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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #36,161
  • May 8, 2024 3:07am May 8, 2024 3:07am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Any link for that guy ?

Inserted Video
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #36,162
  • May 8, 2024 4:00am May 8, 2024 4:00am
Quoting genuine007
{quote} Thank God, I finally passed phase1, But its just mini 5k account, Still its okay to push me if I receive payout I kept extra 40 $ in my bank account to purchase the next 5k account in case something bad happens & some petty cash to pay internet bill, phone recharges & tv connection recharge I passed Phase1 But still I am not happy. WHY? Because I did not follow my strategy fully. I break some of my rules like :- I did not wait for tp to hit in all the entries except the last winning trade I did not wait for the next setup to arrive, but...
Wow, Passed phase 2, very smoothly
This attempt went really good for me
Now account is in review, hopefully get funded
some trades are still updating, todays trades not showing

Please someone tell me the process of fundingpips
like KYC, Signature, Document Uploads etc
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  • #36,163
  • May 8, 2024 4:27am May 8, 2024 4:27am
I don't get it. Prop firms make their living by people blowing accounts and buying new accounts.

At FTUK they have a rule that you are not allowed to risk more than 2% per trade. If you do so, they used to issue a warning. Now they even made a tool closing the trade automatically, so that the trader does not violate - and thereby might blow the account.

WHY???? What's in it for them to keep the accounts from blowing?
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MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #36,164
  • May 8, 2024 5:39am May 8, 2024 5:39am
Quoting RiskFighter
I don't get it. Prop firms make their living by people blowing accounts and buying new accounts. At FTUK they have a rule that you are not allowed to risk more than 2% per trade. If you do so, they used to issue a warning. Now they even made a tool closing the trade automatically, so that the trader does not violate - and thereby might blow the account. WHY???? What's in it for them to keep the accounts from blowing? {image}
i would imagine its to deter the prop traders who don't care about the longevity of an account, there are some i have seen on twitter who basically attempt to pass phase 1 with 1 trade + scalein, same with phase 2, then risk 2%+ on the funded and make as much as possible before they inevitable hit the 5 trade loss streak (probably only 4 when you account for slippage and commission) these guys are probably the least favorable customers, as they come in, and churn through accounts to the point the firm is at a lose-lose in terms of 'warehousing' the trades or actually letting them touch the live market, as the customer will most likely win big and lose big in no particular order
  • #36,165
  • May 8, 2024 5:50am May 8, 2024 5:50am
Quoting RiskFighter
I don't get it. Prop firms make their living by people blowing accounts and buying new accounts. At FTUK they have a rule that you are not allowed to risk more than 2% per trade. If you do so, they used to issue a warning. Now they even made a tool closing the trade automatically, so that the trader does not violate - and thereby might blow the account. WHY???? What's in it for them to keep the accounts from blowing? {image}
I believe this is because E8 made like that (it's a soft breach, no violating the account). If they violated it would be worse than E8.

Also, this is what props should do if they want to seem reputable, no matter if they make money on our failed challenges.

There is absolutely no reason to allow a daily DD in 2 phases challenges to be violated. I know we, as traders, should be responsible but if they care so much about traders, as they (falsely) say, they have technical solutions to avoid us violating daily DD.

I remember when Finotive had SL in all orders in 60 seconds. We missed one and had to repeat all the challenge.

In Funding Pips and CTI they also demanded SLs in all orders in 60 seconds but they closed trades after 60 seconds, without breach, if the SL was not there. This is what a serious prop should do (and Funding Pips is not even a serious prop).
  • #36,166
  • May 8, 2024 6:01am May 8, 2024 6:01am
Takisd
Who is it ?
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  • #36,167
  • May 8, 2024 6:17am May 8, 2024 6:17am
Quoting Capablanca
Takisd Who is it ? {image}
My guess is thinkmarkets
  • #36,168
  • May 8, 2024 6:20am May 8, 2024 6:20am
Quoting RiskFighter
I don't get it. Prop firms make their living by people blowing accounts and buying new accounts. At FTUK they have a rule that you are not allowed to risk more than 2% per trade. If you do so, they used to issue a warning. Now they even made a tool closing the trade automatically, so that the trader does not violate - and thereby might blow the account. WHY???? What's in it for them to keep the accounts from blowing? {image}
Making people take more trades increases the failure rate.

