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  • #29,441
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:12am Feb 6, 2024 11:12am
Hello fellow prop traders,

Any one here got more than 7 payouts from the same prop firm? from what I see online in multiple forums, rite after 4 or 5 payouts the prop firm will keep a stricter eye on you and eventually ban you any un real reason.

I would appreciate an honest answer. Thanks.
The more you learn, the more you earn (Warren Buffett)
  • #29,442
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:15am Feb 6, 2024 11:15am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} when I flew closer to the sun @ higher risk per trade + didn't use a monthly % target, I scaled up @ FTMO, MFF & TFT. I have not scaled again since moving to a target % 11 months ago... the 5%ers has the best scaling plan.
by far, they scale every 10% regardless of how quickly (or slowly) you achieve it. Spreads are 0 on majors and under 1 on crosses. Only downside is the max 1 x 100K allocation. In reality, that limit is probably well planned and a great thing that will keep us able to use them long term. No need to list all of the reasons I state that.
You can actually have a 5K plus one other, doesn't sound like much, however the power in that is you can scale each to 500K. Obviously the 5K will take considerable more time. Perhaps one could trade that one much more aggressively to get their quicker as it is only $39 to replace.
  • #29,443
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:18am Feb 6, 2024 11:18am
Quoting procrude
Hello fellow prop traders, Any one here got more than 7 payouts from the same prop firm? from what I see online in multiple forums, rite after 4 or 5 payouts the prop firm will keep a stricter eye on you and eventually ban you any un real reason. I would appreciate an honest answer. Thanks.
It depends on the size of your payouts and the size of the prop. several >10K payouts at smaller firms & you will very likely be shown the door. My FTMO & MFF accounts are over 2 years old (well MFF would have been) and I received >7 payouts from both.
  • #29,444
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:20am Feb 6, 2024 11:20am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} by far, they scale every 10% regardless of how quickly (or slowly) you achieve it. Spreads are 0 on majors and under 1 on crosses. Only downside is the max 1 x 100K allocation. In reality, that limit is probably well planned and a great thing that will keep us able to use them long term. No need to list all of the reasons I state that. You can actually have a 5K plus one other, doesn't sound like much, however the power in that is you can scale each to 500K. Obviously the 5K will take considerable more time. Perhaps one could trade that...
100K limit is probably their way of achieving an undisclosed payout limit as we have been discussing.
  • #29,445
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:22am Feb 6, 2024 11:22am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} It depends on the size of your payouts and the size of the prop. several >10K payouts at smaller firms & you will very likely be shown the door. My FTMO & MFF accounts are over 2 years old (well MFF would have been) and I received >7 payouts from both.
In addition to MFF and FTMO, I have multiple payouts from TFF and TFTP. I am on my 3rd with the 5%ers.
  • #29,446
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:29am Feb 6, 2024 11:29am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} 100K limit is probably their way of achieving an undisclosed payout limit as we have been discussing.
Exactly, then as they allocate more through scaling, they already know what to do with the flow. Despite my initial resistance due to their instant funding model, I actually view the 5%ers as the closest thing to what we have been discussing this morning.
It appears, based on their offerings, they are trying to deter the classic prop firm gambler. They also have that rule of making at least 0.5% 3 separate days. They fit my style perfectly, TBH.
  • #29,447
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:38am Feb 6, 2024 11:38am
Quoting montygoldy
Question for prop firm traders anyone got their account scaled up??? Is it just a myth??
Yes TFT MFF E8, some are much easier than others. Tft for example was only 6% in 3month period to get 25% balance increase. Scaled several accounts with them. They also increase profit share when you scaled as well. Very good.

Not sure if this stands today, phased out nearly all US props.
  • #29,448
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:41am Feb 6, 2024 11:41am
Quoting PropDude1234
Scaling is stupid and serves to rush people. If you have 100k in notional value and 100/1 leverage, why do you need more than $10,000,000 in buying power?
It's not stupid because with a 10% DD in a 200K account you have, in fact, a 20K account.
If you scale to 250K you will have a 25K account.
It's additional free money.
  • #29,449
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:50am Feb 6, 2024 11:50am
Quoting procrude
Hello fellow prop traders, Any one here got more than 7 payouts from the same prop firm? from what I see online in multiple forums, rite after 4 or 5 payouts the prop firm will keep a stricter eye on you and eventually ban you any un real reason. I would appreciate an honest answer. Thanks.
I can't distinguish refunds and payouts but if I have excel counting the positive values (payouts and refunds) entered in my spreadsheet I see this (props with more than 7):

FTMO 28
TPT 27
True Forex 22
The Funded trader 19
MFF 16
FXIFY15
TST Fx 12
Alpha 11
Funding talent 11
Funded Next 7
E8 7

Not from a single account, obviously, but I'm the same trader.
My payouts are always almost all in 4 figures. I think I never got a 5 figures one or if I got it was in TFT but low.
I believe it's important to keep things low to avoid getting too much attention.
  • #29,450
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:55am Feb 6, 2024 11:55am
Regarding 5ers scaling please make sure to read this if you are not familiar with that.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post14587899

