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  • #40,661
  • Edited 7:16am Aug 13, 2024 6:52am | Edited 7:16am
The recent poll from pipfarm speaks clearly and loudly what I already thought.

The majority of "traders money" on a prop farm are already profitable and invest by far less than what they get on payouts, for $1 spent they earn $4.

So there is no chance for any no A-booking prop farm to survive, if the incoming challenge fees as revenue stream is BY FAR less than overall payouts.
  • #40,662
  • Aug 13, 2024 7:04am Aug 13, 2024 7:04am
Quoting TrAndy1
The recent poll from pipfarm speaks clearly and loudly what I already thought. The majority of traders on a prop farm are already profitable and makes to a payout and invest by far less than what they get on payouts. So there is no chance for any no A-booking prop farm to survive, if the incoming challenge fees as revenue stream is BY FAR less than overall payouts.

  1. Despite potential high earnings, only one in three clients at trader-funded firms makes any money.?????

What I am missing here?

  • #40,663
  • Edited 8:11am Aug 13, 2024 7:08am | Edited 8:11am
Quoting Takisd
we have been helping firefighters with food and I just caught up on this conversation. Darwinex is becoming popular and it raises many questions on what the market will accept. - Will market accept 30 day pay period? - Will market accept lower profit splits ? - Will market accept risk adjusted trading in funded stage? Of course the price point is a vital factor but always the twitterverse says these things are unacceptable. are the smart ones accepting it?
Yes, the smart ones are accepting it. Payout isn't even monthly, it's quaterly. This is what the prop firms were pretending to be. If this was introduced first, people would love it. However, we were spoiled with the weekly payout, 80% profit split and to that the simple response is.......15% of something is better than 80% of nothing. Other than the giants that already exist (FTMO, perhaps 5%ers), these firms fail quicker than are popping up....Regulators don't like them, Metatrader hates them, brokers want them gone. The question one needs to ask is given path A (Darwinex) or path B (scammenowfunding), where will you as a trader be in a year? 2 years? 4 years? I built 4 firms over the course of 4 years and I have exactly 0 dollars AUM from that work. Yes, I made some money, but the revenue stream is gone.
  • #40,664
  • Aug 13, 2024 7:25am Aug 13, 2024 7:25am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, the samrt ones are accepting it. Payout isn't even monthly, it's quaterly. This is what the prop firms were pretending to be. If this was introduced first, people would love it. However, we were spoiled with the weekly payout, 80% profit split and to that the simple response is.......15% of something is better than 80% of nothing. Other than the giants that already exist (FTMO, perhaps 5%ers), these firms fail quicker than are popping up....Regulators don't like them, Metatrader hates them, brokers want them gone. The question one needs...
The payout is actually 75% of REAL profits....Darwinex charges investor 20% and splits 75/25 with trader, so 15/5. Yes, perhaps they could pay better on the initial seed allocations before trader is opened up to investors, but I'm sure that is built into the model.
  • #40,665
  • Aug 13, 2024 7:31am Aug 13, 2024 7:31am
Quoting montygoldy
CLosing Asian maybe done for the day..... Not feeling it.. Took 2 trades on gold both losers........ 15 days winning streak broken 150kx12 = 9022$ CPI/ppi DAY GOING TO YOLO SOME 150K {image}
I Yolo'ed one of my apex for Long (Core PPI m/m). Did good ! Thanks for the tip Monty !
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #40,666
  • Aug 13, 2024 7:40am Aug 13, 2024 7:40am
Quoting TrAndy1
Exclusive: Poll Reveals 60% of Prop Firm Clients Lose Funds, Investing $4,300 on Average Tuesday, 13/08/2024 | 13:05 GMT+2 by Damian Chmiel 90% of 459 PipFarm's study participants take part in challenges of 2-5 different props, Finance Magnates has learned. Despite potential high earnings, only one in three clients at trader-funded firms makes any money. {image} In the high-stakes world of financial markets, proprietary trading has been surging in popularity. However, this arena remains...
this is one of the most stupid c-trader advertisments this kid has done so far. The metaquotes comment is stupid considering revnues from props who lose metatrader drop 80+%. They only surveyed ctrader users and still a large number thinks metatrader matters.
  • #40,667
  • Aug 13, 2024 8:53am Aug 13, 2024 8:53am
Todays NQ scalp results on my personal.
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  • #40,668
  • Aug 13, 2024 8:55am Aug 13, 2024 8:55am
Quoting TrAndy1
Todays NQ scalp results on my personal. {image}
so why post here
  • #40,669
  • Aug 13, 2024 8:59am Aug 13, 2024 8:59am
Quoting procrude
{quote} I Yolo'ed one of my apex for Long (Core PPI m/m). Did good ! Thanks for the tip Monty !
I woke up late missed the action maybe i'll try tomorrow with CPI ....
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #40,670
  • Aug 13, 2024 9:06am Aug 13, 2024 9:06am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} I woke up late missed the action maybe i'll try tomorrow with CPI ....

