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  • #34,261
  • Apr 7, 2024 5:10am Apr 7, 2024 5:10am
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  • #34,262
  • Apr 7, 2024 5:12am Apr 7, 2024 5:12am
Lots of denials and very much delays on payouts at Bespoke now.
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Already delisted here because of the above.
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  • #34,263
  • Apr 7, 2024 5:16am Apr 7, 2024 5:16am
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  • #34,264
  • Edited 6:22am Apr 7, 2024 5:16am | Edited 6:22am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} the standard accounts at FTMO are useless. If you ever used that kind of margin in excess what they provide on SWING accounts you can get caught at FTMO. I just hope they are not restrictive in relative terms on Swing leverage. Then you cannot have more than 20 lots or so on a 200k account. But even then, if you ever used more than 2% as Stoploss for a swing trade, you could also be considered gambling at FTMO.
Even the 30:1 leverage on FTMO Swing account is useless. I saw several cases that the leverage was reduced to 5:1 because traders were accused of gambling/doing one-sided betting, but FTMO never gives clear definitions of over-leverage/gambling/one-sided betting. FTMO wants traders to use high-leverage to do the challenges and fail, that's why they offer 100:1 on standard accounts and 30:1 on swing accounts, but they do not tolerate traders using high-leverage on funded accounts. How high is considered 'high' leverage? I don't know, no one knows. It's totally up to FTMO.

Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Given the very high challenge fees, they are not doing a favor for themselves as they can loose some reputation. There was a reason why MFF got the biggest prop, because of such hidden rules and high challenges fees. There will be a new bigger prop than FTMO in the next 12 months or so from now on, I am pretty sure. FTMO is very selfish it seems.
It's very clear that MFF was the best Forex prop with the best quality-price ratio and without hidden rules. If MFF hadn't been shut down, FTMO would have been struggling for survival. FTMO should thank CFTC.
  • #34,265
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:04am Apr 7, 2024 7:04am
Quoting TrAndy1
{image}
I would have expected FTMO in the top 3…
  • #34,266
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:19am Apr 7, 2024 7:19am
New prop on the way from UAE with profit limits per month as "solution" for them being stable and survive on the prop market. Karma Prop Trader launching soon.


"Majority of prop firms tend to have a good start to them. However, once the prop firm scales to a certain point, they either disappear or struggle with payouts. Why does this happen?

There are a many factors that can could cause this, such as mismanagement of reserves, offering traders an evaluation that is too good to be true (large discounts, extremely large overall drawdown, extremely affordable pricing), no goals to diversify revenue streams of the business.

However, a key factor (not limited to this) I believe that will help @karmaproptrader scale and ensure no payout denials to successful legitimate traders, is setting a limit on payouts. This is what we at @karmaproptrader will be doing. There will be a 15% payout request limit per payout frequency and 25% limit per month. Any additional % made above 15% at the payout request will not be carried forward and will be an indication to the trader to reduce risk to sustain the account. By doing this, @karmaproptrader will be able to scale sustainably, and also offer successful traders what they want without facing issues in the future.
By the way, you can request your payout every 4 business days after your first payout."
  • #34,267
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:23am Apr 7, 2024 7:23am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Even the 30:1 leverage on FTMO Swing account is useless. I saw several cases that the leverage was reduced to 5:1 because traders were accused of gambling/doing one-sided betting, but FTMO never gives clear definitions of over-leverage/gambling/one-sided betting. FTMO wants traders to use high-leverage to do the challenges and fail, that's why they offer 100:1 on standard accounts and 30:1 on swing accounts, but they do not tolerate traders using high-leverage on funded accounts. How high is considered 'high' leverage? I don't know, no one...
FTMO had to pull out of the USA and even if they go back they can't use the most popular platform.

Not sure they'll be thanking the CFTC for losing their largest country of revenue.

I actually think CEO and other senior people running the show think there are / they'll actually find profitable traders they can generate alpha from. Perhaps it's just a really good front from them and I should be a little more cynical.

Props are getting hit hard by toxic flow. Some of it was specific to MT4/5 since that was designed from the group-up to allow abuse (originally for brokers). However, the reverse hedging, news trading, one-sided bets and lots of other toxic strategies that have been adopted at scale came after MFF were shut down. I doubt MFF would have been able to continue as they were with the current way prop clients behave. The CEO was already in discussion to move anyone who'd made over 5% profit to a harder group (not just the cheaters, before the MFF apologists pick up on this).

The FX props who all raced to the bottom with offering the most generous conditions are the ones in financial woe.

