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  • #28,041
  • Jan 10, 2024 10:49am Jan 10, 2024 10:49am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Are you connected with 'KarlKraus'? Are you 'Quickly'? You joined ForexFactory yesterday, you only posted in this thread, you and KarlKraus are in the same time zone and share the same views.
I'm not connected with anyone on here.

I searched for 'FTMO no longer taking US clients' and at the time I searched this topic ranked highly so I clicked it.

I saw it was an interesting discussion and since I have some industry experience decided to contribute.

Nothing more than that.
  • #28,042
  • Jan 10, 2024 10:51am Jan 10, 2024 10:51am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} This is a great question. If it is CFTC, I would think NO US clients may exist. However, there are 2 offshore brokers which I still use that stopped onboarding US clinets like 3 years ago. I believe you use both as well.
Correct but neither one is located in the EU within the reach of the CFTC like FTMO.
  • #28,043
  • Edited 3:22pm Jan 10, 2024 11:07am | Edited 3:22pm
Quoting labu
Explains the discounts by FTMO lately. You can always tell something is up when the prop firms do something radical. Like when they changed into unlimited suddenly out of nowhere like a domino effects. Then acted surprised when MFF got taken down as if they had no idea. This world is globalized now obviously. But for some reason whoever pulls the breaks might just settle to keep the ban of Forex in US, no idea why. Maybe because like in Germany they can regulate the markets through the govts already easily across the whole trading spectrum itself....
10% discount and unlimited time to reach profit target. Wow, that's super radical.

Do us a favor and stop posting stupid shit. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #28,044
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:16am Jan 10, 2024 11:16am
oh boy......here we go. How abot this....is it OK for them to pick and choose who they "regulate" based on who pays them off? Only the naive do not see what is truly going on. The brokers they regulate are among the shadiest brokers in the world, but allowed to continue their shady practices......Yet, the good brokers of the world are off limits to me as a US citizen....why? The CFTC does exactly ZERO to benefit the trader. It is simply an over reaching arm of the over eaching government of the overreaching USA.[/quote]


Spot on. I don't need regulation. There are enough forums around now that you can find out who is reputable or not just by looking online. We don't need the government in everything. If you can't do your own research today don't expect the government to do it for you.
  • #28,045
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:20am Jan 10, 2024 11:20am
Quoting PropDude1234
However, that's separate and different from suggesting the regulator that regulates the financial markets shouldn't have the scope to take action against companies making false statement (perhaps even fraudulent, if proven) around said financial markets.
-As mentioned, not what I was saying, but even still, it seems like a bit of a jump to me. Saying 'we win when you win' (or whatever it was), hardly qualifies as a statement about the financial markets.

Even what they were doing is still questionable, in terms of whether or not they were conducting business in the financial markets, since there was no real trading going on. What if we were all paper trading? Still applicable? What's the difference? Having a server or using metatrader? It's more efficient, anyway.

If they positioned themselves as an educator, charging fees for their tests and issuing meaningless certificates for completion etc., would that still be applicable? What's the difference? Or maybe they position themselves as a data collector, charging onboarding and administrative fees to weed out unqualified contractors, and then paying for the services of contractors that were able to provide consistently-good data? Would that be different?

In that case, if they were using that data to invest in the markets themselves (of which they can freely do), then it would be true that they would win when we win. And as mentioned before, even if they did not use that data to invest, an argument could still be made that they win when we win, because if nobody ever won, then their business would eventually fail. People would catch on and just stop using them.

