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  • #28,001
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:34am Jan 10, 2024 5:34am
This is funny coming from the guys in the CFTC red list
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  • #28,002
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:39am Jan 10, 2024 5:39am
Quoting longcanlun12
If that was the case, instead of announcing an unclear reason, which is extremely fishy and affected their reputation, why don't they just claim it was not their fault, it's all due to the CFTC or regulators, just like they do with other countries that in the sanction lists, give customers a proper, objective reason? That's just my two cents tho, maybe you're right, maybe they just like CableJ said just pure panic behavior.
-One reason is because making a public statement like that positions you very unfavorably. It's basically an admission of guilt that they are doing something wrong and should be looked at by regulators. By saying that it has nothing to do with regulation, that layer of doubt shields them from anything definitive; same with allowing current US residents to stay on.
  • #28,003
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:40am Jan 10, 2024 5:40am
Quoting Capablanca
This is funny coming from the guys in the CFTC red list {image}
varied licenses. WTF? shame.
  • #28,004
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:45am Jan 10, 2024 5:45am
Quoting KarlKraus
Right again - though some less well-informed and more misguided members here really don’t like hearing this (especially from people with real industry experience).
-Wrong again. I do not believe that anyone here thinks that some regulatory oversight is a bad thing. We all want some oversight and accountability with firms. But it needs to be the right kind, not the overreaching, crippling kind.
  • #28,005
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:48am Jan 10, 2024 5:48am
Something interesting is that FTMO seems to allow non US passports to still operate from US. I don't get the logic of that because they ares still in US territory.
https://twitter.com/TraderBach/statu...43352263028873
  • #28,006
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:50am Jan 10, 2024 5:50am
I didn't know them but beware of The Euro Trader if you have big payouts. One of the founders seem to be connected with Blake from Smart Prop.
https://twitter.com/okfine1989/status/1744577142976094672
  • #28,007
  • Edited 6:20am Jan 10, 2024 5:52am | Edited 6:20am
Quoting Capablanca
Something interesting is that FTMO seems to allow non US passports to still operate from US. I don't get the logic of that because they ares still in US territory.
-Because as a US passport holder, you are owned by the US government. All tax laws, banking laws and regulation will apply to you, making you radioactive to most foreign, financial entities that would be subject to burdensome and costly compliance, should they choose to offer services to you. This is why renunciation is becoming a popular option, especially as many countries are offering citizenship-by-investment programs, and some of those countries even have zero tax.

When you hold a foreign passport (and not a US passport), then the US government does not have the same ownership or control over you, especially from a regulatory standpoint. Like being dropped off at the babysitter; you are at her house, but you are not one of her kids, so different rules may apply.
  • #28,008
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:00am Jan 10, 2024 6:00am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Because as a US passport holder, you are owned by the US government. All tax laws and regulation will apply to you, making you radioactive to most foreign, financial entities that would be subject to burdensome and costly compliance, should they choose to offer services to you. This is why renunciation is becoming a popular option, especially as many countries are offering citizenship-by-investment options, and some of those countries even have zero tax.
I get that but if serving US is a "crime" I don't see how serving a German living in US is not a crime.

Besides, following your logic of US people being owned, FTMO should not serve a US person living in Italy.

It's a decision that seems illogical. They (non passports) are still commiting the "crime" in US "soil".
  • #28,009
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:05am Jan 10, 2024 6:05am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I get that but if serving US is a "crime" I don't see how serving a German living in US is not a crime. Besides, following your logic of US people being owned, FTMO should not serve a US person living in Italy. It's a decision that seems illogical. They (non passports) are still commiting the "crime" in US "soil".
-It's not a matter of criminal activity, obviously. It is a matter of regulation (compliance), and what regulators can and cannot do. If you service one of their own, then they can try to force you to comply with their nonsense. In your example, yes, a US citizen living in Italy would be subject to the same nonsense, so any company onboarding that person will be taking a risk of 'regulatory exposure'.

This is why US citizens, even living abroad, are oftentimes rejected by brokers and even some banks because they still hold a US passport. It's hit-or-miss.
  • #28,010
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:13am Jan 10, 2024 6:13am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Besides, following your logic of US people being owned, FTMO should not serve a US person living in Italy. It's a decision that seems illogical.
FTMO will not be taking any US citizen wherever they live, its a matter of citizenship not residence.
  • #28,011
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:22am Jan 10, 2024 6:22am
Quoting lynnc
its a matter of citizenship not residence.
-Exactly. That being said, though, some companies are willing to risk it, and will onboard using foreign residency info.
  • #28,012
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:32am Jan 10, 2024 6:32am
FTMO doesnt trade CFDs, they simulate CFD trading, its a gray area. Its not real in the first place.

But i personally think they should be punished for their greed, offering Services where its not allowed, or for Kind of claiming to offer CFD trading when its just demo Quotes (They dont required them selfs to copy your demo trades to their "live" funds) like they claim in their terms of Service.

