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  • #28,061
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:52pm Jan 10, 2024 12:52pm
Quoting woody70
It does not matter to me if its a live account or not.

How about if it isn’t a live account and they tell you it is? Does that matter to you? Do you want them to be liars or honest?
  • #28,062
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:02pm Jan 10, 2024 1:02pm
How about if it isn’t a live account and they tell you it is? Does that matter to you? Do you want them to be liars or honest?[/quote]

As long as Im paid I do not care. I do not let my payments go above 4k and you should not either. Keep them small and milk it for what its worth.
  • #28,063
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:10pm Jan 10, 2024 1:10pm
I don't live my life waiting for the Government to tell me if a bussiness is safe or not. Nor do I want the Government to tell me what I can and can't invest in. Life is too short. I'd rather make my own decisions and let the chips fall where they fall.
  • #28,064
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:17pm Jan 10, 2024 1:17pm
Quoting KarlKraus
How about if it isn’t a live account and they tell you it is? Does that matter to you? Do you want them to be liars or honest?
-If a casino lies to you about the odds of winning blackjack, but you already know what your odds are, it really doesn't matter; it's you against the house, after all. Just like it's you against most brokers and it's you against most prop firms. You understand the game and you play by the rules, even if/when you know that they're lying about A-booking traders or giving you comps in hopes that you will lose everything back to the house.

Companies shouldn't lie. But most people just do not care about the argument that you keep beating into the ground because they understand the opportunity and know that the payouts are real and that is what actually matters.

They are not lying in order to steal money from you. Honestly, what kind of trader would prefer live conditions over demo? How does a 'lie' like that even benefit a firm? Most of the firms were offering more favorable conditions than an actual live account anyways.
  • #28,065
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:21pm Jan 10, 2024 1:21pm
Quoting woody70
I don't live my life waiting for the Government to tell me if a bussiness is safe or not. Nor do I want the Government to tell me what I can and can't invest in. Life is too short. I'd rather make my own decisions and let the chips fall where they fall.
-Unfortunately, we are not given that choice. This is the problem. If governments would allow their citizens to opt-out of their over-reaching 'protections', then we could all still be trading with MFF right now. But allowing for that would cause them to lose control and their pay-to-play business would generate far less profit.
  • #28,066
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:26pm Jan 10, 2024 1:26pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-If a casino lies to you about the odds of winning blackjack, but you already know what your odds are, it really doesn't matter; it's you against the house, after all. Just like it's you against most brokers and it's you against most prop firms. You understand the game and you play by the rules, even if/when you know that they're lying about A-booking traders or giving you comps in hopes that you will lose everything back to the house. Companies shouldn't lie. But most people just do not care about the argument that you keep beating into...
Everything in this world you do not control is a lie!
  • #28,067
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:31pm Jan 10, 2024 1:31pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Unfortunately, we are not given that choice. This is the problem. If governments would allow their citizens to opt-out of their over-reaching 'protections', then we could all still be trading with MFF right now. But allowing for that would cause them to lose control and their pay-to-play business would generate far less profit.
Yes you are. Im an American living outside of rhe U.S and this has not stopped me. You have to be willing to use brokers that they said you cant and make it work. Its as simply as that. Do your own research.
  • #28,068
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:39pm Jan 10, 2024 1:39pm
Quoting woody70
Yes you are. Im an American living outside of rhe U.S and this has not stopped me. You have to be willing to use brokers that they said you cant and make it work. Its as simply as that. Do your own research.
-Obviously. I'm talking about having the choice to remain in the US, as an American citizen, while opting out of their so-called protections.
  • #28,069
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:46pm Jan 10, 2024 1:46pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}MMF told their customers they'd be trading live capital. Part of their issues. You raise a good point, you'll just end up with shady off-shore practitioners if there's no path for legitimate businesses to operate / be regulated.
so they are shady simply because they are not regulated? I've used unregulated offshore brokers since 2014. No issues whatsoever. It isn't that they are shady or untrustworthy, they are simply unregulated because the REGULATORS are shady and untrustworthy. I wouldn't trade with a CFTC regualted broker if you paid me to do so. Whatever, too each their own.
  • #28,070
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:48pm Jan 10, 2024 1:48pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Nevertheless this is what most forex brokers do when they B book pretty much every customer. "Come and trade the market" but in fact they are just betting that you will blow the account or, in the best scenario, internalizing orders with other customers. ---- Regarding regulation, I have accounts in 3 offshores brokers which are "regulated" by some agency in some lost island. I'll be lucky if the agency even exists and very lucky if the dude working there knows what a forex lot is. So, how did I chose the brokers ? Not for being "regulated"...
Brokers regulated by tier 1 regulators (FCA, ASIC etc) do not do what MFF did when it comes to false / fraudulent statements.

The licences are publicly available and the T&Cs will give full disclosures.

