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  • #1,361
  • Oct 27, 2010 5:48am Oct 27, 2010 5:48am
If you were one of those unlucky enough to get caught out by SOnray, then i feel bad for you, but one dodgy broker doesnt mean they all are. Chris, can I get you to swear on your mum's life that I wont ever lose a penny trading? No? Ridiculous. Moksha, if the insurance thing mentioned before isnt enought for you, I assume you must have over 6,000,000 to put on account? No? shock horror.
  • #1,362
  • Oct 27, 2010 5:49am Oct 27, 2010 5:49am
Quoting jointhepips
Chris,

Still waiting on the IPhone app, will it be available directly at the App store??
iphone? any chance of getting one for a real communication device, like a blackberry?
  • #1,363
  • Oct 27, 2010 1:15pm Oct 27, 2010 1:15pm
Quoting jointhepips
Chris,

Still waiting on the IPhone app, will it be available directly at the App store??
Surely, GO will be supplying the i phone with the app installed
FF journal: Peaks and Troffs
  • #1,364
  • Oct 27, 2010 6:31pm Oct 27, 2010 6:31pm
Quoting bogus
Surely, GO will be supplying the i phone with the app installed
Unfortunately not... but it should be easy for you all to download soon. We are just waiting on the final delivery of the app. There should also be a Blackberry and Android app, but they may be a few months down the line.
  • #1,365
  • Oct 27, 2010 7:58pm Oct 27, 2010 7:58pm
The P.I insurance, the capital requirement + the trust account almost is 100% protection. Of course, there are chances of a dodgy scheme coming in and stealing. But the likelyhood of them even getting approval for an AFSL is very low.

There are a few options on capital requirements. You will need to research the ASIC guidelines to find that out.

I am unsure what this moh guy is on about. He clearly does not know the current regulations in Australia. He has been beating it with a sharp stick for a while now.

If your funds are required to pay out other client due to insolvency, the capital requirement should cover your loss. And if it doesn't fraud has been commiteed and PI insurance will.

All these are mandatory under ASIC guidelines. You cant even APPLY for an AFSL without approval for PI insurance.

Go-markets rep. Posting the documents wouldn't really give any help to any company. Insurance brokers and lawyers know exactly what to find and how to find it. And they also specify the recommended level of cover.

Sorry to hijack your thread
  • #1,366
  • Edited 1:04am Oct 28, 2010 12:44am | Edited 1:04am
Quoting Steph
iphone? any chance of getting one for a real communication device, like a blackberry?
It doesn't get any "reala" than an iphone. They are expensive overseas, and the warranty isn't as great [vs purchasing from the USA/uk/Au. But the iphone or android smartphones are ideal for multitasking.

The blackberry is a good phone for multitasking also, but a little rigid on the browser and internet side. Their newest phones finally put more internal memory.

Trading via a phone exclusively is not a good idea, unless you have fast speeds or are using wi-fi. Better to use the desktop or laptop. The phone should be a backup to close or maybe open positions if the laptop is not available.

TaskID or gomarkets, would an individual affected by a fall be able to post a claim directly to the insurance company?

These procedures should be clearly defined in terms/disclosure of the broker. I didn't see this in gomarkets or vantagefx literature.
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #1,367
  • Oct 28, 2010 3:44am Oct 28, 2010 3:44am
Guys
Yes ASIC is to blame for creating this situation with respect to OTC product providers
I also though that ASIC AFSL was good enough BUT the situation with Sonray has exposed this . Having AFSL does not protect the mum and dad client of a OTC broker.
We just had the Sonray administrators' complete the investigation and it has revealed
1) PI does not seems to cover for fraud.. or most unlikely
2) Fact remains that any deficiency in client seg account ( becasue of any reason) means the clients become Unsecured creditors

I am on the creditor's committee and So I know what I am talking about.. I am not saying GO markets have bad intentions .. all I am saying is the salespeople don;t tell you the FACT in the worst case scenario it is only in fine print

With IB, the SIPC comes in to picture.
WIth ASX participant status the National Gurante fund comes in to picture Why don;t you get it OTC products are not covered in same way.

