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  • #5,541
  • Edited 6:00pm Dec 4, 2014 11:31am | Edited 6:00pm
Quoting moomooforex
Thanks for the reply. {quote} Assuming one of the LPs is always more competitive than the others, you just might end up always going with the same LP which would make it very easy for them to build a profile on you and cut you off.... of they are able to do so is my main question.
As mentioned in my previous post to you, there is no "unique identifier" used to represent individual retail clients to liquidity providers on FXCM's NDD platform.

Putting that aside for a moment though, let's consider your hypothetical scenario where one LP is always more competitive than the others. It's true they would get more of the order flow due to quoting better prices, but it would still be difficult for them to build a profile on you specifically since they would also be receiving thousands of orders from other FXCM clients with no way to distinguish the orders of one trader from another.

Putting that aside for a moment though, let's consider your hypothetical scenario where this LP does manage to profile you (perhaps because you always place orders of 846K in size on EUR/JPY ), how could they cut you off? The prices they quote on our NDD feed are available to all our clients if they are the best price available. The only way for them to reduce the chances of getting your order flow would be to become less competitive in their pricing which would also cause them to miss out on the order flow of all other FXCM clients.

Putting that aside for a moment though, let's consider your hypothetical scenario where this LP does decide to quote less competitive prices. There are 10+ liquidity providers on FXCM's NDD feed. Your orders would simply get filled by one of the other LPs that's quoting better prices.
  • #5,542
  • Edited 4:11pm Dec 4, 2014 11:53am | Edited 4:11pm
Quoting moomooforex
what other flow would classify as toxic. Given forex is zero sum, if you win, someone must lose. Does that mean if you have a winning strategy, the market maker is always losing? I guess it really depends on what they are doing with your position and how well/quickly they offload it to the market. Do you think if you have a winning strategy which trades frequently enough for a LP to be able to profile you, you would be deemed toxic and penalized in some way? A classic example would be a high frequency scalping strategy.
Quoting Adal
{quote} Don't know, but remember that forex is a numbers game. Every LP will have winning trades and losing trades. And if you have a lot of losers it means that your market making algo is not very good. A few profitable clients do not matter, unless they are huge, and in that case they will move to lower commission venues anyway.
Adal makes an excellent point! In contrast to the order flow of other market participants, retail traders (generally speaking) like to buy on dips and sell on rallies. That means liquidity providers place tremendous value on FXCM's client order flow, because they can use it to offset the order flow they receive from banks, hedge funds and other financial institutions.

To give you an idea of the proportion of total retail volume we represent, below is a table comparing our retail volume to that of other forex brokers. The numbers shown are in billions of dollars.

http://i.imgur.com/bo7Nbgz.png


The stats above are from the Forex Magnates industry report for Q4 2011. I would post something more recent, but that's the last report that's available to non-subscribers. I hope the authors won't mind me revealing that even their latest reports confirm FXCM's lead over the other firms listed above in terms of monthly trading volume.

FXCM's NDD forex execution means that we welcome strategies that dealing desk brokers try to avoid. In fact, many of our best clients are high frequency scalpers, because of the trading volume they generate for us. Putting that aside for a moment though, let's consider MMFX's hypothetical scenario where a specific high frequency trader placed trades so large and/or so fast during during illiquid times that that it presented difficulties for the 10+ liquidity providers on our retail NDD price feed to offset. We would still have a solution for that trader through our FXCM Pro division.

My specialty is in retail trading, but if you are interested in hearing more about FXCM Pro and our institutional offerings, please send me a private message with your contact details. I would be happy to arrange a follow up for you from one of my colleagues in Pro.
  • #5,543
  • Dec 4, 2014 12:06pm Dec 4, 2014 12:06pm
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote}a friend of mine put in his request on Dec-2 it's now Dec-4 and when he ask about it on chat they told him it's may takes upto 5 days
We offer several withdrawal methods to choose from, and some are faster than others. We say on our site that ACH withdrawals may take up to 5 days, but it's never taken that long in my personal experience. It may depend on the banks involved. I usually receive ACH withdrawals in 1 or 2 days to my accounts with BofA and a local credit union.