Looking at all of the prop firms that conducted interviews of winning traders and blasted them all over social media, I would bet money that they won big in the form of new signups and more profit etc..
  • #28,046
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:24am Jan 10, 2024 11:24am
Quoting woody70
oh boy......here we go. How abot this....is it OK for them to pick and choose who they "regulate" based on who pays them off? Only the naive do not see what is truly going on. The brokers they regulate are among the shadiest brokers in the world, but allowed to continue their shady practices......Yet, the good brokers of the world are off limits to me as a US citizen....why? The CFTC does exactly ZERO to benefit the trader. It is simply an over reaching arm of the over eaching government of the overreaching USA.
Spot on. I don't need regulation. There are enough forums around now that you can find out who is reputable or not just by looking online. We don't need the government in everything. If you can't do your own research today don't expect the government to do it for you.[/quote]


and therin lies the problem....too many rely on the government FOR EVERYTHING....including living, the bigger problem is..... this is EXACTLY how the government wants it....the more dependent we are, the easier it is to contol us, our money, our property........oops, there I go off topic again.. I just can't help it, there are so many naive, ignorant people in the world.
  • #28,047
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:28am Jan 10, 2024 11:28am
and therin lies the problem....too many rely on the government FOR EVERYTHING....including living, the bigger problem is..... this is EXACTLY how the government wants it....the more dependent we are, the easier it is to contol us, our money, our property........oops, there I go off topic again.. I just can't help it, there are so many naive, ignorant people in the world.

I know exactly how you feel.
  • #28,048
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:33am Jan 10, 2024 11:33am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-As mentioned, not what I was saying, but even still, it seems like a bit of a jump to me. Saying 'we win when you win' (or whatever it was), hardly qualifies as a statement about the financial markets. Even what they were doing is still questionable, in terms of whether or not they were conducting business in the financial markets, since there was no real trading going on. What if we were all paper trading? Still applicable? What's the difference? Having a server or using metatrader? If they positioned themselves as an educator, charging...
Telling people they'll be in the live markets when it was almost certain they wouldn't be was a total lie relating to the financial markets.

Imagine if the CME did that with their Futures offerings. Or a broker like Dorman.

The very minimum the consumer should be protected against are lies. I have no issue with MMF operating if they do so truthfully. Funnily enough they're now happy to tell the truth on their website (they've submitted disclosure amendments to the court to build the foundations of trying to come back).

You raise some interesting questions. Indeed, as I've posted previously MFF are saying, "Well lots of other people do it, some of whom are much older than us, so why target us?"

Perhaps it's them essentially doing their own brokering and the unauthorised RFED allegation which puts them over the line. Whereas most other props use third party regulated brokers. Perhaps that's what's caused FTMO to withdraw from the US. Although they (so they say) don't put people in the live market, they copy on their account at their discretion.

My view is that a route to regulation for props is the best approach. There's obviously a large global appetite for prop trading so let's get it regulated for everyone's benefit.
  • #28,049
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:42am Jan 10, 2024 11:42am
Quoting pipmaster77
I just can't help it, there are so many naive, ignorant people in the world.
Go into politics and do better, what's holding you back? :-)
  • #28,050
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:47am Jan 10, 2024 11:47am
Quoting lddd
{quote} Go into politics and do better, what's holding you back? :-)
Oh c'mon, seriously.......someone that wants to end the coruption that's been going on for years....The Clintons would have me killed immediately.
  • #28,051
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:49am Jan 10, 2024 11:49am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Oh c'mon, seriously.......someone that wants to end the coruption that's been going on for years....The Clintons would have me killed immediately.
  • #28,052
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:53am Jan 10, 2024 11:53am
Quoting PropDude1234
The very minimum the consumer should be protected against are lies.
Hard to imagine anyone could disagree with that, but here a few really do!

Quoting PropDude1234
I saw it was an interesting discussion and since I have some industry experience decided to contribute.
Anyone who actually has any industry experience (and might actually know what they’re talking about) is obviously pretty likely to disagree with "ladder."

The idea that several experienced people might all think he’s mistaken apparently shocks him so much that he accuses anyone and everyone in that growing group of people of being the same person!

Probably best just to put him on "ignore", as I see Karl did, and am just about to, myself: just click on his username, which takes you to his profile and you’ll see the "ignore" option in the top bar.