Wall Street (1987) - Wake up call (Drop it) (youtube.com)
  • #40,671
  • Aug 13, 2024 9:14am Aug 13, 2024 9:14am
Quoting TrAndy1
Todays NQ scalp results on my personal. {image}
ic markets europe?
  • #40,672
  • Aug 13, 2024 9:15am Aug 13, 2024 9:15am
Today's update

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  • #40,673
  • Aug 13, 2024 9:26am Aug 13, 2024 9:26am
Quoting montygoldy
CLosing Asian maybe done for the day..... Not feeling it.. Took 2 trades on gold both losers........ 15 days winning streak broken 150kx12 = 9022$ CPI/ppi DAY GOING TO YOLO SOME 150K {image}
Usually i avoid trading on NY session..... But i thought why not give it a shot for recovering the asian losses and keep the winning day streak continue.... 250 more bucks to go.... Two quick 40 points scalps on my beloved DOW


EDIT - AND the streak continues
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #40,674
  • Aug 13, 2024 9:37am Aug 13, 2024 9:37am
Quoting TrAndy1
Exclusive: Poll Reveals 60% of Prop Firm Clients Lose Funds, Investing $4,300 on Average Tuesday, 13/08/2024 | 13:05 GMT+2 by Damian Chmiel 90% of 459 PipFarm's study participants take part in challenges of 2-5 different props, Finance Magnates has learned. Despite potential high earnings, only one in three clients at trader-funded firms makes any money. {image} In the high-stakes world of financial markets, proprietary trading has been surging in popularity. However, this arena remains...
Why conduct a poll when they have the data? Why not conduct a scientific study using their data? Polls can be used if there is random sampling, meaning there are many firms involved.
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #40,675
  • Aug 13, 2024 10:02am Aug 13, 2024 10:02am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} so why post here
How is it that a supposed baller is reduced to trading CFD futures (with peanut sized profits) and then bragging about it?
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #40,676
  • Aug 13, 2024 12:05pm Aug 13, 2024 12:05pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} How is it that a supposed baller is reduced to trading CFD futures (with peanut sized profits) and then bragging about it?
banks don't want us to know this.
  • #40,677
  • Aug 13, 2024 12:36pm Aug 13, 2024 12:36pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} banks don't want us to know this.
  • #40,678
  • Aug 13, 2024 12:59pm Aug 13, 2024 12:59pm
Quoting TrAndy1
The recent poll from pipfarm speaks clearly and loudly what I already thought. The majority of "traders money" on a prop farm are already profitable and invest by far less than what they get on payouts, for $1 spent they earn $4. So there is no chance for any no A-booking prop farm to survive, if the incoming challenge fees as revenue stream is BY FAR less than overall payouts.
A messy study with unclear methodology is likely just for attention. A trader could make a million dollars this year and lose five million dollars the next. In the long run, if any data is available, only Darwinex's data can be considered somewhat reliable. How can all these firms have data when they don't even have a published track record? Which is noise, and which is signal?
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #40,679
  • Aug 13, 2024 1:00pm Aug 13, 2024 1:00pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Usually i avoid trading on NY session..... But i thought why not give it a shot for recovering the asian losses and keep the winning day streak continue.... 250 more bucks to go.... Two quick 40 points scalps on my beloved DOW EDIT - AND the streak continues {image} {image}
Closing day... Streak up....... LAst running trade......
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #40,680
  • Aug 13, 2024 2:50pm Aug 13, 2024 2:50pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} Why conduct a poll when they have the data? Why not conduct a scientific study using their data? Polls can be used if there is random sampling, meaning there are many firms involved.
don't encourage him with his math and his polls and his sources (I mean, c'mon, "pipfarm"?). stop it with the math, and just effing read the candles/market. Christ...
A snails pace wins the race :-)
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