Risk is risk
  • #1,368
  • Oct 28, 2010 4:29am Oct 28, 2010 4:29am
Quoting moksha
Guys
Yes ASIC is to blame for creating this situation with respect to OTC product providers
I also though that ASIC AFSL was good enough BUT the situation with Sonray has exposed this . Having AFSL does not protect the mum and dad client of a OTC broker.
We just had the Sonray administrators' complete the investigation and it has revealed
1) PI does not seems to cover for fraud.. or most unlikely
2) Fact remains that any deficiency in client seg account ( becasue of any reason) means the clients become Unsecured creditors

I am on the creditor's...
I am surprised that GO's PI insurance is covering crook behavior in fact I will contact my insurance broker tomorrow and see if I can get one too.
Segregated account means absolutely nothing, just imagine going to NAB and explain to the banker at the teller that you are moksha and would like to withdraw your funds from the GOMarket account because they went belly up, he? I reckon in no time the police will escort you out of that branch and driving you in a mental institution.
So the only way to overcome this issue is to deposit your funds at NAB under your name ready to fund your trading account when needed and yes you already told me that this is not a solution for you but what else can you do at the moment?
  • #1,369
  • Oct 28, 2010 6:47am Oct 28, 2010 6:47am
Quoting Pipstrumpf
I am surprised that GO's PI insurance is covering crook behavior in fact I will contact my insurance broker tomorrow and see if I can get one too.
Well the go markets rep has come on here and stated that they have it. From what I know if they state they have it then they have to have it. You can't make false statements like that when you have a AFSL.

I personally feel better knowing go markets does have it, and I wish IB offered it for FOREX and Futures trading.

From what I have read about Sonray it was fraudulent trading, dealing and hiding losses and I read nothing of them having this insurance. I don't think based on that, sonray being mainly CFDs on stocks that you can compare them to Gomarkets, Sonray had a dealing desk... Gomarkets doesn't have a dealing desk and go markets don't have cfds on stocks. From what i understand they don't hedge their own exposure so there's no trade risk which from what read was the main cause of the problems at Sonray. IMO it's like comparing apples to oranges

Cheers.
  • #1,370
  • Oct 28, 2010 6:56am Oct 28, 2010 6:56am
Sonray also offered FX, not just CFD
and in any case CFD or FX the Client money / seg account remains the same
The only way there is any protection in Australia is if Shares are held under HIN via a ASX participant broker
SO for that reason it is apples and apples between Sonray and GM
I studied the PDS OF ALL remaining brokers.


Insurance wise .. until Go markets shows the insurance clause without any obligation I won;t believe them ... BECAUSE I know for a fact through the creditor's meetings that Sonray also had PI BUT THAT DOES NOT COVER your own staff fraud...

Many people seemed to be annoyed that I keep raising this question
But is it not more relevant now? that because of changes in US regulations many of uS and Eu clients are looking for Non US but safer jurisdictions for FX ! and many might be thinking about Australia with it's good standing in recent GFC . ( many US brokers are opening Aus branches like FXCM / IBFX etc)
READ the PDS .. before blaming me

SO as one of the victim of recent OTC broker collapse I think I am doing a good deed by pointing out the issues exposed here .. we had Opus Prime, Storm Financial and now Sonray.. it has exposed the deficiency in this segment of ASIC operations
So don't blame me or shut me for raising this.
  • #1,371
  • Edited 7:33am Oct 28, 2010 7:20am | Edited 7:33am
Quoting moksha
Sonray also offered FX, not just CFD
and in any case CFD or FX the Client money / seg account remains the same
The only way there is any protection in Australia is if Shares are held under HIN via a ASX participant broker
SO for that reason it is apples and apples between Sonray and GM
I studied the PDS OF ALL remaining brokers.
their main business was market made cfds on ASX shares. there is the problem in house hedging and trading!!


Quote
Insurance wise .. until Go markets shows the insurance clause without any obligation I won;t believe them ... BECAUSE I know for a fact through the creditor's meetings that Sonray also had PI BUT THAT DOES NOT COVER your own staff fraud...
so you're saying there liars, have you called them to discuss it like they asked you too?

