2016 7:26am Mar 18, 2016 7:26am
Quoting FrXTang
{quote} I still finished reading your thread and tried to write on a piece of everything I do not like in my trading. Then I recorded the cause of. Indeed, psychologically, it became easier. I tried to find a solution. For example: My "belief" is that I can not accept the loss, it is difficult for me. Therefore, in order not to have to worry about losing the deal, I put a stop order, leave the terminal at rest and go to to engage in anything that might distract me.
It's pretty well-known exercise. When a person writes their problems on a piece of paper, it automatically instructs the brain to focus on it and decide. And when the problem is solved, something about it we immediately forget. The only question is how to convince yourself that the belief - it is a problem.
Many traders are faced with the fear of loss. Many, after a few unsuccessful transactions in general are afraid to trade. And in the end, when after all begin trading, often receive yet another loss.
  • #22
  • Mar 18, 2016 7:29am Mar 18, 2016 7:29am
Quoting ReneLH
Continuing the theme of how to influence your psychology: You can influence your emotions in several ways: - Concentration and focus. What you focus on what is what will be your of activity. The question is how to take it. You are considering the possibility of loss or are considering the likelihood of achieving profits? - Beliefs. This is a very powerful information filter. Convinced he does not see anything other than what is suitable for his beliefs. A person sees only what he wants to see. If a person has taken the installation to make a profit,...
Waiting for continue. I will give you advice. To make it clearer, use visual supplements; video material. Read is not always convenient.
  • #23
  • Mar 18, 2016 10:44am Mar 18, 2016 10:44am
Quoting FrXTang
{quote} I still finished reading your thread and tried to write on a piece of everything I do not like in my trading. Then I recorded the cause of. Indeed, psychologically, it became easier. I tried to find a solution. For example: My "belief" is that I can not accept the loss, it is difficult for me. Therefore, in order not to have to worry about losing the deal, I put a stop order, leave the terminal at rest and go to to engage in anything that might distract me.
Nice try. I hope you will succeed. This is a really good way to conquer fear.
  • #24
  • Mar 18, 2016 11:18am Mar 18, 2016 11:18am
Quoting ReneLH
{quote} Nice try. I hope you will succeed. This is a really good way to conquer fear.
Thank you. It works. Useful tips. And you are a trader? You use your knowledge in practice?
  • #25
  • Mar 18, 2016 12:08pm Mar 18, 2016 12:08pm
Quoting LawKin
{quote} It's pretty well-known exercise. When a person writes their problems on a piece of paper, it automatically instructs the brain to focus on it and decide. And when the problem is solved, something about it we immediately forget. The only question is how to convince yourself that the belief - it is a problem. Many traders are faced with the fear of loss. Many, after a few unsuccessful transactions in general are afraid to trade. And in the end, when after all begin trading, often receive yet another loss.
It will only add, how to do it quickly.

Firstly: clear sonanie. Think of the good.

Second: should be positive emotions. For example, you can distract yourself walk in the fresh air.

Third, you can verbalize what you wrote. With that, you can make it as positive.

When you do this, you bring the body to a stressful situation, and it is quick to change your belief
  • #26
  • Mar 18, 2016 12:11pm Mar 18, 2016 12:11pm
Quoting FrXTang
{quote} Thank you. It works. Useful tips. And you are a trader? You use your knowledge in practice?
I have been trading for almost 2 years. I have an account and that knowledge and passion for psychology in many ways to help me succeed with my strategy. I know the difference, because I was once a rookie. I always try to learn.
  • #27
  • Mar 18, 2016 1:04pm Mar 18, 2016 1:04pm

The second way: pain and pleasure (the way Tony Robbins)


The method is to bind the good emotions and thoughts to the belief that you are helping, and the bad experiences to what's stopping you. This is fairly easy. And this is what we have called the experience. Try to see to it what you will cause absence of the stop-loss. Correctly! You can lose more than you can afford. Conclusion - to not constantly feel fear of losing more - put a stop-loss, and measured so that you can lose it.

