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  • #30,801
  • Feb 16, 2024 12:55pm Feb 16, 2024 12:55pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} This just shows management is extremely bad. Why didn't they ask for the reports? Why didn't they cross check their progress? I hear a lot that these prop firms are managed by people who have no idea what is going on in their company and complain when they have work to do.
It all makes perfect sense.....

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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,802
  • Feb 16, 2024 1:15pm Feb 16, 2024 1:15pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Yeah that's right, wow time has flown by.
How has your experience been so far on Tradovate? I'm on Rithmic + Quantower
  • #30,803
  • Feb 16, 2024 1:26pm Feb 16, 2024 1:26pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} How has your experience been so far on Tradovate? I'm on Rithmic + Quantower
It’s not bad, I’m usually not in the trade for too long and my setups are pretty simple.

I had NT8 at one time with AMP and was bogged down with the learning curve, went back to MT5. Quantower has peaked my interest tbh, most likely will switch to that soon.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,804
  • Feb 16, 2024 1:30pm Feb 16, 2024 1:30pm
Quoting CableJ
The Apex sales picked up and have been constant monthly since the MFF takedown in Aug.
Of course that’s entirely unconnected with the fact that since then they’ve been offering discounts of 80% and sometimes 90%, almost continuously.

It’s still a horrible business run by a fraudster.
  • #30,805
  • Feb 16, 2024 1:35pm Feb 16, 2024 1:35pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} It’s not bad, I’m usually not in the trade for too long and my setups are pretty simple. I had NT8 at one time with AMP and was bogged down with the learning curve, went back to MT5. Quantower has peaked my interest tbh, most likely will switch to that soon.
Once you have Quant set up to your preference (a bit of a learning curve), it's a very good modern looking platform, I have no complaints.
  • #30,806
  • Feb 16, 2024 1:55pm Feb 16, 2024 1:55pm
Futures Prop Trading companies SUCK A$$, They all use Trailing Drawdown which is like a Trailing Stop it will only move up with profit but wont go down or reset. Your entries have to be PERFECT otherwise you will not make money. I am currently with Apex 150K, already had to reset the account once. I trade CL which I have experience with but the Trailing Drawdown (with Apex) got me once already. Good thing I like with Apex is that you can get up to 20 accounts and you can copy trades within tradovate (as groups). Once funded you can make good money but you have to be focused. I plan on doing S&P Mini and CL Contracts only.
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #30,807
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:03pm Feb 16, 2024 2:03pm
Quoting procrude
Futures Prop Trading companies SUCK A$$, They all use Trailing Drawdown which is like a Trailing Stop it will only move up with profit but wont go down or reset. Your entries have to be PERFECT otherwise you will not make money. I am currently with Apex 150K, already had to reset the account once. I trade CL which I have experience with but the Trailing Drawdown (with Apex) got me once already. Good thing I like with Apex is that you can get up to 20 accounts and you can copy trades within tradovate (as groups). Once funded you can make good money...
And remember with Apex once you're funded that trailing stops.

For FULL accounts:
In a paid/funded account, the max drawdown stops trailing when the liquidation threshold is at $100 plus the initial plan balance (i.e. $50,100 on a 50K plan). Another way to look at it is when your peak unrealized account balance is initial plan balance plus trailing drawdown amount plus $100, the trailing will stop.

How Does The Trailing Threshold Work? Master Course – Apex Trader Funding (atf.com)
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,808
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:13pm Feb 16, 2024 2:13pm
Quoting procrude
Futures Prop Trading companies SUCK A$$, They all use Trailing Drawdown which is like a Trailing Stop it will only move up with profit but wont go down or reset. Your entries have to be PERFECT otherwise you will not make money. I am currently with Apex 150K, already had to reset the account once. I trade CL which I have experience with but the Trailing Drawdown (with Apex) got me once already. Good thing I like with Apex is that you can get up to 20 accounts and you can copy trades within tradovate (as groups). Once funded you can make good money...
Yes trailing does completely suck, but at this point beggars can't be choosers lol. I pretty much calculated gamble the heavily discounted phase 1 @ 3 losses to bust risk, I lower the risk to 5 losses to bust upto the payout threshold, from there I significantly lower the risk to 10 losses = 40% of 5% total drawdown & compound from there.
  • #30,809
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:39pm Feb 16, 2024 2:39pm
ALPHA CODE 40% for today only "NAUGHTY40"
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #30,810
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:40pm Feb 16, 2024 2:40pm
so just noticed this disclaimer at one of the futures props, I believe it was elite:


