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  • #40,501
  • Aug 10, 2024 9:55pm Aug 10, 2024 9:55pm
The allocation and score as of now stands like this to my eyes.

The risk engine may have different ideas, which I do not know
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Intraday only.
  • #40,502
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:01pm Aug 10, 2024 10:01pm
Quoting navk
{quote} Look at my stats. Max drawdown is just 3.19 %. And returns are reasonable. For any prop firm, 3.19 % is very good. I would be surprised if the so called risk engine ( black box ) slashes the numbers. I am waiting till next Monday
Darwinex cutting a little is not a problem; what matters is that the current risk ratio remains around 1 or more. The maximum current risk ratio is 2. If the current risk ratio is cut down (like me) to something like 0.12, it would automatically need to go through the next 45 days cycle punishment, and it is unlikely to generate a good profit gain.

Quoting navk
The allocation and score as of now stands like this to my eyes. The risk engine may have different ideas, which I do not know {image}
It is very good, however, you will need to go through the Silver Phase for another month after calibration. If successful, with a rating of 75, you can receive a minimum allocation of 30k Euro.
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  • #40,503
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:05pm Aug 10, 2024 10:05pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} Darwinex cutting a little is not a problem; what matters is that the current risk ratio remains around 1 or more. The maximum current risk ratio is 2. If the current risk ratio is cut down (like me) to something like 0.12, it would automatically need to go through the next 45 days cycle punishment, and it is unlikely to generate a good profit gain.
what is risk ratio ?

Return / Max draw down ?
Intraday only.
  • #40,504
  • Edited 11:50pm Aug 10, 2024 10:10pm | Edited 11:50pm
You guys are looking at the risk engine all wrong.

It's not "slashing" your profits. It's reducing your trade size because you're taking on too much risk. If you're losing 13 THOUSAND dollars in 2 weeks then your overleveraged. PERIOD. The risk engine isn't punishing you it's protecting investors from traders with bad risk management. The fact that someone recovers from that type of drawdown is irrelevant. What if they don't recover? What if they go down -23K? -36K? . Investors would NEVER invest if they knew a trader was allowed to lose 50% of their account. And then there would be no sustainable model, no Gold level, and no future for us as Darwinex traders.

This "black box" victimhood narrative is getting old real quick.

The VaR, the risk engine, the D leverage is all documented on their website. Are there some little nuances that maybe we don't fully understand? Could be. But the big picture is pretty clear.

Putting a rule in that you can only lose 0.3% isn't the model they offer. So if you lose 0.4% on one trade then what? You lose your account? Like a prop firm. What if your SL is set at 0.3% but you get slippage during news and you lose 0.35%? Then what? They have to add news rules? You lose your account? You have to go bitch in Discord? Darwinex doesn't want or need that Pandora's box.

There has been more than enough discussion along with real time results posted by traders regarding how they trade and how the risk engine has functioned in their own personal context. More than enough info to understand how to trade without whining about how we are being brutalized by the big bad wolf.

Ok rant over. Carry on now
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #40,505
  • Edited 10:23pm Aug 10, 2024 10:10pm | Edited 10:23pm
Quoting navk
{quote} what is risk ratio ? Return / Max draw down ?
VaR Ratio = (Target VaR/Strategy VaR)
https://www.darwinexzero.com/docs/risk-engine

My current risk ratio = 0.12
My Monthly VAR now = 39.61%
My Darwin risk target now: 5.43%

So if this continues for the next 45 days cycle, the risk ratio will be adjusted. There has already been a slight improvement since now it is 5.43%/39.61% = 0.14.
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  • #40,506
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:13pm Aug 10, 2024 10:13pm
After following the discussion on Darwinex, I think I will stick with MFFX and Apex better
Simple rule for Apex for 50k aim for $300 per trading day
  • #40,507
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:24pm Aug 10, 2024 10:24pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} VaR Ratio = (Target VaR/Strategy VaR) https://www.darwinexzero.com/docs/risk-engine
Clear objectives are missing.

We pay them subscription.

They need to say atleast :

1. What is preferable D Leverage they look for

2. What can be VAR for differenr periods by a table.

I am just writing above to my knowledge.

They can add more objectives.