Reading this you can avoid a mistake of being postponing the next payout, as happened to me in my first scale because I didn't know about the mechanics of it (I know pipmaster is aware of that)
  • #29,451
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:04pm Feb 6, 2024 12:04pm
Quoting Capablanca
Regarding 5ers scaling please make sure to read this if you are not familiar with that. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post14587899 Reading this you can avoid a mistake of being postponing the next payout, as happened to me in my first scale because I didn't know about the mechanics of it (I know pipmaster is aware of that)
Yes, and even being aware I went over by 0.18 2 days shy of payout. No biggie, they take their cut and put your cut as a credit on the new account. Separate from balance so you get 100% of the credit (as they already take their cut)
  • #29,452
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:06pm Feb 6, 2024 12:06pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, and even being aware I went over by 0.18 2 days shy of payout. No biggie, they take their cut and put your cut as a credit on the new account. Separate from balance so you get 100% of the credit (as they already take their cut)
What a shame
The bad thing is that in 14 days you won't get that credit if you're not in profit.
It's true that it is added to your max DD, so it's not lost money, but anyway. When that happened to me I was stuck with 4 or 5 grands and delaying that pissed me off because I was not aware of the mechanics.
  • #29,453
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:13pm Feb 6, 2024 12:13pm
https://the5ers.com/8th-anniversary/

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5%ers 10%.PNG Size: 95 KB
  • #29,454
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:14pm Feb 6, 2024 12:14pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} What a shame The bad thing is that in 14 days you won't get that credit if you're not in profit. It's true that it is added to your max DD, so it's not lost money, but anyway. When that happened to me I was stuck with 4 or 5 grands and delaying that pissed me off because I was not aware of the mechanics.
So, not lost, just not paid until my next profitable cycle? Hope that is correct.
  • #29,455
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:28pm Feb 6, 2024 12:28pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, not lost, just not paid until my next profitable cycle? Hope that is correct.
Correct, not lost. But you need to be in profit to receive it. Otherwise is just an increase of DD.
  • #29,456
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:31pm Feb 6, 2024 12:31pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Yes
what is your experience with them
  • #29,457
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:39pm Feb 6, 2024 12:39pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, not lost, just not paid until my next profitable cycle? Hope that is correct.
Its best to not trade until you get payout. If you go under account starting balance all profits are lost. This happend to me.
  • #29,458
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:51pm Feb 6, 2024 12:51pm
Quoting woody70
{quote} Its best to not trade until you get payout. If you go under account starting balance all profits are lost. This happend to me.
Right. Although it's not lost in the true sense because let's say you are in 125 level with 12.5K DD.
If you had accumulated profits of unpaid payout of 3K, you'll have a 15.5K DD.
So I would say it's semi-lost.
  • #29,459
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:55pm Feb 6, 2024 12:55pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Right. Although it's not lost in the true sense because let's say you are in 125 level with 12.5K DD. If you had accumulated profits of unpaid payout of 3K, you'll have a 15.5K DD. So I would say it's semi-lost.
Yeah I had a losing streak waiting to collect and ate up the profits from previous account. Once you start trading on new account your loss will come from your profits first not your drawdown.
  • #29,460
  • Feb 6, 2024 12:56pm Feb 6, 2024 12:56pm
Quoting CableJ
Realistically, I think 20-30K would work for FTMO & TFT but it's way too high for firms like e8 or my flash.
-Perhaps. We cannot really know, for sure. We must also keep in mind how many traders would actually be able to achieve that. The fact that the traders that could actually do 100k/month would be capped at 20k could make a big difference. Now, you would need 5 great traders instead of one to reach that point because it dilutes the pool.

I think, if these firms could adopt a new model that is either subscription-based, or, structure it similarly to futures props, where you have many smaller accounts, then it might be viable.

Both, a subscription-based model, or, a model with many smaller but cheaper accounts, would help to create a more steady stream of cash-flow, which is the lifeblood of this business. Having many smaller accounts would force traders to have to take more challenges for the same amount of funding, which could significantly increase the firm's profit margins.

Let's say $30 for an account that offers 1k of draw-down allowance. If my math is correct, that is equivalent to a 100k account that offers 10k of draw-down for $300. In order to max-out capital with the $30 accounts, you would need to purchase 40 challenges (or whatever; firms can set their max allocation).

Most traders are not going to have 1.2k to go all-in and use a copier, which will force them to purchase accounts separately in order to build up to that point. The more challenges, the more turnover, meaning more profit, for the same amount of funding.

Even if the accounts are significantly cheaper, it should work out in the firm's favor, given the statistics on passing 2-phase challenges.

I can only speculate, though. I have no idea. It's interesting to think about and I am hopeful that this space will evolve to something that is more stable and reliable.
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