Quoting Takisd
{quote} This is a reason to stay away not to go near. Metaquotes will remove the US for sure.
Agreed, and not only that if MQ find out the firm / broker is offering their product to the US they may take away the rest of the world too.

Quoting TrAndy1
New prop on the way from UAE with profit limits per month as "solution" for them being stable and survive on the prop market. Karma Prop Trader launching soon. "Majority of prop firms tend to have a good start to them. However, once the prop firm scales to a certain point, they either disappear or struggle with payouts. Why does this happen? There are a many factors that can could cause this, such as mismanagement of reserves, offering traders an evaluation that is too good to be true (large discounts, extremely large overall drawdown, extremely affordable pricing), no goals to diversify revenue streams of the business. However, a key factor (not limited to this) I believe that will help @karmaproptrader scale and ensure no payout denials to successful legitimate traders, is setting a limit on payouts. This is what we at @karmaproptrader will be doing. There will be a 15% payout request limit per payout frequency and 25% limit per month. Any additional % made above 15% at the payout request will not be carried forward and will be an indication to the trader to reduce risk to sustain the account. By doing this, @karmaproptrader will be able to scale sustainably, and also offer successful traders what they want without facing issues in the future. By the way, you can request your payout every 4 business days after your first payout."
"We will survive by building payout denial into the program".

At least it's transparent.
  • #34,268
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:24am Apr 7, 2024 7:24am
Anyone get a funny sense about some of the most popular firms lately? I start to get a vibe that a lot of the firms are completely insolvent. I am going to have to be specific and careful to not end up tied up in some bankruptcy.

Whilst I am all for the prop firm pile on and hatred, I find it funny and most of the people running these firms are qualified to work at starbucks at best, its a bit of a shame. I feel that the retail groups have gamed the system too much including myself. If I have figured out how to make sure I pass without cheating then I am sure others have as well and this destroys the math of the prop model. If they had average purchase sizes similar to brokers (1250 or more) then things would be fine - but they don't.

My thoughts are that rules have to change.

Max trading days has to return (60 I think is fair)
Min (actual) trading days has to return, no 0.01's until pass 5 days per phase suffices including funded.
Some sort of risk parameter has to enter the market, i prefer this to be around margin usage and not lot size.
News has to go, all these simulated environments are better than market for news trading. No retail trader is consistently making money on a news spike prop or otherwise.
Minimum trading time has to be implemented. Monetizing data takes time to effectively do it effectively. People who require the ability to be in and out in 5 seconds should open a brokerage account.
If there is no data based monetization, a route to A-book must be made and made clear. For example, it could be 4 phases, 2 phases which are not funded, 2 that are funded but fake and 5th phase is real money or a percentage of real money.
Retail traders should be informed on what to expect from A-book as well because it will be worse than most prop conditions in most instances. If a trader hits the A-book phases they have no room to complain about trading conditions because the prop would not be setting them.

With all the above considered, I think the industry is in a futile state where the traders will not accept what is necessary to make it last long term, and the props will not accept the high risk low reward that would occur from the above rules.

We, the consumers, expect too much. They the owners expect too much and as a result here we are.

Milk it whilst its good.
  • #34,269
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:25am Apr 7, 2024 7:25am
Quoting TrAndy1
New prop on the way from UAE with profit limits per month as "solution" for them being stable and survive on the prop market. Karma Prop Trader launching soon. "Majority of prop firms tend to have a good start to them. However, once the prop firm scales to a certain point, they either disappear or struggle with payouts. Why does this happen? There are a many factors that can could cause this, such as mismanagement of reserves, offering traders an evaluation that is too good to be true (large discounts, extremely large overall drawdown, extremely...
karma is run by a pathetic child who originally was an affiliate. This rule set just assures that it is infact a ponzi.
  • #34,270
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:26am Apr 7, 2024 7:26am
Another new prop launching soon.... https://matrisx.com/
  • #34,271
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:30am Apr 7, 2024 7:30am
Quoting TrAndy1
New prop on the way from UAE with profit limits per month as "solution" for them being stable and survive on the prop market. Karma Prop Trader launching soon. "Majority of prop firms tend to have a good start to them. However, once the prop firm scales to a certain point, they either disappear or struggle with payouts. Why does this happen? There are a many factors that can could cause this, such as mismanagement of reserves, offering traders an evaluation that is too good to be true (large discounts, extremely large overall drawdown, extremely...
sounds like a step in the right direction…
  • #34,272
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:32am Apr 7, 2024 7:32am
Another new prop launching soon... https://straightforwardpropfunding.com/ https://twitter.com/SFFfunding
"We are the No Challenge Prop Firm, Scale up to $3.2M, Initial Profit Split 70/30"
  • #34,273
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:48am Apr 7, 2024 7:48am
These LIONS already started recently: https://fundedlions.com/ & https://lionheartfundingprogram.com/ and this one will start soon: https://lionfunded.com/
  • #34,274
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:53am Apr 7, 2024 7:53am
This prop is also new from a Barclays dropout and course seller (as failed trader), at least he worked at Tier 1 institution in his past : https://getfundednow.com/
  • #34,275
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:54am Apr 7, 2024 7:54am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Some of them yes. But not all. Fundedpeaks for sure is not their own infra.
Thanks. I see a type of website template looks similar.