Then... they should say what the risk engine do for not meeting objectives
Intraday only.
  • #40,508
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:25pm Aug 10, 2024 10:25pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} VaR Ratio = (Target VaR/Strategy VaR) https://www.darwinexzero.com/docs/risk-engine My current risk ratio = 0.12 My Monthly VAR now = 39.61% My Darwin risk target now: 5.43% So if this continues for the next 45 days cycle, the risk ratio will be adjusted. There has already been a slight improvement since now it is 5.43%/39.61% = 0.14. {image} {image}
This info appears after Darwin is created ?
Intraday only.
  • #40,509
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:35pm Aug 10, 2024 10:35pm
Quoting Expo33
What if they don't recover? What if they go down -23K? -36K?
I've mentioned before that we should set a limit where the account should not lose more than -5.62% each month. That's all

Quoting Expo33
Putting a rule in that you can only lose 0.3% isn't the model they offer. So if you lose 0.4% on one trade then what? You lose your account? Like a prop firm. What if your SL is set at 0.3% but you get slippage during news and you lose 0.35%? Then what? They have to add news rules? You lose your account? You have to go bitch in Discord? Darwinex doesn't want or need that Pandora's box.
They will cut it off in no time; it’s their job to close it if the rules are in place. We're discussing the merits and drawbacks of their model, not turning the risk engine into a tyranny.

Quoting navk
{quote} This info appears after Darwin is created ?
Exactly, and the date calculation is recorded 10 days after the first trading day.

Quoting navk
{quote}... Then... they should say what the risk engine do for not meeting objectives
Exactly. Not a sky-high definition like a NASA engine, and not a psychology-based explanation that is less clear.
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #40,510
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:39pm Aug 10, 2024 10:39pm
You pay the subscription without knowing what are the obectives for calibration.

You do trading for 15 days based on info picked up in forum and trade. After 15 days, the risk engine evaluates and tell you if you or good at trading or not.

If not good, they do not tell you what to do... you continue to pay subscription, thinking that based on allocation calculator you are going to get 30k everymonth
Intraday only.
  • #40,511
  • Aug 10, 2024 10:47pm Aug 10, 2024 10:47pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} I've mentioned before that we should set a limit where the account should not lose more than -5.62% each month. That's all {quote} They will cut it off in no time; it’s their job to close it if the rules are in place. We're discussing the merits and drawbacks of their model, not turning the risk engine into a tyranny. {quote} Exactly, and the date calculation is recorded 10 days after the first trading day. {quote} Exactly. Not a sky-high definition like a NASA engine, and not a psychology-based explanation...
Yes, you are correct.

Let them run risk engine, let them cut the trades.

What is the criteria and when it cuts trades, the trader must know.

Instead, they mis lead by showing different numbers !! ( until 15 + 7 day calibration is over)
Intraday only.
  • #40,512
  • Edited 11:06pm Aug 10, 2024 10:50pm | Edited 11:06pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} As expected. Darwin has to have a system in place to protect investors. You simply can go down 13K in a couple of weeks without the risk engine stepping in and mitigating risk. Now she will have 2 options. Start a new account or have her leverage severely reduced for a couple of months
The forum members can expect this, because you have come across and experienced in this model

Was the trader aware what is the objective during 15 day calibration ?
Intraday only.
  • #40,513
  • Aug 10, 2024 11:16pm Aug 10, 2024 11:16pm
Quoting navk
{quote} Yes, you are correct. Let them run risk engine, let them cut the trades. What is the criteria and when it cuts trades, the trader must know. Instead, they mis lead by showing different numbers !! ( until 15 + 7 day calibration is over)
Quote
Darwinex Zero works with 6.5% monthly target VaR using a 95% confidence level. This means that DARWINs mighte be expected to lose 6.5% or more 1 month out of 20, or 5% of the time. Conversely, 95% of the time or 19 months out of 20, this same investment will make more than -6.5%.

In 20 months, we are expected not to lose more than -55%, -6.50% a month. That is Darwinex Zero VaR. But during calibration, when the drawdown reached -6.50, they did not act to freeze the account. That’s what is surprising. It just doesn’t sit right with me. Not macth. Thats all.
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  • #40,514
  • Aug 10, 2024 11:26pm Aug 10, 2024 11:26pm
Quoting navk
{quote} The forum members can expect this, because you have come across and experienced in this model Was the trader aware what is the objective during 15 day calibration ?
Was the trader aware?

Well, if they put in the required work. Yes they would be aware. It's all spelled out on the website. I'm assuming you didnt read the docs on the VaR, risk engine, or D leverage.