If he keeps posting this idiocy, the Admin will presumably take some action over it eventually. Meanwhile, welcome to the forum (if you can stand it!).
  • #28,053
  • Jan 10, 2024 11:58am Jan 10, 2024 11:58am
Quoting PropDude1234
Telling people they'll be in the live markets when it was almost certain they wouldn't be was a total lie relating to the financial markets.
-Who said that? Most of these props make it very clear that you will be trading on a demo account, even once funded.

Quoting PropDude1234
My view is that a route to regulation for props is the best approach. There's obviously a large global appetite for prop trading so let's get it regulated for everyone's benefit.
-Reasonable regulation is what is needed, but crippling regulation is the only thing, short of absolute death, that the CFTC will likely agree to.

If the remote prop business manages to survive this, then I suspect that it will look similar to what we see with current, offshore brokerages, that have to operate anonymously, outside of the jurisdictional reach of various regulatory groups, accepting only crypto deposits/withdrawals etc..
  • #28,054
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:03pm Jan 10, 2024 12:03pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Who said that? Most of these props make it very clear that you will be trading on a demo account, even once funded. {quote}-Reasonable regulation is what is needed, but crippling regulation is the only thing, short of absolute death, that the CFTC will likely agree to. If the remote prop business manages to survive this, then I suspect that it will look similar to what we see with current, offshore brokerages, that have to operate anonymously, outside of the jurisdictional reach of various regulatory groups, accepting only crypto deposits/withdrawals...
MMF told their customers they'd be trading live capital. Part of their issues.

You raise a good point, you'll just end up with shady off-shore practitioners if there's no path for legitimate businesses to operate / be regulated.
  • #28,055
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:06pm Jan 10, 2024 12:06pm
Quoting Quickly
Quoting PropDude1234
The very minimum the consumer should be protected against are lies.
Hard to imagine anyone could disagree with that, but here a few really do!
-Who has disagreed with that?
  • #28,056
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:09pm Jan 10, 2024 12:09pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}{quote}-Who has disagreed with that?

woody70 and some others.


Quoting Nsak3y
Most of these props make it very clear that you will be trading on a demo account, even once funded.

Apart from Lux, The 5%ers, quite a few other CFD ones, and ALL the futures ones, you mean?
  • #28,057
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:14pm Jan 10, 2024 12:14pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} woody70 and some others. {quote} Apart from Lux, The 5%ers, quite a few other CFD ones, and ALL the futures ones, you mean?
That's right I do disagree I guess you don't know how the government works. 99.9 % of what ever the government regulates always turns to crap. If you can't do your own research today than you should not trade it's as simply as that.
  • #28,058
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:28pm Jan 10, 2024 12:28pm
Quoting KarlKraus
woody70 and some others.
-I think, not wanting or needing government involvement in everything, especially in the where and how you choose to invest your own, hard-earned money, is not the same as saying that you believe that consumers should not be protected, but to each their own.

Quoting KarlKraus
Apart from Lux, The 5%ers, quite a few other CFD ones, and ALL the futures ones, you mean?
-My comment was in reference to FX firms. And I did say most. Right? And do you have proof that some of these examples, like Lux and 5ers, do not put traders on live accounts?
  • #28,059
  • Edited 1:26pm Jan 10, 2024 12:29pm | Edited 1:26pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}Telling people they'll be in the live markets when it was almost certain they wouldn't be was a total lie relating to the financial markets.
Nevertheless this is what most forex brokers do when they B book pretty much every customer. "Come and trade the market" but in fact they are just betting that you will blow the account or, in the best scenario, internalizing orders with other customers.
----
Regarding regulation, I have accounts in 3 offshores brokers which are "regulated" by some agency in some lost island. I'll be lucky if the agency even exists and very lucky if the dude working there knows what a forex lot is.
So, how did I chose the brokers ? Not for being "regulated" for sure.
  • #28,060
  • Jan 10, 2024 12:49pm Jan 10, 2024 12:49pm
It does not matter to me if its a live account or not. What matters is if they pay or not when I ask for payment. I can get a good idea now based on reviews if a firm is going to pay or not. So its up to me to decide, and I would like to keep it that way without government overreach.
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