Its a Smart gray area and they go arround laws and hide the clear conflict of intrest against their clients.
Dont play their Game, You put your self in their structure which is build against you, thats my opinnion on most Prop Firms.
Real prop Firms want profitable traders, not challenge fees

There are smarter ways to maximize your own trading.
1k to 100k Copy Trading All Time Return: 367.9%
  • #28,013
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:42am Jan 10, 2024 6:42am
Quoting lynnc
{quote}FTMO will not be taking any US citizen wherever they live, its a matter of citizenship not residence.
That's not what the announcement says. They don't allow US clients (national) both in US and US overseas territories.
If they would forbid an US citizen in Italy from purchasing then they would say all american citizens worldwide.
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  • #28,014
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:59am Jan 10, 2024 6:59am
Quoting Nsak3y
I do not believe that anyone here thinks that some regulatory oversight is a bad thing.

Lol - you wouldn’t think that, if you’d received the same private messages (unsolicited, rude ones) as me, here, over the last couple of months!

It’s crystal clear that some people here do think that there’s absolutely no legitimate role for any regulatory oversight of prop firms at all (I didn’t, of course, suggest that you’re one of those idiots!).

Quoting lynnc
{quote}FTMO will not be taking any US citizen wherever they live, its a matter of citizenship not residence.

That may possibly turn out to be so in future, but clearly it isn't so now - and it isn't what they've said.
  • #28,015
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:05am Jan 10, 2024 7:05am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} That's not what the announcement says. They don't allow US clients (national) both in US and US overseas territories. If they would forbid an US citizen in Italy from purchasing then they would say all american citizens worldwide. {image}
That seems to a standard form reply they are using. I had a different question and received the exact same reply.

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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #28,016
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:08am Jan 10, 2024 7:08am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} That's not true. Demo traders were having better conditions than market. STP were simply getting market conditions. And some STP were high frequency and/or high volume so they were being hit with market conditions that they were not used in the demo environment. BTW, what about if they were lying and the CEO was living like a monk in a monastery or giving all profits away to charity ? Would that change the facts in dispute ?
Their setup was clearly incompetent.

Nearly all CFD flow (with actual CFD brokers) is warehoused / internal / B-booked. You don't see the likes of IG making various groups to deal with X, Y and Z. A better option which would have taken care of the cheaters / abusers would be to have paid clearing fees and run all flow as if it were going to the real market. So you'd have things like depth and natural limitations for people trying to scalp the top of the book. This costs and it's much cheaper to have some 3rd party 'risk management' service try to mimic those real conditions via plug-ins and suchlike.

STP were not simply 'getting market conditions'. Read attached 1. They added a spread to what sounds like the RAW feed to make it harder for people trading their own capital to succeed. What kind of morons would do that when it's their OWN capital being traded?

Attachment 2. is discussing moving anyone above 5% to 'the scalping group' i.e. the group that made it harder to profit.

In terms of the 'only cheating traders' getting worse conditions, where the headline quotes e.g. 'slip them to hell' came from - we're relying on MFF here to be telling the truth that they were indeed 'cheating traders'. Why would we do that from liars? EAs are shit. They don't arbitrage on their own. Arbitrage requires sophisticated third party connections and setups where the arbitrage service is able to, with the least delay possible, compare multiple feeds to see when a CFD feed is out of sync with the underlying / multiple other feeds. So when I read, "we requested his EA", that doesn't sound like cheating.

The lavish spending aggravates the lies and are facts themselves with relevance to aggravating factors, public interest etc. Varying that aspect wouldn't change fraud / regulatory aspects, no.
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  • #28,017
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:22am Jan 10, 2024 7:22am
Everyone on discord is being told by their moderators, if they are a US citizen whether or not they reside somewhere else in the world they will not be allowed to purchase a new challenge. Anyone with dual citizenship can do their kyc with the citizenship of another country.

This is what the moderators have been telling people:

It is not about the Proof of Address, it is about the identity. If you have a US ID card for the KYC Process then you cannot use our services
  • #28,018
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:25am Jan 10, 2024 7:25am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} That's not true. Demo traders were having better conditions than market. STP were simply getting market conditions. And some STP were high frequency and/or high volume so they were being hit with market conditions that they were not used in the demo environment. BTW, what about if they were lying and the CEO was living like a monk in a monastery or giving all profits away to charity ? Would that change the facts in dispute ?
Great point. Why is a suuccessful business owner buying or having assets frowned upon?
  • #28,019
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:27am Jan 10, 2024 7:27am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} what's your opinion on what FTMO's legal team & management are thinking by banning new US customers but still allowing their existing US traders to operate. If they are responding to the CFTC, I can't see how they believe that will fly in the eyes of the CFTC. it doesn't seem to make any logical sense.
This is a great question. If it is CFTC, I would think NO US clients may exist. However, there are 2 offshore brokers which I still use that stopped onboarding US clinets like 3 years ago. I believe you use both as well.
  • #28,020
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:30am Jan 10, 2024 7:30am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} They would never do that because that would be assuming that they are not sure or confident that they are law abiding. It would even even prejudicial in a future legal case if they said that. Therefore a general vague statement is clearly a better reason (and it's obvious that the reason is the MFF case).
and it makes it appear as it is THEIR (FTMO) decision to pull out. It would appear much worse if they were to state they were forced out.
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