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  • #31,781
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:28am Feb 25, 2024 11:28am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Also do monthly PA fees. If account survives 85$ is nothing as compared to 2K. Avoid one time fee its a trap
Isn't TrAndy advocating keeping the account alive 6-12months. $85pm will take a sizable chunk out of 2k. Surely the 1off fee is better option in this scenario
  • #31,782
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:28am Feb 25, 2024 11:28am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Regarding to consistency, i watched apex video yesterday, it seems they don't like traders using various trading sizes, when I trade fx, I risk a certain dollar amount per trade, and sometimes it can end up big trading size but the same amount of risk, I guess I can't do that in apex, I have to trade same trading size to be consistent, I dont like that part.
If you're consistent on your daily profits then you are fine. They aren't going to look at each trade under a microscope. I've yet to see anyone denied payout who were consistent.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #31,783
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:32am Feb 25, 2024 11:32am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Regarding to consistency, i watched apex video yesterday, it seems they don't like traders using various trading sizes, when I trade fx, I risk a certain dollar amount per trade, and sometimes it can end up big trading size but the same amount of risk, I guess I can't do that in apex, I have to trade same trading size to be consistent, I dont like that part.
Nope only daily P&L matters. You can do anything as long as you trade your P&L within a range.
  • #31,784
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:39am Feb 25, 2024 11:39am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} If you're consistent on your daily profits then you are fine. They aren't going to look at each trade under a microscope. I've yet to see anyone denied payout who were consistent.
Thank you Cryptosurf..
you mentioned you trade dow and nq n futures, do you also trade 6e and 6b?
I have been trading Eur and gbp for years, pretty comfortable with them.. being new to es and nq, it may take time for me to learn to be profitable
  • #31,785
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:46am Feb 25, 2024 11:46am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Thank you Cryptosurf.. you mentioned you trade dow and nq n futures, do you also trade 6e and 6b? I have been trading Eur and gbp for years, pretty comfortable with them.. being new to es and nq, it may take me time to learn to be profitable
Nope, I have no desire to either. Apex is intraday only so your trades have to be closed out at EOD. IMO Indicies are extremely easy to trade after the open when they are the most liquid. First half hour is jittery so I usually wait to see what happens after the 10:00 EST candle.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #31,786
  • Feb 25, 2024 11:58am Feb 25, 2024 11:58am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Thank you Cryptosurf.. you mentioned you trade dow and nq n futures, do you also trade 6e and 6b? I have been trading Eur and gbp for years, pretty comfortable with them.. being new to es and nq, it may take time for me to learn to be profitable
FX futures you will have no issue with on sim, it will trade just like retail FX. Be careful when you reach live though with actual money, futures are harder to trade than retail FX. Getting the right fills on things like stops can be complicated. Most agile futures traders do not trade news etc because they are faced with true market realities. There are some who manage to do so but its very few and the longevity is questionable.