Our brain always tries to avoid pain and to get pleasure. And in order to avoid the pain associated with not satisfying reality, he will change the conviction to those who will lead you to success, to get pleasure from the new reality.
Your mind - it's part of the organism, which can also feel pleasure. We just need to show him how and where it can get.
Of course, this does not happen immediately.

Video by Tony Robbins. This is a very good psychologist. I advise you to look at his performances.
Inserted Video


Next time I'll tell you about the third way.
  • #28
  • Mar 18, 2016 2:57pm Mar 18, 2016 2:57pm
All of these methods are simple, that as much at ease. You talk about such simple things, but they work. I read it before. Psychology of trading - is a science, as the market - a phenomenon that can not be placed into the framework of the well-known to us. It would be nice to see there are more concrete examples, such as you are cited to the stop-loss. I understand that this is the basic thing, but to many people it is easier to perceive. And with the video, really became more cheerful.
  • #29
  • Mar 18, 2016 3:32pm Mar 18, 2016 3:32pm
Quoting Coreiscore
All of these methods are simple, that as much at ease. You talk about such simple things, but they work. I read it before. Psychology of trading - is a science, as the market - a phenomenon that can not be placed into the framework of the well-known to us. It would be nice to see there are more concrete examples, such as you are cited to the stop-loss. I understand that this is the basic thing, but to many people it is easier to perceive. And with the video, really became more cheerful.
The first and most simple solution from my experience is as follows:
I open the order. I have exhibiting in advance the rendered take-profit and stop-loss. After that, I can with a clear conscience to go to drink tea. I'm not worried about the loss or earnings. Because I chose an environment that suits me.
A little later, I come back for the terminal and put the stop loss to breakeven position, if the order is profitable. After these steps, I did forget about it. Another example. When you see that your prediction not comes true, you should not hurry. Just leave it for another time, refrain from opening orders. You need to have self-esteem.
Do not try to compensate for the loss immediately. Immediately after the closing of the negative transaction - you are under the influence of emotions. Wait, calm down, clear the mind, and then go back to the trade.
I can choose the suitable examples of the trade, when I have the opportunity. Maybe on the next trading week.
  • #30
  • Mar 19, 2016 4:04am Mar 19, 2016 4:04am
What do you mean when you said " in advance the rendered take-profit and stop-loss"? How do you calculate this parameters?
And one more question. What you think about advisors. Can it be solving of the problem with emotions? If you use an advisor, you do not worry during the trading, because it trading without your participation.
  • #31
  • Mar 19, 2016 9:10am Mar 19, 2016 9:10am
I guess then psychos should make good traders.....

It's not that complicated! I just place my orders then clear off to the gym / go for a run / go shopping. It's either win or lose and if you have the confidence in your strategy, you know you will come out on top overall.

If you're stressing about your trade, you're risking more than you can afford.

So, my answer is I'm not emotional with trading, or men, just my kids...
  • #32
  • Mar 19, 2016 10:27am Mar 19, 2016 10:27am
Very interesting thread for me as i lately think that the holy grail is basically a trader psychology ,specially money management .
I personally had burned many accounts while i was learning,but in 2014 i managed to develop strategies that can end most of the months with a good profit ,so technically i can take 1000$ and turn it to 1 milion$ in 2-3 years ,my mind knows it ,but when trading i can't control myself ,i have to use large positions even 10-20% of the account in 1 trade .I tried to control my self and write my trading plan ,i determined my position size before opening the new account ,i do well for 1 month,but than all what it takes 1 cheated trade with large size position ,and the worst when the trade ends winning,and tasting the huge profits 20-30% profit/day ,than lose control ,until losing 20-30% of your account due to over sizing the trades ,feel frustrated ,and than trying to compensate ,and burn the account .it only takes 4 -5 days after the first mistake to burn the account.
So i know my problem exactly,my brain knows it ,but i still can't control it.
I think the thrill of winning 200$ in 1 day from a 1000$ account is more appealing than a million dollar after 3 years.
i decided on December 2015 to make a deposit of 500$ and if lost no more depositing till 2017,i lost half of it ,so opened another account with part of the remaining 150$ ,and still can't respect my trading position size .
So the conclusion :it's so easy to find a holy grail system ,but it's very difficult to trade it profitably because most of us are simply addicted to lose.
  • #33
  • Mar 19, 2016 11:08am Mar 19, 2016 11:08am
Quoting fxnow
Very interesting thread for me as i lately think that the holy grail is basically a trader psychology ,specially money management . I personally had burned many accounts while i was learning,but in 2014 i managed to develop strategies that can end most of the months with a good profit ,so technically i can take 1000$ and turn it to 1 milion$ in 2-3 years ,my mind knows it ,but when trading i can't control myself
That's where your focus is all wrong. It's all centred on greed. Forget $ and just focus on keeping your PF up consistently.
  • #34
  • Edited 4:47pm Mar 19, 2016 11:34am | Edited 4:47pm
Here are my 2 cents:

