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  • #26,641
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:26am Nov 27, 2023 8:26am
Quoting lddd
{quote} Given the amount of traders who lose anyway, a few profitable traders are certainly not "risky". Risk is when you have a business built on screwing people over. There's a lot of shit going on here, honestly. In addition, the successful traders are copied. I mean that's what they all advertise... So where is there any risk? Way too much conspiracy theories here without any real facts behind the statements.
That is no longer being advertised.. it was false advertising, it's officially demo/virtual/simulated everything now. MFF was very likely the only prop STPing anything & maybe FTMO now after the traditional prop purchase... so the payouts are coming from the total pot of fees paid.
  • #26,642
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:29am Nov 27, 2023 8:29am
Quoting lddd
Does anyone here have experience with using EAs at FTMO? I have a free EA that I'm currently testing and seems to be reasonably profitable, but I have no idea whether FTMO would allow something like that since it includes Grid and Martingale in particular.
FTMO has a maximum capital allocation limit of $400K per trader or strategy at any given time. If you use a public EA that others use, that EA will have that same $400K maximum allocation. Once the EA is popular enough to hit that threshold, all traders using it will be considered a violation or breached.
  • #26,643
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:33am Nov 27, 2023 8:33am
Quoting lddd
{quote} Given the amount of traders who lose anyway, a few profitable traders are certainly not "risky". Risk is when you have a business built on screwing people over. There's a lot of shit going on here, honestly. In addition, the successful traders are copied. I mean that's what they all advertise... So where is there any risk? Way too much conspiracy theories here without any real facts behind the statements.
99% of them aren't copying a damn thing......therein lies the problem. From marketing/advertising to ability to pay. It is a casino....challenge fees go in, payouts go out. When not enough challenge fees come in, ability for payouts to go out becomes an issue.
  • #26,644
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:41am Nov 27, 2023 8:41am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} What ? Where is it on website ? That must be a joke from FTMO or ? Customized conditions per individual trader only to that one ? SL required now with FTMO, really ? It must be an individual customized condition to only one trader or ? Never seen like that on FTMO, it cannot be. Customized ??? Due to you recent track history ? Is that on funded account ?
Customized things are not unusual in FTMO. Sometime ago we saw a guy who had the leverage reduced to 1:5.
  • #26,645
  • Edited 8:56am Nov 27, 2023 8:41am | Edited 8:56am
[quote=TraderTero;14668370]{quote} From one of the channels: {image}[/quo

I hope indeed they meant a funded account... But even then quite a shame. SL with 1% using indices that would force one to get a higher level account without a doubt to bother with them. Them aquiring a trad prop firm, will prolly change a few things.
Since if that is true. I just dont understand why anyone would pick a forex prop firm now if they trade indices.You would need a 50k account now with FTMO compared to 10k before to even get close to same DD level allowances "real trading account amount if funded" as before and with indices needing that breathing yea good luck.

Maybe a marketing trick. Forcing people to buy 50k accounts now instead of 10k. Seeing the rumors in general as others stated. FTMO seems to have it tough atm. All going downhill now for forex prop firms it seems.