I'd be happy to follow up on your friend's withdrawal request if you like. He can send me a private message that includes the email address we have on file for his account, and I can look into it.
  • #5,544
  • Dec 4, 2014 12:46pm Dec 4, 2014 12:46pm
Quoting Cobra
FXCM Demo Acc My demo acc repeatedly gives me "off quotes" and "invalid prices" One hour after the news event!!!! I am just sick and tired of this. Does anyone experience the same with your FXCM demo???? If the demo does this , what would the live acc be like?? Jason how do you explain this? G
Quoting lufkindog
{quote} My Demo acct does it all the time also and I even have the deviation set to 200(20 pips).
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} same here, serious lag on demo, and countless off quote, requite, or unable to close trade due invalid price. makes tough to think what live would be.
Thank you for the details you have provided. They help me to narrow down the problem:

  1. The fact that this you are getting "off quotes" or "invalid price" messages on on a demo account means that it's not a liquidity issue, since liquidity is not a factor on demos.
  2. Cobra, you mentioned that this happened to you 1 hour after a news event, and Lufkindog, you say this happens to you all time even though your Maximum Deviation is set to 200 points (20 pips). This suggests to me that it's not a case of the market price being outside of your Maximum Deviation tolerance.
  3. Profitfarmer, you mentioned experiencing serious lag on your demo. Cobra and Lufkindog, are you experiencing lag on your demos as well? If so, this might all be tied to the same issue.


The info you have provided so far is great! Please tell me the following as well:

  1. What MT4 demo server do you use? You can see this at the top left of your MT4 platform next to your demo account number. For example, I have a demo account on server FXCM-USDDemo01.
  2. What currency pair(s) are you trading when you receive "off quotes" messages?
  3. What size orders are you placing?
  4. Are you using an EA? Which one?
  5. Does your strategy involve trying to place trades on negative spreads? This is possible on Trading Station and NinjaTrader, but not on MT4: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...79#post7899479


Any other details you can provide which you feel might be relevant are greatly appreciated and will help us troubleshoot this problem for you.

Thanks,
Jason

  • #5,545
  • Dec 4, 2014 1:08pm Dec 4, 2014 1:08pm
Jason, my FXCM demo clearly lagged, both the time stamp of the candle, as well as the price...at some point 5-10 min! and 20+ pips....vs. my live ( not FXCM) account. EU, GJ, others didn't have interest in the time, but guess it was all over the board.
The system had the right price at the underlying order entry, and that was not the price shown on the order screen...thus ended up with that bunch of off quotes and requites.
I use the USDdemo1.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #5,546
  • Dec 4, 2014 1:09pm Dec 4, 2014 1:09pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
{quote} {quote} {quote} Thank you for the details you have provided. They help me to narrow down the problem: The fact that this you are getting "off quotes" or "invalid price" messages on on a demo account means that it's not a liquidity issue, since liquidity is not a factor on demos. Cobra, you mentioned that this happened to you 1 hour after a news event, and Lufkindog, you say this happens to you all time even though your Maximum Deviation is set to 200 points (20 pips). This suggests to me that it's not a case of the market price being outside...
Jason

With all respect I fail to see what the 'additional info" will do to change this.

Fact is:

A company like FXCM should provide a professional platform regardless of what currencies I trade and on which server the demo is. Why do we have to complain here about things which are supposed to be pretty standard services?
Your questions are not relevant at all. Your demo's should reflect "real account" situations so that your clients can have a proper "test drive" without having to fine tune settings.
"Other" fx brokers does not confront their clients with the type of questions you are asking. It simply implies that your demo accounts are not geared to do the job of simulating live accounts.
The tragedy for FXCM is that based on this kind of experience with your demo it is highly unlikely that someone would entrust his money with FXCM. I have send an email to Mr Mohamed ( FXCM USA) just this afternoon informing him that I will not open my acc as planned with FXCM anymore due to demo testing your MT4 for more than 40 days now. You can get the details from him on my planned deposit amount. ( Not just a normal acc)
FXCM should just get their house in order and provide their customers with what they promise. No excuses, no questions, no stories .