Some dodgy offshore broker may be different, of course.
  • #28,071
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:52pm Jan 10, 2024 1:52pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Obviously. I'm talking about having the choice to remain in the US, as an American citizen, while opting out of their so-called protections.
Still a lot of Prop Firms out there that will take Americans. You just have to be willing to take the risk. Im in a couple right now. A couple of them had bad reviews on here, but black friday deals were pretty good so we will see.
  • #28,072
  • Jan 10, 2024 1:58pm Jan 10, 2024 1:58pm
Quoting Nsak3y
most people just do not care about the argument that you keep beating into the ground

Silly of me to imagine there might actually be people who’d prefer the companies from whom they buy products/services to tell the truth on their sales pages, rather than lying - please excuse my naivety.
  • #28,073
  • Jan 10, 2024 2:00pm Jan 10, 2024 2:00pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} so they are shady simply because they are not regulated? I've used unregulated offshore brokers since 2014. No issues whatsoever. It isn't that they are shady or untrustworthy, they are simply unregulated because the REGULATORS are shady and untrustworthy. I wouldn't trade with a CFTC regualted broker if you paid me to do so. Whatever, too each their own.
Since 2012 here. Ive never had any problems either.
  • #28,074
  • Edited 2:15pm Jan 10, 2024 2:03pm | Edited 2:15pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} Silly of me to imagine there might actually be people who’d prefer the companies from whom they buy products/services to tell the truth on their sales pages, rather than lying - please excuse my naivety.
No company in the world tells the truth you can not be that naive.
  • #28,075
  • Edited 3:16pm Jan 10, 2024 2:48pm | Edited 3:16pm
MFF Lied about trading live markets... yet their best traders (VIP) received multiple payouts in their fictitious trading environment. Once those same traders were A booked and sent to the real market, they turned into net losers almost every month. If MFF put everyone in an A book environment from day 1 (eval + live) what do you think the overall outcome would have been for traders? Even less success!!! MFF's virtual/simulated trading environment was better for traders than the real live markets filling the inflated ticket volumes of prop accounts.
  • #28,076
  • Jan 10, 2024 3:01pm Jan 10, 2024 3:01pm
Quoting CableJ
MFF Lied about trading live markets... yet their best traders (VIP) received multiple payouts in their fictitious trading environment. Once those same traders were A booked and sent to the real market, they turned into net losers almost every month. If MFF put everyone in an A book enviourment from day 1 (eval + live) what do you think the overall outcome would have been for traders? Even less success!!! MFF's virtual/simulated trading enviourment was better for traders than the real live markets filling the inflated ticket volumes of prop accounts....
You are exactly correct. However, it's pointless.......some people just read the headline, do no research, do not think for themselves, use no common sense. You can show them all of the facts, does not matter....the news said this, that's the way it is. It's exhausting even having a conversation with them.
  • #28,077
  • Jan 10, 2024 3:05pm Jan 10, 2024 3:05pm
Quoting pipmaster77
It's exhausting even having a conversation with them.
-My sentiments, exactly.
  • #28,078
  • Jan 10, 2024 3:27pm Jan 10, 2024 3:27pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} woody70 and some others. {quote} Apart from Lux, The 5%ers, quite a few other CFD ones, and ALL the futures ones, you mean?
Actually APEX says very clearly that you will be on a SIM funded account until you can show consistency to protect the company's capital. If you show consistency then they send your trades into the live market.

Wether they say it or actually do it doesn't affect the outcome of my trading or my relationship with them.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #28,079
  • Jan 10, 2024 3:53pm Jan 10, 2024 3:53pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} oh boy......here we go. How abot this....is it OK for them to pick and choose who they "regulate" based on who pays them off? Only the naive do not see what is truly going on. The brokers they regulate are among the shadiest brokers in the world, but allowed to continue their shady practices......Yet, the good brokers of the world are off limits to me as a US citizen....why? The CFTC does exactly ZERO to benefit the trader. It is simply an over reaching arm of the over eaching government of the overreaching USA.
pipmaster,

The regulators are regulating the traders right out business. Thats the only thing they are regulating.
  • #28,080
  • Jan 10, 2024 3:57pm Jan 10, 2024 3:57pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Spot on. I don't need regulation. There are enough forums around now that you can find out who is reputable or not just by looking online. We don't need the government in everything. If you can't do your own research today don't expect the government to do it for you.
and therin lies the problem....too many rely on the government FOR EVERYTHING....including living, the bigger problem is..... this is EXACTLY how the government wants it....the more dependent we are, the easier it is to contol us, our money, our property........oops, there I go off topic again.. I just can't help it, there are so many naive, ignorant people in the world.[/quote]

Live and let live. People have differing views on things and your sneering, high handed "I know best" posts actually detract from some of your more salient points on prop firms.

Also, can you please stop with the alt-right stuff in this thread? Please and thanks
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