I believe emotions cannot be controlled volutarily, so any long, energy and time consuming work on the subject "try to control emotions" is just a waste of resources.

Emotions cannot be controlled because they are just a shadow, an effect, not a cause.

What we can control is the quality (and then the quantity) of our emotions.

Let's say we talk about low quality when emotions are like "doubts", "fears", "anxiety", "worry" etc.
High quality emotions are "confidence", "optimism", "entusiasm", "intuition", "good feeling" etc.

Low quality emotions are more dense and are felt more heavily, High quality emotions are less dense and are way lighter (the higher the quality the less you feel such emotion, you know it's there and it feels great, but it's just very light).

Now, we cannot control which emotions to experience, but we can control the cause of the experience of such emotions, and it is all about the amount of energy that we got in our body.
The more energy you got, the higher the quality of emotions in your life.

Stop smoking/drinking, eat healthy, meditate etc.

Stay focused, don't waste energy, let it build over time.
  • #35
  • Mar 19, 2016 1:41pm Mar 19, 2016 1:41pm
Hi guys
I would like to add my tuppence worth. I've been trading for some years now so I know the problems! My advice is:

1/ Timing in forex trading is EVERYTHING. It's so difficult to enter a trade at the right moment but it helps a lot to trade at the right time of the day thus increasing the chance of success
2/ Vital to turn every trade into a winner or at the very least a BE trade. So give every trade "breathing space" ie. don't watch it constantly. Give it an hour to an hour and a half and if you are say 20 - 25 pips ahead (or more) bring up your SL to break even. That cuts out the anxiety/fear of loss!
3/ NOT so easy to find a "holy grail" trading strategy! I have only very recently stumbled onto a system which works consistently on an intraday basis and that is saying something. Because consistently profitable intraday trading systems are incredibly rare! That's why most small traders are losing money even with the very best mental approach
  • #36
  • Mar 19, 2016 2:15pm Mar 19, 2016 2:15pm
Quoting jen101
I guess then psychos should make good traders..... It's not that complicated! I just place my orders then clear off to the gym / go for a run / go shopping. It's either win or lose and if you have the confidence in your strategy, you know you will come out on top overall. If you're stressing about your trade, you're risking more than you can afford. So, my answer is I'm not emotional with trading, or men, just my kids...
Hah! Kids - it is the future (:
Psychology - an amazing thing that allows you to develop everything. If a person is emotional, it does not make him unsuccessful in trade. It simply means that he has to adhere to certain rules. The excitement makes us weak in terms of thinking.
  • #37
  • Mar 19, 2016 2:27pm Mar 19, 2016 2:27pm
Quoting fxnow
Very interesting thread for me as i lately think that the holy grail is basically a trader psychology ,specially money management . I personally had burned many accounts while i was learning,but in 2014 i managed to develop strategies that can end most of the months with a good profit ,so technically i can take 1000$ and turn it to 1 milion$ in 2-3 years ,my mind knows it ,but when trading i can't control myself ,i have to use large positions even 10-20% of the account in 1 trade .I tried to control my self and write my trading plan ,i determined...
I'll try to tell you a way to solve.
I understand that the immediate profit more attractive than promising. However, patience and discipline - is one of the most important qualities of a trader.
To start, try to use your bitter experience in order to understand what you are doing wrong.
I can give an example in the figures. Let's say you have an account, on which $ 500. If you are overly risk, you will lose all the money in 2 months and you have nothing left. And now look on the other side. If you do not earn 20% per day, and 20% in the month, but with less risk of losing, it is likely that, by the end of two months on your account will be $ 720. It's better than nothing, right?
  • #38
  • Mar 19, 2016 3:31pm Mar 19, 2016 3:31pm
Quoting tunera