Gerhard
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #5,547
  • Dec 4, 2014 3:11pm Dec 4, 2014 3:11pm
Cobra did a perfect summary, but I feel to help you out with questionary.
1. USDDemo1
2. GBPJPY, EURUSD
3. 0.1 lot
4. no EA
5. no strategy to trade negative spreads. nor ever received such (yet).

as for the timing, Cobra is correct on it, same experience. At some point your demo was 5-10 min behind my real ( non-FXCM) broker. As for the max slippage, I only tried with 100 ( 10 pips).
Support not even aware of this issue ( I mean live chat tech support) is alarming! And yes, the guy I chat had no clue about this issue, and never heard about it today.
Not a confidence booster, really. Nor the motivation to change for live. Sorry.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #5,548
  • Dec 4, 2014 5:10pm Dec 4, 2014 5:10pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
{quote} As mentioned in my previous post to you, there is no "unique identifier" used to represent individual retail clients to liquidity providers on FXCM's NDD platform.
Very good. Thank you Jason for the confirmation.

Regards,
MMFX
  • #5,549
  • Dec 5, 2014 3:15am Dec 5, 2014 3:15am
is anyone having no connection with FXCM right now? no connection since LO
Appreciation is the key to wealth and happiness
  • #5,550
  • Dec 5, 2014 7:46am Dec 5, 2014 7:46am
Jason

Today was just a confirmation of my decision to NOT DO BUSINESS with FXCM.

I cannot place any orders this very moment. 12 minutes past the news event.

And this on a STP broker who has now send me more than one email from the USA telling me how good i will be treated if I open an acc with them.

Promises , but no delivery.

Gerhard
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #5,551
  • Dec 5, 2014 10:12am Dec 5, 2014 10:12am
Dear Jason

Yesterday, I trade ECB news as you can see in this picture. That time I was watching the chart and price.
My 1st trade was closed BY ITSELF (First, I thought it hit my stop loss and I get 19 pips positive slippage, but while watching the chart, I saw the price was more than 10 pips below from my stop loss when my trade was closed)
My 2nd trade is opened after the 1st one is closed. I stop out at -17 pips.

When I recheck the 1st trade, I am sure that the price was really more than 10 pips below my stop loss, and the candle detail shows that the price was never came closed to my stop loss (spread at that time was 0.3 pips). Then, I realize that It was closed not because it hit my stop loss. And that 19 pips (closed price is 19 below my stop loss) is not positive slippage. If the price hit my stop loss and the trade was closed at below my stop loss, that's a real positive slippage. But it was not and my trade was closed early at a price that i don't want to close it.

My 2nd trade, My initial stop loss (15pips + 0.8pips commision = 15.8pips = 2% of my account). 17 pips negative slippage = 2.16% additional lose. Total lose is more than double of what I have planned and unacceptable. It hurts my risk management so much. But I don't have question about this because it happen all the time during big news.

My question is why my 1st trade is closed when it was 19 pips away from stop loss ? Is it because there was a lot of sellers and not enough buyers at that time, and my stop loss is one of the nearest buy orders, so they match them to make transactions for commissions ?

I want to hear your explanation before making further judgment.
Regards.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FXCM SL Problem.png Size: 45 KB
  • #5,552
  • Dec 5, 2014 10:26am Dec 5, 2014 10:26am
Jason

I am using live account FXCM US USDReal07.
In my account history, trades from the beginning to Nov, 3rd 2014 is disappear. How can I get it back?
  • #5,553
  • Dec 5, 2014 10:44am Dec 5, 2014 10:44am
FXCM is a NDD ECN broker.
QUESTION: why is there stop hunting spike?
spike down 44 pips, then come back to original price when the NFP was not yet released. If not stop hunting, then, what is it?