Anyways good luck. Probably best for some to stick with the traditional props.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #40,515
  • Aug 11, 2024 12:18am Aug 11, 2024 12:18am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Was the trader aware? Well, if they put in the required work. Yes they would be aware. It's all spelled out on the website. I'm assuming you didnt read the docs on the VaR, risk engine, or D leverage. Anyways good luck. Probably best for some to stick with the traditional props.
The darwinex model trading is best match for Traditional prop firm live account. Trust me.

My darwinex model statts in 13 days :

Max draw down 3.2 %.

Real gain : 3.9 %.

Assuming that I trade in similar way in traditional prop firm, then :

In another 12 days, I am expected to see real gain 7.8 % ( 7800 usd )

My profit share is 7800 x 0.8 = 6000 usd.
Intraday only.
  • #40,516
  • Aug 11, 2024 12:25am Aug 11, 2024 12:25am
Quoting navk
{quote} The darwinex model trading is best match for Traditional prop firm live account. Trust me. My darwinex model statts in 13 days : Max draw down 3.2 %. Real gain : 3.9 %. Assuming that I trade in similar way in traditional prop firm, then : In another 12 days, I am expected to see real gain 7.8 % ( 7800 usd ) My profit share is 7800 x 0.8 = 6000 usd.
For traditonal forex prop you first you have to risk $500 up front and earn 13-15% without breaking any rules before you even start to have an opportunity to earn a single penny. Comparing apples to oranges.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #40,517
  • Aug 11, 2024 12:28am Aug 11, 2024 12:28am
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} {quote} It is very good, however, you will need to go through the Silver Phase for another month after calibration. If successful, with a rating of 75, you can receive a minimum allocation of 30k Euro.
I am going to continue darwinex model,

Do you mean to say, i need to trade 30 days minimum after calbration 15 days ?
Intraday only.
  • #40,518
  • Aug 11, 2024 12:33am Aug 11, 2024 12:33am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} For traditonal forex prop you first you have to risk $500 up front and earn 13-15% without breaking any rules before you even start to have an opportunoty to earn a single penny. Comparing apples to oranges.
Not necessarily.

Look at my stats.

Max draw down 3.2 %

My gain until now is 3.87 %.

Very minimum risk, I am taking.

If my going is like this in traditional prop firm, I am expected to gain 15 % profit ( to pass challenge) in another 6 to 8 weeks, It is fine.

Then live account trading, i can gain 4 to 5 % easily in this way of trading ( darwinex zero kind of trading )
Intraday only.
  • #40,519
  • Aug 11, 2024 12:35am Aug 11, 2024 12:35am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} For traditonal forex prop you first you have to risk $500 up front and earn 13-15% without breaking any rules before you even start to have an opportunity to earn a single penny. Comparing apples to oranges.
In prop firm model, we loose challenge as well as live account due to excessive lot size
If one trades 2 lots max in traditional prop firm, they will not loose account.
Intraday only.
  • #40,520
  • Edited 1:37am Aug 11, 2024 1:10am | Edited 1:37am
Quoting navk
{quote} I am going to continue darwinex model, Do you mean to say, i need to trade 30 days minimum after calbration 15 days ?
If you meet the 3 requirements, your account will automatically be included in Darwinex Silver for August once it is created. So, trade until the end of August. Results will be announced, possibly on September 1st. It’s great if you want to continue; the strength of Darwinex’s subscription model you dont have to pay big for the first time. Although the rules are very complex, at least we already know the basics. There are pros and cons.

https://www.darwinexzero.com/docs/darwinia-silver

Quoting navk
{quote} In prop firm model, we loose challenge as well as live account due to excessive lot size If one trades 2 lots max in traditional prop firm, they will not loose account.
Monthly profits, whether trading small or big, are not guaranteed. With traditional prop firms, you can easily slip below their drawdown requirements and lose a lot of money. Even if you truly succeed, it will still take you at least 3 months to achieve 10% to 15% and be able to withdraw your refund (that’s just the test phase), and there’s no guarantee you’ll get paid. Then, regarding their live performance, are you sure it’s really from their live accounts, or is it just a demo simulation without being passed on to a broker? For example, MetaTrader will gladly provide a license guarantee for them if, after passing the test, they continue trading live with the broker.

I believe that Darwinex Zero has its own capital; trades from traders are forwarded to live accounts (from the signal account to the Darwinex Zero live account) to generate profits, and they are a firm backed by a broker.

"bad apple to good apple"
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