When I learned futures, I only ever learned how to trade on limit, it means I end up with less contracts in the end but its easier to navigate. I only hit market to close all (when i take losses) and the fills generally suck. Staying away from volatility is the cure to that.
  • #31,787
  • Feb 25, 2024 12:12pm Feb 25, 2024 12:12pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Right now the retail eval space is "having a moment". I plan to start buying again in April once things are more stable. If I buy again it will be FTMO, Funded Engineer, MFF if it re-appears and perhaps some fish and chips at aqua if they decide to ditch the US, if they don't then I won't. Of the largest firms, I only think FTMO is solid, 5ers are having a moment right now, TFT is starting the rug process and I think its only a matter of time until Matt Leech ends up in a case. I am also refusing to touch anything that isn't using metatrader...
Why wonder why Aqua if that's the same owner than Blue and Flash ?
  • #31,788
  • Feb 25, 2024 12:20pm Feb 25, 2024 12:20pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Why to pay one time fee? If you have 150K account you pay monthly 85$ that will cover 4-5 months of monthly fees if account survives it pays for itself. Yea but here it kind of similar to forex but is more difficult as you need to pass threshold, consistency etc...Power of futures prop firm comes when you have multiple accounts like APEX
Never thought through that prism but you're right for higher accounts. I always analyzed for 50K which is 140 lifetime vs 85 monthly and still think that 140 lifetime is worthwhile because I plan to trade conservatively (if I ever get to funded, which I haven't yet).
  • #31,789
  • Feb 25, 2024 12:22pm Feb 25, 2024 12:22pm
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Tell me if i am wrong, the way I understand, I paid $31 entry fee for $150K Apex, Once PA, I need to pay $280 one-time fee, so total $311 fee for one $150K with $5k DD, which is equal to $622 for $10K DD for two future accounts combined ,,, almost the same cost as in forex $100K account with $10K DD . There are no more other fees in futures, am I right??
That's true just at starting point. As soon as you get profits the stop trails and you don't have the initial DD any longer, shifting the calculation to be much worse for futures because in forex you will have always the same static DD, no mater what happens.
  • #31,790
  • Feb 25, 2024 12:23pm Feb 25, 2024 12:23pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Why wonder why Aqua if that's the same owner than Blue and Flash ?
I like fish and chips. Also I am less likely to take something seriously when its so cartoonish.
  • #31,791
  • Feb 25, 2024 2:17pm Feb 25, 2024 2:17pm
Quoting TrAndy1
I mean that reverse hedging across personal broker live accounts does not need to be so bad for prop firms. If you fail 10 times before you get your payout, you still make a profit because you had your fees everytime recovered. And the prop firm still makes money too because of so many failed challenges before from you. So it could turn out to be a WIN WIN Situation. But of course with the markets you never know how often you are going to fail before you get your payout. So it is not clear.
Its literally coin flipping both sides.
  • #31,792
  • Feb 25, 2024 2:44pm Feb 25, 2024 2:44pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Its literally coin flipping both sides.
Yep agree reverse hedging wont work with trailing stops and consistency rules and no news trading. If trader is persistent it might blow multiple accounts to get one payout, instead if he flips coin with proper money management will get better result.
  • #31,793
  • Feb 25, 2024 2:51pm Feb 25, 2024 2:51pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Yep agree reverse hedging wont work with trailing stops and consistency rules and no news trading. If trader is persistent it might blow multiple accounts to get one payout, instead if he flips coin with proper money management will get better result.
Its also impossible to hedge the flow. Its entire guesswork, its not fair to the prop to do it.
  • #31,794
  • Feb 25, 2024 4:22pm Feb 25, 2024 4:22pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Its literally coin flipping both sides.
If people (and prop firms) had studied a little mathematics, they would understand that flipping only 1 side randomly allows, in the long term, to obtain a significantly better result as soon as the variance is smoothed out (because all fees are divided by 2) Flip on both sides is a blessing for props because in the long term, the costs (spreads, slippage, various errors, etc.) become enormous for the trader who can even find himself losing. Total heresy. In any case, good money management by limiting exposure if we enter DD will always be better.
  • #31,795
  • Feb 25, 2024 4:29pm Feb 25, 2024 4:29pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} If people (and prop firms) had studied a little mathematics, they would understand that flipping only 1 side randomly allows, in the long term, to obtain a significantly better result as soon as the variance is smoothed out (because all fees are divided by 2) Flip on both sides is a blessing for props because in the long term, the costs (spreads, slippage, various errors, etc.) become enormous for the trader who can even find himself losing. Total heresy. In any case, good money management by limiting exposure if we enter DD will always...
people who studied a lot of mathematics know that this is only applicable when the deposit itself does not belong to the prop firm. If the person was coinflip hedging their own capital, absolutely correct. Costs = revenues = more fun.

But since the only way to hedge the coin flip is with ~10% of a 100-200k account and the fee is 400-600 usd. 1 loss as a broker is ~18x purchase value. So they would have to completely screw up 18 times before one live account could break even on an a-book. And if they didn't a-book and instead b-book the risk is unlimited and the trading itself holds no logic so making the correct decision of A/B/C is almost impossible. Its only hedging someones gambling addiction to try to get the end result as close to 0 as possible.
  • #31,796
  • Feb 25, 2024 5:25pm Feb 25, 2024 5:25pm
Does anyone here trade gold futures?

I've got a pretty solid strategy (MT4), and I'm wondering if it can be carried over to trading gold futures.
Truth is like poetry. And most people f*cking hate poetry.
  • #31,797
  • Feb 25, 2024 6:46pm Feb 25, 2024 6:46pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
That's a Deriv product offered a few years ago, they have all sorts of crazy synthetics.
-Thanks. Saw your comment over on BP. Sounds like a risky option.
  • #31,798
  • Edited 8:09pm Feb 25, 2024 7:58pm | Edited 8:09pm
Quoting rizla101
{quote} Isn't TrAndy advocating keeping the account alive 6-12months. $85pm will take a sizable chunk out of 2k. Surely the 1off fee is better option in this scenario
Yea in Ideal world yes it is better to have one time fee but again in ideal world you don't even need prop firm there is enough leverage available to grow account.
If you go to Apex payout website you will see only standard 2K or 1.5K payout as 99% account won't even survive past 3 months.
Lets say you have maximum allowed 20 50K PA account
If you pay life time fee $140 you pay $140 * 20 = $2800
If you pay monthly fee $85 you pay $85 * 20 = $1700
If you blow 50% of account which is actually a good scenario considering trailing drawdown you have wasted $1400 where as on monthly fees you wasted $850.
So you have technically saved 650$. You can buy 20 more challenges with same money or you can use that money for paying another monthly fees.
2 months time is more than enough to reach 2K target and if you are able to withdraw 20K does 850$ matters?
Its all about playing with house money.
  • #31,799
  • Feb 25, 2024 8:11pm Feb 25, 2024 8:11pm
Quoting Takisd
I got a DX Trade account and let me just say how pathetically shit that platform is. The people who develop and sell it should be completely ashamed of themselves. It really doesn't surprise me that these people have strung up a circlejerk deal with Mr Hertzberg, scum sticks to scum.
Except DX will be the engine for Trading View.

Won't seem as bad then.
  • #31,800
  • Feb 25, 2024 9:03pm Feb 25, 2024 9:03pm
Are there any FX Prop Firms that are currently accepting USA traders? What about E8 Markets? I tried their messaging & apparently no one is available?
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