Luckily, today I didn't trade NFP. If, I bought USD/JYP, I would lose 15 to 20 pips stop loss plus around 20 pips slippage.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: NFP stop loss spike.png Size: 29 KB
  • #5,554
  • Dec 5, 2014 11:29am Dec 5, 2014 11:29am
Quoting Mr.Kane
FXCM is a NDD ECN broker. QUESTION: why is there stop hunting spike? spike down 44 pips, then come back to original price when the NFP was not yet released. If not stop hunting, then, what is it? Luckily, today I didn't trade NFP. If, I bought USD/JYP, I would lose 15 to 20 pips stop loss plus around 20 pips slippage. {image}
Mr. Kane,
the truth is, that was not your broker's stop hunting, it was the market.
the very same candle I can see on my other 2 broker's chart, as I see on FXCM. (that is demo for me.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #5,555
  • Dec 5, 2014 11:31am Dec 5, 2014 11:31am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} Mr. Kane, the truth is, that was not your broker's stop hunting, it was the market. the very same candle I can see on my other 2 broker's chart, as I see on FXCM. (that is demo for me.
OK, Thanks, I get it now
  • #5,556
  • Dec 5, 2014 12:44pm Dec 5, 2014 12:44pm
Today I got 38 pip slippage on EURUSD on NFP which is highest I ever got from any broker. I ordered sell stop at 1.23500 but got filled at 1.23123 and at the time I got filled the red candle was at 1.23231 which means I got filled even below the candle and " 10 PIPS BELOW" and meta trader 4 candle price is always sell price not buy.
SO HURRAY . I shifted to FXCM 2 months ago and still testing them. (totaly unsatisfied till now ) . Another story coming in my next comment
  • #5,557
  • Dec 5, 2014 1:08pm Dec 5, 2014 1:08pm
So here is another experience with FXCM
Last month :
Leverage 400:1
my equity 1098
I put sell stop on NFP on USDCAD with 3 Whole lots which takes 750 margin at that time . I got filled (offcourse after slippage) trade went my way but instantly FXCM ended my entry giving me margin call (totally impossible) as I had 348$ free margin and even if spread was widened it could not have been wider then 10 pips that is 300$ on my 3 lots plus keep in mind that entry was already 10 pips in profit which give 648$ free margin. I talked to their trade audit but only got one reply after 2 weeks that margin call was the reason and cant do anything else . No reply after that.

OK if margin call is their rule then here is another entry just a day before

my equity 1850

I put sell stop on unemployment news of AUD on AUDUSC with 5 whole lots which takes 1250 margin. got filled with minor slippage (2.3 pips) entry went against me . remaining margin 550 . entry went against me instantly according to this only 10.1 pip should have closed my entry as margin call but no. instead it went to hit my stop loss of 18 pips and then also i got slippage and got loss of 21 pips .

SO THERE WAS NO MARGIN CALL WHEN I WAS LOOSING BUT MARGIN CALL CAME RIGHT IN WHEN I WAS PROFITING .

Just giving my experience to people who want to work with FXCM as I also searched these forums before joining them.
  • #5,558
  • Dec 5, 2014 2:08pm Dec 5, 2014 2:08pm
Quoting maind00d
So here is another experience with FXCM Last month : Leverage 400:1 my equity 1098 I put sell stop on NFP on USDCAD with 3 Whole lots which takes 750 margin at that time . I got filled (offcourse after slippage) trade went my way but instantly FXCM ended my entry giving me margin call (totally impossible) as I had 348$ free margin and even if spread was widened it could not have been wider then 10 pips that is 300$ on my 3 lots plus keep in mind that entry was already 10 pips in profit which give 648$ free margin. I talked to their trade audit but...
not sure about FXCMs margin rules, but I know many ECN type account has 100/50% margin call/force close rule.
so, first example, might be self inflicted, since you had only about 30% free margin left?
kind a same second example, maybe. on top, at some news, slippage/liquidity at certain price might be a realistic issue.
on a personal level, those news trades with such large lots relative to account balance, is a serious gamble!!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #5,559
  • Dec 5, 2014 2:32pm Dec 5, 2014 2:32pm
Well it's been several years now actually since I attempted to trade fx.

Back in 2008 I had an account with FXCM's UK division, and after I saw the blatant manipulating that was going on like requotes when trying to close a profitable position, I just walked away from it.

But now I see they have arrived in Canada and partnered with this Friedberg Direct for credibility. That's nice that my funds are held somewhere and protected blah blah, but I'm wondering if FXCM is still doing their old tricks. They claim they are new and improved and see the light, that they are transparent and fair, and no requotes etc., but has that really been the case? Can anyone comment and affirm that this new improved Canadian incarnation of the firm is really doing what they promise? Because it seems from what I'm reading here, and other sources with recent dates, that FXCM may not be much better than back in '08....

also in their sales chat I asked what the minimum deposit is to open an account and he said $2000, but their website says 5000...which is it?
  • #5,560
  • Dec 5, 2014 2:58pm Dec 5, 2014 2:58pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} not sure about FXCMs margin rules, but I know many ECN type account has 100/50% margin call/force close rule. so, first example, might be self inflicted, since you had only about 30% free margin left? kind a same second example, maybe. on top, at some news, slippage/liquidity at certain price might be a realistic issue. on a personal level, those news trades with such large lots relative to account balance, is a serious gamble!!
bottom line if this guy getting margin calls he's over leveraging his trades
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