Here are my 2 cents: I believe emotions cannot be controlled volutarily, so any long, energy and time consuming work on the subject "try to control emotions" is just a waste of resources. Emotions cannot be controlled because they are just a shadow, an effect, not a cause. What we can control is the quality (and then the quantity) of our emotions. Let's say we talk about low quality when emotions are like "doubts", "fears", "anxiety", "worry" etc. High quality emotions are "confidence", "optimism", "entusiasm", "intuition", "good feeling" etc. Low...
I just wrote about this earlier. We can not kill the emotions or beliefs. But we can redirect this energy in a different direction. Make them work for us. Replace bad to good. Our brain - a mechanism of self-improvement. He just need to sometimes show the way that is more convenient to us at the moment. For example, you can take your loss is not as negative as well as compliance with the probabilities in the market. This is perfectly normal.
  • #39
  • Edited 4:22pm Mar 19, 2016 3:46pm | Edited 4:22pm
From personal experience, emotion does come into play when trading, the difference psychologically in risking 0.5%, 2%, 10% or even 20% on a single live account position is massive (then theres the whole side of actual money risked depending on what money sizes you are used to using in your life, risking 10% of a 10,000 account is psychologically different from risking 10% of a 10 account), try it for yourself and you'll know what I mean, that is why I trade purely with limit orders and nothing else, first touch, get in and out for a quick few pips on the initial reaction and I am either right or wrong. Then of course doing that your entries need to be correct and accurate so knowing price action and how certain pairs move is key (I now only trade 3 pairs). Also then there's the whole concept of accepting a loss, the market doesn't always play to your tune and when you get stopped out it isn't nice, the adrenaline is there and the thought of making that loss back ASAP is always there but you have to control that and stay on track. When in a losing positon, the devil on your shoulder is telling you to move your stop loss just that bit further incase it turns, incase it turns and comes back your way, or even take off a stop loss all together and see what happens because the chart is telling you it will turn back soon, obviously the higher risk per position you need to be very disciplined and not deviate from your plan at all....this is where almost all people fail, they are unable to accept a loss or being actually proved wrong...I've read so many threads on here saying they made x amount % growth in a week only to lose it all the next week on one or two positions, the simple fact is people don't like to be shown they are wrong and the candles on the chart will most definitely shove how wrong you were down your throat and then some, it's not always about being right or wrong as I said the markets don't always play to your tune as for the most part they move from supply and demand areas and in exteme cases, react to world events and black swans which are out of your control. I have a set plan for my trading and some days it is very hard to stick to it but I do, as I said I use limit orders and if my mind isn't with it, I don't even look at charts until later that night, if I'm pissed off or angry or not feeling good or feeling emotional, it makes thinking rationally very hard and in turn making the correct decisions on the charts won't happen.

Once you accept this fact and get it under control, your trading will take a massive turn into the green.
  • #40
  • Mar 19, 2016 4:20pm Mar 19, 2016 4:20pm
Quoting GDR3k
From personal experience, emotion does come into play when trading, the difference psychologically in risking 0.5%, 2%, 10% or even 20% on a single live account position is massive (then theres the whole side of actual money risked depending on what money sizes you are used to using in your life, risking 10% of a 10,000 account is psychologically different from risking 10% of a 10 account), try it for yourself and you'll know what I mean, that is why I trade purely with limit orders and nothing else, first touch, get in and out for a quick few pips...
I accept with you in everything. You successfully use the psychology and discipline. This is very good, I'm glad that you shared your experience here, because this is living proof of my words that trading psychology and discipline - two key success factor. You really are acting properly in the market!
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