CFTC RULE 4.41 - Hypothetical or simulated performance results have certain limitations. Unlike an actual performance record, simulated results do not represent actual trading. Also, since the trades have not been executed, the results may have under-or-over compensated for the impact, if any, of certain market factors, such as lack of liquidity. Simulated trading programs in general are also subject to the fact that they are designed with the benefit of hindsight. No representation is being made that any account will or is likely to achieve profit or losses similar to those shown. No representation is being made that any account will, or is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those discussed within this site, support and texts. Our course(s), products and services should be used as learning aids only and should not be used to invest real money. If you decide to invest real money, all trading decisions should be your own

So the CFTC has "rules" regarding simulated futures trading?


and Tradeday:

Simulated Trading; CFTC Rule 4.41: During the Evaluation Challenge, users trade in simulated
markets. Hypothetical or simulated performance results have certain limitations. Unlike an actual
performance record, simulated results do not represent actual trading. Also, since the trades have
not been executed, the results may have under-or-over compensated for the impact, if any, of certain
market factors, such as lack of liquidity. Simulated trading programs in general are also subject to
the fact that they are designed with the benefit of hindsight. No representation is being made that
any account will or is likely to achieve profit or losses similar to those shown.


Just proves, once again, it is not the simulated trading, it has EVERYTHING to do with CFDs being illegal in the US.
  • #30,811
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:55pm Feb 16, 2024 2:55pm
Quoting pipmaster77
so just noticed this disclaimer at one of the futures props, I believe it was elite: CFTC RULE 4.41 - Hypothetical or simulated performance results have certain limitations. Unlike an actual performance record, simulated results do not represent actual trading. Also, since the trades have not been executed, the results may have under-or-over compensated for the impact, if any, of certain market factors, such as lack of liquidity. Simulated trading programs in general are also subject to the fact that they are designed with the benefit of hindsight....
BINGO!
And if OANDA wants it will enable US traders to trade on their prop firm! Lets wait and see
  • #30,812
  • Feb 16, 2024 2:59pm Feb 16, 2024 2:59pm
[quote=montygoldy;14759270]ALPHA CODE 40% for today only "NAUGHTY40"[/quote

Do they accept Americans.
  • #30,813
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:01pm Feb 16, 2024 3:01pm
[quote=woody70;14759290]
Quoting montygoldy
ALPHA CODE 40% for today only "NAUGHTY40"[/quote Do they accept Americans.
Yes, hence the code "naughty" 40
  • #30,814
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:13pm Feb 16, 2024 3:13pm
Quoting JustPipMe
5%ers just said no more new US traders. Bye bye.
Very good news
  • #30,815
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:20pm Feb 16, 2024 3:20pm
Quoting vidvad
I have generally been opposed to the whole "prop firm" phenomenon. There was a time when prop firms were legitimate ways for traders to get access to training and funding. Navinder Sarao (aka "the Flash Crash" trader) accumulated tens of millions of profits as a prop trader with the now defunct Futex firm in the UK. I just recently became aware of TradeDay Funding, and their set up really looks close to the old school prop set up that was popular in the 1990's through 2010 or so. Two things are especially attractive and put TradeDay above the rest...
To pay $275 per month??? for 100k account...Tradeday is bad.
  • #30,816
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:22pm Feb 16, 2024 3:22pm
The simulated part has never been in question. Watching the toddlers of the "evaluation world" switch to "simulated funds" or "Virtual markets" is silly. The CFTC argument is whether or not two parties were part of a contract and if one of the parties was a retail trader. If you are part of a contract and a retail trader the facilitator of that contract requires RFED registration.

You can call your products poop and have your poop price follow gold. But the activity itself is what is in question by the CFTC. Are contracts exchanged? If its ONLY simulated, then you are introducing the users to a third party broker (who also isnt RFED registered). If you have your own server, you are making a market for OTC products at a minimum (in their eyes not mine) and require RFED registration.

The argument hasn't really been made either way. So far we have CFTC saying - you werent registered therefore fraud. In response it was "but it was simulated" and response to that has been "NUH UH I AM BOSS YOU MUST COMPLY". A real battle hasn't truly occurred yet, and is not likely to occur due to expense and inexperience.
  • #30,817
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:24pm Feb 16, 2024 3:24pm
[quote=pipmaster77;14759291]
Quoting woody70
{quote} Yes, hence the code "naughty" 40
Had not thought of that.
  • #30,818
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:24pm Feb 16, 2024 3:24pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} To pay $275 per month??? for 100k account...Tradeday is bad.
All futures prop firms works on subscription model. So you have only one month to pass. If you blow they will reset balance like new account. If you dont and leave account to drawdown its your responsibility.
  • #30,819
  • Feb 16, 2024 3:36pm Feb 16, 2024 3:36pm
Quoting Takisd
A real battle hasn't truly occurred yet, and is not likely to occur due to expense and inexperience.
-The sad reality. Regulators win again.
  • #30,820
  • Feb 16, 2024 4:05pm Feb 16, 2024 4:05pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} Very good news
Not for US citizens it isn't.
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