On a side note. Just completed the 2021 365 days manual test. It shows if prop firms would allow 10%-15% DD the win margins for indices at least would skyrocket for users, it surprised me how at often in extreme ranging periods which even lasts a month that 5% is just enough to hit the DD with normal prop firm rules if one would have traded it as 30day time limit, and then it bounces.
That normal 5% is there for a reason and carved in stone. They did a good job to make sure its a sweet spot for people to fail challenges at least in the past using 30 day time limit. Stats showed most trade NQ US100 etc anyhow even with forex prop firms so Im guessing they built the 5% DD rule around that. But even with unlimited time and 5% DD will take long time from what I can see and quite some finess to get that breathing room the NQ etc needs.
  • #26,646
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:44am Nov 27, 2023 8:44am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The props do not want to or possibly can not payout the big payouts any longer. So now they will all throw the "above x % is gambling" bullshit. Once again, gamble all you wish while you keep paying for challenges but HOW DARE you employ that same strategy when funded? I mean look what TFT just did.....they have the dungeon now to punish those traders that are too risky for them. Always remember, risky to the prop firm is simply a profitable trader. We all know how these firms operate, we accept it for what it is. It will still amplify your...
It's ridiculous to be in the gambling business and not allowing gamblers
  • #26,647
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:45am Nov 27, 2023 8:45am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} You should try Quanttower with rithmic accounts..... It's a more modern platform and has it's own built in copier. It does take some setup time to get it to your liking. I have it set up with Apex accounts + AMP (Rithmic or CQG). Below is an example of my setup using binds... {image} {image} {image} {image}
Seems nice. How much does it cost ?
I may give a try when I feel energy to spend time learning a new platform.
  • #26,648
  • Nov 27, 2023 8:47am Nov 27, 2023 8:47am
Quoting lddd
{quote} Given the amount of traders who lose anyway, a few profitable traders are certainly not "risky". Risk is when you have a business built on screwing people over. There's a lot of shit going on here, honestly. In addition, the successful traders are copied. I mean that's what they all advertise... So where is there any risk? Way too much conspiracy theories here without any real facts behind the statements.
MFF internal documents in the legal case contradict everything you said. Those were real facts and not our opinions here.
  • #26,649
  • Nov 27, 2023 9:28am Nov 27, 2023 9:28am
Hi guys! I am looking for a reliable company with zero spread and extra commission. (futures) can be traded on the metatrader platform. or very low spreads on the index and funding company.
  • #26,650
  • Edited 9:52am Nov 27, 2023 9:34am | Edited 9:52am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Seems nice. How much does it cost ? I may give a try when I feel energy to spend time learning a new platform.
It's free for 1 prop/broker login @ time, $25 a month for multiple simultaneous prop/broker logins
  • #26,651
  • Nov 27, 2023 9:38am Nov 27, 2023 9:38am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #26,652
  • Nov 27, 2023 9:52am Nov 27, 2023 9:52am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} It's free for 1 prop/broker login @ time, $25 a month for multi simultaneous logins
So, having Rithmic with one login (and 5 apex accounts inside) will that qualify as one login ?
Is that easy to change between accounts ?
  • #26,653
  • Nov 27, 2023 9:53am Nov 27, 2023 9:53am
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  • #26,654
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:38am Nov 27, 2023 10:38am
Quoting Capablanca
{image}
So dead on......traders are responsible for their OWN risk, if you provide me 5% daily loss, why can I not use it? If you wish it to be 1%, than make it 1%.......oh wait, you cannot, nobody would purchase the product.
To the second point, yes, the imaginary risk team is just that, imaginary, and it's SOLE purpose is to limit payouts.
So, basically, what is advertised as, take our evaluation, pass, and then we are lifetime partners making money together, you win...both you and the firm benefit........IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
I've known this for 2 years and I still benefit from it, but the deceit is so wrong on so many levels. Then you have the slimiest MFer out there, Angelo, setting up other props, selling services to pass and then violating for using such services. I would lay him out if I ever met him in person.
  • #26,655
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:42am Nov 27, 2023 10:42am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} That is no longer being advertised.. it was false advertising, it's officially demo/virtual/simulated everything now. MFF was very likely the only prop STPing anything & maybe FTMO now after the traditional prop purchase... so the payouts are coming from the total pot of fees paid.
i always doubted any prop firms were ever copy trading highly profitable clients (traders)
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #26,656
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:47am Nov 27, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} So, having Rithmic with one login (and 5 apex accounts inside) will that qualify as one login ? Is that easy to change between accounts ?
Yes, I have 10 on 1 Apex login. To add Topstep to the mix would be $25 if you want to login to both at same time. One at a time is free.
  • #26,657
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:47am Nov 27, 2023 10:47am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So dead on......traders are responsible for their OWN risk, if you provide me 5% daily loss, why can I not use it? If you wish it to be 1%, than make it 1%.......oh wait, you cannot, nobody would purchase the product. To the second point, yes, the imaginary risk team is just that, imaginary, and it's SOLE purpose is to limit payouts. So, basically, what is advertised as, take our evaluation, pass, and then we are lifetime partners making money together, you win...both you and the firm benefit........IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. I've known this...
Even more strange when some companies adopted the designation of simulated trading.
  • #26,658
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:59am Nov 27, 2023 10:59am
Quoting JustPipMe
{quote} i always doubted any prop firms were ever copy trading highly profitable clients (traders)
My first year, I had cautious optimism that trades were being copied. Greatest thing ever, 20 x my investment as max loss, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US.
Then the optimism faded, however, everything else still rings true.....20 x my investment, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US.
It simply needs to be advertsied as to what it really is.......question is will there be enough demand to survive?
  • #26,659
  • Nov 27, 2023 11:17am Nov 27, 2023 11:17am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} My first year, I had cautious optimism that trades were being copied. Greatest thing ever, 20 x my investment as max loss, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US. Then the optimism faded, however, everything else still rings true.....20 x my investment, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US. It simply needs to be advertsied as to what it really is.......question is will there be enough demand to survive?
more and more people come on earth, so enough material for them. and marketing gets faked enough to show big payouts and big wins and low risk... they dont show the bad site for the traders. if they dont know like you know, prop user even can lose longterm by win small in this company, but lose same time their trading habits for good longterm consistent trading in private account (if they existed).
  • #26,660
  • Nov 27, 2023 11:25am Nov 27, 2023 11:25am
Quoting Artcool
In this case, I think it's fair enough to discuss with him their new conditions to pursue the partnership with him, instead of playing dirty tricks refuse to pay him and/or boot him out like other prop firms might do.
-Yes, but this all leads back to this idea that props are wanting their cake and eating it too. Many props are being selective with their rules/enforcement, and only applying them when it benefits them to do so, in lieu of applying the same rules to everyone, all of the time.

We understand how the model works, so we understand why they do this, but it's really not the right approach, in my opinion, since it encourages shady and dishonest practices and does not foster a positive, transparent and honest working relationship.

As mentioned, if props would simply employ a max-profit, per-person/account, per-month rule, and change the model to be subscription-based (like these futures firms), then they could likely sustain the model without having to use shady practices to ban people and/or deny payouts etc..

And maybe a max-profit rule is not the answer... maybe having trailing draw-down is; I don't know. It obviously works, though. If given the choice, I would want max profit instead of trailing DD, personally.

Either way, such a change could mitigate risk for the firm by reigning in the gamblers and supplying a constant in-flow of cash while still providing a great opportunity for traders. A firm would simply need to run the numbers for a while to see what works. Many traders may not like it, but it beats payout denials, bans and shuttering of firms altogether. It's no fun having to guess what the profit threshold is for a particular firm at any given moment.

Something needs to change; I simply do not see most of these remote prop firms surviving for very much longer, otherwise, especially if MFF fails to make a full comeback.
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