XAU/USD & XAG/USD - Gold & Silver Traders Thread

the point i was making about manipulation was not just that it was going on, but also how one can use it to advantage - anybody could see the multi-thousand sell orders appearing in the quietest sessions (totally counter productive if you are trying to achieve the best prices) and i concluded it was another set up. so i took a long near the bottom (as i am sure the manipulators did too) and made a tidy profit ......

it was not by any stretch of the imagination normal buyers and sellers looking to maximise their profit therefore manipulation.....

very valid point

I don't think so. But we should move on.

It's not a recommendation.

It's been struggling to get past 1373-1375 and tested 4 time hence the trade and target, looking for a close below 1358.

Re: discussion on the topic of " Manipulation "

gentlemen and ladies , i feel we are flogging this word "manipulation" a bit too far this past few posts . for this session , can we agree to put to rest this topic for the time being.

instead , can we , if time permits , discuss on ways how to recognise indications when manipulation is taking place and how to position ourselves with these indicators to trade profitably ? in other words, how to beat the BigBoys at their game ?

one indicator that I deduced from KADC's post is not to believe what Goldman Sach says , anticipate the opposite .

Note to KADC : please confirm the above statement.

Bingo! ...etc.

How do you do one while doing the other?

I used the silly face already today. Don't want to wear him out.

How would that of worked back when Gold was bullish and they were as well?

People forget those days.

Traders don't.

On the one above - I think u were manipulated perhaps by Lloyd Blankfein because you should have included mr.






-------->Me tinks I'm gonna catalogue some of these precious one liners in POST ONE so we can all have a laugh when needed<------------

I haven't forgotten Goldman Sachs calling for a $2,350 or $2,400 target for gold just as it was about to hit $1,900. They consistently make their pronouncements just as whatever they are talking about is about to change directions be it gold or anything else.

Yes, but
A. It's natural to stall a bit after a decent move up or down,
B. & Price has only slip off highs by about 10 bucks. So the gains are paring. 1360/4 has been holding as supports zone.
C. Seems selling pressure not strong enough, possible some shorts have been covered and are waiting for a bit of a better entry than the top to reverse,
D. & That further longs may not want to add at the top if the price "may" correct a tad.

my prediction for gold is impulse wave 5 on 4 hr chart, it will end at 1273,or 1300 due to a massive counter wave 4 as failure wave 5, then it will complete as impulse wave 1 on the daily chart. I could be wrong.

I'm happy to post charts but I'm afraid I don't have time to research such things; however, I'll post a link if I come across something. I'm sure someone somewhere must have written an article about it. All I can tell you is from experience that unlike analysts who are merely consistently wrong, Goldman Sachs misleads the market by telling people to sell when they themselves are buying and vice versa, and the more adamant they are about their position the more obvious it is that they are lying as we just saw when, despite all market indicators, past decisions, and common sense, they declared that the FED was absolutely going to taper easing.

I'll also reiterate that while it's certainly nice to have a heads up that a potential directional shift or boost of direction is on the way by paying attention to the fundamentals, I trade strictly based on the technicals and I avoid trading during high volatility events. Wednesday, even though I, and anyone who cared to really consider the situation, knew that easing would definitely continue (Can you imagine how far the DOW would have dropped otherwise, and what if panic selling ensued? It would have been almost criminally irresponsible for Bernanke to risk that.), I exited all trades because you're just as likely to see a counterspike to the real direction that rips through all your stops. Six grand for a single position on a $60 move up would have been nice, but not so nice if a counterspike (which didn't happen this time, fortunately) rips through and triggers well past where you set your stop then reverses leaving you deep in the hole.

$1k on a single position for each $10 bounce in a low volatility consolidation zone is both less risky and more reliable which is why that's my preferred way to trade, though I do of course trade the breakouts which is why it's important to know what the next target up or down may be.

Though spikes aren't a problem when you don't use stops (provided, of course, you are both right and can afford the risk), there's the growing problem of institutional autotrading software making the opposite move to the anticipated direction which probably devastates a lot of fundamental traders. This can regularly be seen in the oil and natural gas print and quarterly stock reports, but there's no guarantee, and there's nothing you can do about regardless as I learned the hard way when I used to get beaten up on every natural gas print.

How many times have we seen bad economic data move a currency up instead of down? Though it happens regularly, it doesn't happen so often that you can stake a position on it. You simply can't rely on trading the fundamentals as far as I'm concerned.

It still bothers me to see something like, for example, a few months ago YUM (KFC, etc.) initially rose 17% and ended the day up 12% (or something like that -- I don't have my stock charts open) on not only lowered earnings and lowered forward guidance, but also lowered revised prior data and updated post-quarter same-store sales decline of 23%. When corporate guidance tells you same-store sales have declined 23% and are going to decline further, that's a stock that should sink like a bottomless boat. Now, this worked out great for me as I was holding YUM, but I'd rather have the markets move rationally and lose money than have this insanity happening.

Additionally, it used to be moves of more than 5% were rare even on exceptionally good and bad prints, but now I see them all the time and I find it quite disturbing even when they are moves in the right direction. Regardless, there's nothing I nor you nor anyone else can do about it.

The bottom line is, don't try to beat the system. Simply accept it for the corrupt, manipulated, inside trade dominated thing that it is and focus on the technicals. Sure, you're going to get knocked around from time to time when the big boys decide to shake things up, but that's just how the game is played.

Relax !

Call me oxymoron.

those who understand what i meant will understand what i meant .... and will post accordingly .

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Edit : one of those days when my mind races faster than my fingers : actually , I had this in mind at that time of writing :

instead , can we , at another time , on another day , if time permits , discuss on ways how to recognise indications when manipulation is taking place and how to position ourselves with these indicators to trade profitably ?

Sun , sorry to have turned u mad !

Yes, it's certainly nice to have a heads up that a potential directional shift or boost of direction is on the way.

To know the heads up in bullet forms will be nice .

This is a very negative signal! Now four consecutive wave degrees show a clear NEGATIVE trend. My sentiment for > Today > SELL

Does anyone suspect a dump on gold because its Friday?

weird moves last 5 mins on gold.

algos playing the london open imho - they try to set the tone for the day