They're attempting to filter out the gamblers who will fail a few evaluations and funded accounts but then take massive pay outs who can't really be risk managed.
  • #36,169
  • May 8, 2024 6:39am May 8, 2024 6:39am
Sad that Au can't trade ICmarket funded
Hopefully think market is eligible for Au
  • #36,170
  • May 8, 2024 6:52am May 8, 2024 6:52am
Think but think has always been a really shit company and they are not a big broker. Apparently just being a shit marketing company broker makes you big. Most props are bigger than them
  • #36,171
  • May 8, 2024 7:07am May 8, 2024 7:07am
Quoting RiskFighter
I don't get it. Prop firms make their living by people blowing accounts and buying new accounts. At FTUK they have a rule that you are not allowed to risk more than 2% per trade. If you do so, they used to issue a warning. Now they even made a tool closing the trade automatically, so that the trader does not violate - and thereby might blow the account. WHY???? What's in it for them to keep the accounts from blowing? {image}
you will find that if you close the trade in loss it will eliminate the chance of it coming back. Also as retail traders go into drawdown they tend to take on more risk for recovery. These trades gathering -2% losses on dailys will increase the probability of ruin of traders who otherwise have no edge. It will also increase the speed of ruin for a lot of them whilst lowering the profitability of those who do make profit from high risk. So the benefit is from two different sides.
  • #36,172
  • May 8, 2024 7:14am May 8, 2024 7:14am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} you will find that if you close the trade in loss it will eliminate the chance of it coming back. Also as retail traders go into drawdown they tend to take on more risk for recovery. These trades gathering -2% losses on dailys will increase the probability of ruin of traders who otherwise have no edge. It will also increase the speed of ruin for a lot of them whilst lowering the profitability of those who do make profit from high risk. So the benefit is from two different sides.
I'm surprised how they didn't join this with a time limit to lure people even more because that would be the cherry on the cake, making it virtually impossible to recover.
  • #36,173
  • May 8, 2024 7:42am May 8, 2024 7:42am
I am ok with these rules because I also believe that most traders shouldn't be funded. Its not a right and people need to stop expecting it to be one. But no matter how hard Matt Leech tries to lie to the public that his new rules are in the favor of the traders, its built because they do not know what they are doing.

There are a bunch of things that need to be satisfied for order flow to be useful.

- Quantity of data
- Quality of data
- Removal of toxic flow
- Ability to clean data of any toxic flow to preserve alpha

The majority of people passing props, including myself, do not provide quality or quantity of data. Which immediately makes the order flow toxic and we can assume no one in the market right now can clean it without having the quantity. As more of these broker hedger cheats enter the book as well the amount of randomness becomes unmanagable and the data quality continues to fall.

If you shape a prop firm model to tick all these boxes then I will support it. If you don't tick these boxes, its just a casino.

Some rules that would be necessary for data usage are things like a minimum number of traders to pass (full trades not the 0.01 crap the min days props had), minimum hold time (scalping flow general leads to price feed and depth decay as most makers don't want this order flow), news has to be gone without question for similar reasons to the min trade time.

With this in mind, how many people are going to bitch and moan about a prop firm with these things? A lot, because everyone thinks that rules are caging a tiger but it is the reality of markets. Its the same as the whole "i am a scalper" bullshit. No one can scalp consistently, long term, with large ticket sizes. You will always lose to the market as the liquidity adjusts to your orders (if you are being executed). The reason for this is there is no alpha on the other side and so your flow is toxic. Someone with a hold time of 30 minutes or more is more likely to be long term consistent than any scalper. If all your order flow is 30min or more you can manage the liquidity well and providers will be fine with having the trades with large tickets sent to them. So spreads will stay narrow and costs will stay low.

With all the above in mind, it tells you all you need to know about the current players in the field from both sides.
  • #36,174
  • May 8, 2024 8:02am May 8, 2024 8:02am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Just to follow up on what I said. I get my beloved Meta4(for now anyways). I can trade any way I like. No SL rules, news rules, weird consistency rules, IP address issues, and on and on. I don't have to rush for fear that the rug pull may be just around the corner. No ridiculous profit caps. All I need to do is earn 3-5% per month and I'll have a nice gig for my retirement years And I just like the idea of attracting real capital from real investors. Nobody named Matt, Blake, or Scamgelo. Plus in the first year the total cost to me is 106...
Hello Expo33,

I trust you are well.

Thank you for taking the time & effort to provide updates with the Darwin Zero Model. I have taken a glance at it & of the opinion that it is a far superior model to conventional retail prop.

I will sign up for it without delay & look forward to monitoring how their AI functionality progresses.

My risk will be 0.25% of the $100k, equity with, most entries 30 PIP Stop & 60-75 PIP TP.

I then use the profits accumulated to increase position size as each position closes with the result my starting position size for FX will be 0.83 LOT & the 20th profitable order executed will be 0.94 with a gain in the region of 13%. With the result my risk is static at 0.25% of Equity all through the process.