Quote
Many people seemed to be annoyed that I keep raising this question
But is it not more relevant now? that because of changes in US regulations many of uS and Eu clients are looking for Non US but safer jurisdictions for FX ! and many might be thinking about Australia with it's good standing in recent GFC . ( many US brokers are opening Aus branches like FXCM / IBFX etc)
READ the PDS .. before blaming me
there sick of and so am I hearing someone blame everything apart from the people that ripped you off. the individuals responsible at sonray! ASIC is not at fault sonray is.

Quote
SO as one of the victim of recent OTC broker collapse I think I am doing a good deed by pointing out the issues exposed here .. we had Opus Prime, Storm Financial and now Sonray.. it has exposed the deficiency in this segment of ASIC operations
So don't blame me or shut me for raising this.
I'm sorry but i'm sick of this dribble, your like the US government right now. all you're is a cut up sonray client that got burnt by fraud on the part of Sonray so now your out to piss on every aussie broker.

if this is all your going to post I would prefer if you made one man protest out the front of ASIC as I am sick of hearing this crap.
  • #1,372
  • Oct 28, 2010 7:23am Oct 28, 2010 7:23am
I live in Melbourne and have been using GoMarkets for a few months.

I am happy with the spreads, execution and service. Can't really ask for much more.

My only criticism is that GM seem to have a lot of "Invalid Tick/Market Data..." error messages in the journals.

A couple of times I have spoken with the people there and am happy with what I heard.

I get the impression that they are not as well capitalised as big Brokers like Gain Capital, although I get the strong vibe that they are well run and reputable.
  • #1,373
  • Oct 28, 2010 7:36am Oct 28, 2010 7:36am
Acopalpto
Coem to next Creditor's meetimng adn you will se eteh amger at both Sonray and ASIC adn Saxo

I am not here to piss every Aus broker .. what I am doing is pointing to FACTS
As they stand and As ASIC allows
(toothless watchdog)
READ the bloody PDS of all remaining brokers

I am sick of hearing your US crap also

ASIC is the body who bloody allows OTC to be like that
And what happened to Sonray clients can happen to any other clients even as reputable as Comsec

By the way Peter from Melbourne I am not saying that Go market is dishonest please understand. the point is about the Fine print and what happens when things go wrong .. as a simple as that...
  • #1,374
  • Edited 8:19am Oct 28, 2010 7:53am | Edited 8:19am
Quoting moksha
Acopalpto
Coem to next Creditor's meetimng adn you will se eteh amger at both Sonray and ASIC adn Saxo

I am not here to piss every Aus broker .. what I am doing is pointing to FACTS
As they stand and As ASIC allows
(toothless watchdog)
READ the bloody PDS of all remaining brokers

I am sick of hearing your US...
what i understand is and read about sonray.... if a company runs a dealing desk and opts to part hedge exposure like sonray on highly leveraged instruments like share cfds that can gap 10-20% per day!!!! they have dealers that lose on hedges they the business can be at risk so how is it the fault of asic that some traders at sonray fucked up? it's simple don't trade with a market maker. then you have a GFC with massive moves an they try to trade out and make massive losses, then the business goes under.

go markets are stp with no dealing desk they apss off the exposure I have asked them this, so how can this happen to them.... you're so far off the mark. Sonray had a poor business model among other thing already noted. nothing more nothing less.

it's about the product traded and the management not the regulator. no matter how well you regulate there will always be a instance of collapse or fraud. you can never completely get rid of it unless you ban investment all together.
  • #1,375
  • Oct 28, 2010 7:27pm Oct 28, 2010 7:27pm
Having just gotten said PI insurance. I can tell you that it covers any staff member of breaching the corporations act or the RG146 guidelines.

As far as I can see, in order for someone to commit fraud, they need to breach those guidelines. The problem would be if the accusation ended up at fraud, they would not be covered as the company breached the insurance terms (illegal activity).

Although, a broker to actually get that far would have to be there intentionally to defraud people. People running real brokerages, would be covered by PI Insurance. Of course no insurer will cover someone for illegal activity. But the question now is, are you accusing people of illegal activity, or merely trying to make a point that because you got scammed everyone else is going to get scammed? Because statistics would show that to be incorrect.