Wouldn't it be radical if a late 90's early 2000's type template was used? Without all of the visual bullshit.
  • #34,276
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:57am Apr 7, 2024 7:57am
This recently launched prop FIRMITY will restart again with total different trading conditions and pricing as they did not start so well a few weeks ago. May be worth a look for 2 minutes or so in 2 weeks when the new program is implemented on their website: https://firmity.co.uk/

Why Firmity V2? Here is what you can expect.

Custom Drawdown: 12% Max Drawdown 4-8% Daily Drawdown
Profit Targets: 7% Phase 1, 4% Phase 2
Custom Splits : 70/30 80/20 85/15 90/10 100/0
Custom Payout Times: On Demand
7 Days 14 Days 21 Days 30 Days
Custom Leverage: 1:10 - 1:500
Minimum Trading Days: 1 Minimum Day.
Evaluation Sizing: 3k Evaluation 5k Evaluation 10k Evaluation 15k Evaluation 25k Evaluation 50k Evaluation 100k - 500k Evaluation

Scaling? Scale on your first payout. By 50% ! !
Launching Codes? 150% Refund Upon Passing. ( 150%)
40% Off (40%)
FREE 5K Evaluation (FREE5k123) (200 Users)
20% Evaluation Split ( EVALSPLIT)

Firmity V2. You Asked, We Listened.
  • #34,277
  • Apr 7, 2024 7:59am Apr 7, 2024 7:59am
Quoting TrAndy1
These LIONS already started recently: https://fundedlions.com/ & https://lionheartfundingprogram.com/ and this one will start soon: https://lionfunded.com/
So lions are the animal of choice these days it seems for the discount challenge industry. the 2nd one looks stupid.
  • #34,278
  • Apr 7, 2024 8:00am Apr 7, 2024 8:00am
IC Funded said they will start in around 2 weeks worldwide and making announcement tomorrow or on Tuesday, and again confirming they are official partner of IC.
  • #34,279
  • Apr 7, 2024 8:02am Apr 7, 2024 8:02am
Quoting Takisd
Anyone get a funny sense about some of the most popular firms lately? I start to get a vibe that a lot of the firms are completely insolvent. I am going to have to be specific and careful to not end up tied up in some bankruptcy. Whilst I am all for the prop firm pile on and hatred, I find it funny and most of the people running these firms are qualified to work at starbucks at best, its a bit of a shame. I feel that the retail groups have gamed the system too much including myself. If I have figured out how to make sure I pass without cheating...

prop model revised:
max days, why limit the challenge etc?!? other than operative reasons and to try to force traders to trade it out agressively, this rule is stupid. I entered prop just because they canceled this rule...slow plays, lower risk, this is the whole agenda later on you say about new model...so keep the unlimited time.
Minimum days, i dont know..beats me..

The most important factors are: profit share and leverage...
Prop model...with profit share of 40% for trader...(so much better that real prop industry of 20% of Pnl)...and stages of advancement....50% when you scale up etc....and one can reach to 80/90 split...but this could be a suistained model..

Leverage of course low...1:10; 1:20 etc...on funded..

One can play more on the challenges i guess (allowed leverage), to monetizze on the challenge fees and harvest fees on 90% ratio of traders failing..
50/50 split on funded is better on long-term for all participant even if this does not make sense now.
...with all this, it seems prop firm can be stable...more transparent.

But if we look only here on this thread, traders are in line to pay fees to emerging props with childish leaders just to pay for a dream. Well, even if dreams are made; the payout isnt.
  • #34,280
  • Apr 7, 2024 8:04am Apr 7, 2024 8:04am
Just a question for the better informed:

Forex Analytix (Blake Morrow) has a funded business as well. Any feed back on what they are like? I see they had 8cap but see it's not listed anywhere now.

Actually, it's hard to see what firms use now compared to months ago. Hmmm, getting hard to make an informed choice.
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