I normally break the order into 5 parts with 1 At Market entry and the other 4, 2 Limit Orders & Stop Orders on both ends of the At Market Price so the risk is even further mitigated but Orders are filled whichever way the Instrument bounces around before it eventually kicks off, if repainting a lot.

Could you kindly advise whether you're aware if I can load orders split like that or I will have to fire in a single order. I didn't raise an enquiry with them since I suspected you may already be aware whether or not that is permissible within their rules.

Thanking you in advance for your feedback.
Des
My success is due to The Great Napoleon Hill. May His Name Live Forever
  • #36,175
  • May 8, 2024 8:36am May 8, 2024 8:36am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Just to follow up on what I said. I get my beloved Meta4(for now anyways). I can trade any way I like. No SL rules, news rules, weird consistency rules, IP address issues, and on and on. I don't have to rush for fear that the rug pull may be just around the corner. No ridiculous profit caps. All I need to do is earn 3-5% per month and I'll have a nice gig for my retirement years And I just like the idea of attracting real capital from real investors. Nobody named Matt, Blake, or Scamgelo. Plus in the first year the total cost to me is 106...
Hmm I wish you the best with it but....

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I still use them as a broker and they are fine but the zero thing? a quarterly 15% high water mark pay out based on an imaginary risk adjustment return only they decide without publishing actual criteria is stretching it a bit and to charge folk for it..
  • #36,176
  • May 8, 2024 9:32am May 8, 2024 9:32am
Quoting Takisd
I am ok with these rules because I also believe that most traders shouldn't be funded. Its not a right and people need to stop expecting it to be one. But no matter how hard Matt Leech tries to lie to the public that his new rules are in the favor of the traders, its built because they do not know what they are doing. There are a bunch of things that need to be satisfied for order flow to be useful. - Quantity of data - Quality of data - Removal of toxic flow - Ability to clean data of any toxic flow to preserve alpha The majority of people passing...
With the enormity of data that FTMO as inhouse, can't they use it to early detect group of traders in challenge phase that tick these boxes and that, eventually, as a group, will behave well in funded phase ?
  • #36,177
  • May 8, 2024 9:39am May 8, 2024 9:39am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} With the enormity of data that FTMO as inhouse, can't they use it to early detect group of traders in challenge phase that tick these boxes and that, eventually, as a group, will behave well in funded phase ?
This is where those who can shine will shine. I can't speak for anyone obviously but it requires ideas and exploring ideas to do something. It requires knowledge of various things and relationships. It also requires trustworthy coders and other things. FTMO I believe are trying to convert "retail traders" into "institutional traders" via their system. Which to me says that its just b to a via a long arduous process. As we know FTMO bans people with NDA's or cuts leverage etc. That is obviously one way to do it providing you eliminate toxic traders who no edge promptly (and face the backlash of twitter tears). Others are investing in scams like west water associates and LTI proprietary. They claim to be fund managers but what they offer is essentially a ponzi scheme. I believe E8 and Peaks have invested in such a scheme but there are others im unaware of.

Could FTMO be doing things with data? Yes. Are they? probably not on a large scale if at all.
  • #36,178
  • May 8, 2024 9:41am May 8, 2024 9:41am
Do we have a excel guru here? can he design a good worksheet to calculate the 30% consistency rule by adding there trades for 10 days. I am so confused with that sh*t.

By the way today's longs on NQ were a no brainer. So as gbpusd longs.
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #36,179
  • May 8, 2024 11:45am May 8, 2024 11:45am
Quoting genuine007
{quote} But don't you think 6 to 7 years of track record is not easy to build, who will wait for 7 years to manage 1 million dollars and its not just about the track record, its about understanding its risk engine first because if we don't understand it how can we build that score which is required our strategy can double the account in just 2 weeks if it worked but that includes serious floating drawdown meaning stop loss as the lot size is big when we see explore page of darwinex, we see that traders have different return % and drawdown % and...
There's many traders managing a million or more in 3 years.

I'm 57 and basically retired from corporate life so it's more of a hobby for me with zero stress. For a younger person I think it's a good opportunity for very little investment. Time is on your side, unless you get run over by a train tomorrow.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #36,180
  • May 8, 2024 11:50am May 8, 2024 11:50am
Quoting Desbinary
{quote} Hello Expo33, I trust you are well. Thank you for taking the time & effort to provide updates with the Darwin Zero Model. I have taken a glance at it & of the opinion that it is a far superior model to conventional retail prop. I will sign up for it without delay & look forward to monitoring how their AI functionality progresses. My risk will be 0.25% of the $100k, equity with, most entries 30 PIP Stop & 60-75 PIP TP. I then use the profits accumulated to increase position size as each position closes with the result my starting position...
You're welcome Des.

I'm not aware of any rules against loading that way. Good luck!
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
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