The ASIC processes are probably the toughest in the world. In order to obtain and maintain an AFSL status, you really have to be working hard at complying with all aspects of the law. My assumption on sonray would be that they did not have adequate capital or hedging processes in place or someone jumped ship. I havent really investigated the situation but I'd say they were running legit for some time to be actually able to get away with 'fraud'.

Let me put it this way.. Being regulated by ASIC is like well.. Having your balls stapled to your chair with a big 7 foot giant behind you saying COMPLY COMPLY COMPLY.

If it were the NFA on the other hand.. Well, no comment.
  • #1,376
  • Edited 8:39pm Oct 28, 2010 8:23pm | Edited 8:39pm
It gets pretty spicy in here!

Obviously I know that safety of funds and insurance is important, so rather than keep going over this here is our final say on the matter.

Under s912B of the Corporations Act, Australian Financial Services licensees such as GO Markets must have arrangements for compensating retail clients for losses they suffer as a result of a breach by the licensee or its representatives of their obligations in Chapter 7 of the Corporations Act.

GO Markets has Professional Indemnity Insurance for compensation in respect of any civil liability resulting from any breach of professional duty by GO Markets in its conduct of its professional business.

Insurer – Lloyd’s of London

Amount - $6,000,000 any one claim and $12,000,0000 in the aggregate

Covers –

· Any principal, partner, director or employee of the company or other entity specified in the policy;
· Breaches of professional duty by GO Markets and its representatives in its conduct of its professional business;
· Fraud and dishonesty by directors, employees and other representatives;
· Legal costs are covered in addition to indemnity limit;
· EDR (External Dispute Resolution) scheme awards.

Now, lets get back to the business of how marvellous GO Markets are...
  • #1,377
  • Oct 28, 2010 8:25pm Oct 28, 2010 8:25pm
Quoting peterc005
I live in Melbourne and have been using GoMarkets for a few months.

I am happy with the spreads, execution and service. Can't really ask for much more.

My only criticism is that GM seem to have a lot of "Invalid Tick/Market Data..." error messages in the journals.
You will be interested and pleased to hear that yesterday we signed a contract for a brand-new server infrastructure and even though nobody should get delays even now, the brand new servers in a world-class facility in Sydney will mean that connection, reliability and execution will surely be even better.

Especially people in Australia should notice better speeds as the connection only has to shoot "down the road".
  • #1,378
  • Oct 29, 2010 12:33am Oct 29, 2010 12:33am
Quoting GoMarkets
Under s912B of the Corporations Act, Australian Financial Services licensees such as GO Markets must have arrangements for compensating retail clients for losses they suffer as a result of a breach by the licensee or its representatives of their obligations in Chapter 7 of the Corporations Act.
Quoting Takisd
Having just gotten said PI insurance. I can tell you that it covers any staff member of breaching the corporations act or the RG146 guidelines.
Ok. I do want to confirm here, the PI insurance covers the BROKERAGE, not the client? Or it protects the client indirectly, but the brokerage would of course have to receive the money first, and then give the losses back to the clients?

is there a way for individual traders to protect themselves, besides due diligence on the broker? I know that a few hundred dollar account wouldn't need it. But as your funds get much bigger, or if your funds are already big, i could see the need for this.
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #1,379
  • Edited 10:15am Oct 29, 2010 8:52am | Edited 10:15am
Quoting GoMarkets
You will be interested and pleased to hear that yesterday we signed a contract for a brand-new server infrastructure and even though nobody should get delays even now, the brand new servers in a world-class facility in Sydney will mean that connection, reliability and execution will surely be even better.

Especially people in Australia should notice better speeds as the connection only has to shoot "down the road".
this sounds really good........ great to see your working to improve the system even more.

Better spreads and faster execution would be great. Especially the execution improving, this will be a bigger plus as I mainly scalp. please let us know when the new servers will be up and running.

PS any idea when the I phone app will be out and available?
  • #1,380
  • Oct 30, 2010 3:08am Oct 30, 2010 3:08am
I noticed on MT it's possible to open a buy and sell order at the same time, on the same currency. Is that really allowed?
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