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  • #26,561
  • Nov 25, 2023 6:15am Nov 25, 2023 6:15am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} I think I like the penalty box idea. It would eliminate all the gambling yolo traders that could potentially run into a massive payout due to luck. We all know where 100% of the money is coming from, so the daily loss = sl traders are a real threat to the long term viability of the business. That being said, they need to provide specific numbers... above what risk % & above what margin % of total equity = banishment to the dungeon?
I agree but the rules seems to vague to me.
If one is profitable (something not desired by props) they can kick us some subjective argument that we are risky, gamblers or whatever.
  • #26,562
  • Nov 25, 2023 8:50am Nov 25, 2023 8:50am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} man you seeking payouts for next 5-10 years then its always uncertain but in the meantime all of them pays with a small hiccup here n there…. If you a seasoned trader you can easily pull out profits from them. i have bought 5x100k and 4x200k challenge accounts out of which i am nearly there for my first ever payout from skilled trader 200k(only funded) and one bespoke 100k always in drawdowm worth 4k + refund next week. That will recover all of the lost challenges amount and more as i always pick the challenges with nice dIscounts… also...
be more realistic!
If you are a seasoned trader you would trade own real accounts with some millions, because you would have good success over many years.
we speak in prop not about this type of traders, seasoned trader are not idiots and know their opportunity costs.

prop are not for seasoned trader, they are for the people between beginner and medium level or maximum around medium level, who know something about trading but did not have any big consistency or any big profit in money from this.

when you hold prop realistic then you can have maybe an advantage with them (not very big in money, but for some helps not risk own money for seeing higher sum ), but dreaming there are seasoned trader inside is a fallacy. maybe some of this traders some day get seasoned traders, but this is an other story.
  • #26,563
  • Nov 25, 2023 9:19am Nov 25, 2023 9:19am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} be more realistic! If you are a seasoned trader you would trade own real accounts with some millions, because you would have good success over many years. we speak in prop not about this type of traders, seasoned trader are not idiots and know their opportunity costs. prop are not for seasoned trader, they are for the people between beginner and medium level or maximum around medium level, who know something about trading but did not have any big consistency or any big profit in money from this. when you hold prop realistic then you can...
You are right in my opinion, but there is always a transition period. Where one has developed a good strategy but still needs some tweaking and until the millions are made there can be some years of this transition period where such prop firms are the best choice. Of course longterm no one needs them when trading with own millions. Those props get then too small. But only after some years best, not before. That is why such prop firms are a helper to speed up process to get larger capital.
  • #26,564
  • Nov 25, 2023 9:20am Nov 25, 2023 9:20am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} I think I like the penalty box idea. It would eliminate all the gambling yolo traders that could potentially run into a massive payout due to luck. We all know where 100% of the money is coming from, so the daily loss = sl traders are a real threat to the long term viability of the business. That being said, they need to provide specific numbers... above what risk % & above what margin % of total equity = banishment to the dungeon?
I have not traded my TFT account (only 100K) since the MFF situation and I never did join E8. There are some real garbadge, scammy firms around now and TFT is definitely one of them.
Hoping MFF comes back, if not, I am still funded at FTMO, TFF and just about there with the 5%ers. Been doing a lot of research as of late, and the only 2 I would consider beyond those 3 is Funding Pips and Funded Engineer. APEX for futures, although I need to readjust some risk settings to work with the trailing DD.
  • #26,565
  • Edited 12:14pm Nov 25, 2023 9:31am | Edited 12:14pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You are right in my opinion, but there is always a transition period. Where one has developed a good strategy but still needs some tweaking and until the millions are made there can be some years of this transition period where such prop firms are the best choice. Of course longterm no one needs them when trading with own millions. Those props get then too small. But only after some years best, not before. That is why such prop firms are a helper to speed up process to get larger capital.
there is a very big problem with prop.
why do you think ftmo or other prop has exactly the price of 1080 USD for 200.000 and so on.....
this price you can very easy calculate as border prices to get not cheated very easy with mathematical models to always win in prop. when there are discounts in companies and they go lower then the mathematical calculated price of always win whatever happens possibility, then you would win in any case with this prop (until they dont pay you or you dont know math models i trading). this companies would be out of market with this discounts if people would be smart and know math at a good level. and the seasoned trader are not smallest interested in this some thousand dollars win by this models, when make 100k same time invest in normal trading.

good people dont trade in prop because of big opportunity cost. but second big reasons is because they know the brain, they know that anything you do change a brain and how you trade in future. and destroying good skills developed by trade the wrong way (what you have to do in props ) is blocking the way to get very big in real accounts and so has much less wins in future. so short term wins against very big long term wins is here the calculation (but time changed, now many want wins fast , even when they are much much smaller then by do it slow and win 1 million percent over 20 years: Instagram and many other platforms show a life of instantly get rich scams (or wrong told stories) all over the place so anyone thinks he deserve it now and will be best ).
  • #26,566
  • Nov 25, 2023 9:40am Nov 25, 2023 9:40am
Quoting Takisd
Since this thread is very futures centric, I will give a list of firms to avoid for financial reasons: Maven Thefundedtrader Skilledfundedtrader Smartproptrading Fundingpips e8funding fxify Cant show my sources on this but I have them from a few groups, but if you are playing with retail props, avoid these for a while until they sort their nonsense out. Sorry I haven't had a chance to play with futures with you guys, I have been working on something semi-prop related thats not really prop related and its occupied my time a long with various other...
Hi Takisd - would you change anything on that list now 2 weeks later? I'm mainly interested about the E8 and FXIFY future
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #26,567
  • Nov 25, 2023 11:19am Nov 25, 2023 11:19am
Quoting Capablanca
In the meantime TFT released a long statement changing their rules. https://help.thefundedtraderprogram....ungeon-program This is a nice resume of what it's all about: https://twitter.com/TraderBach/statu...06539226652957
-TFT are shooting themselves in the foot with this.
  • #26,568
  • Edited 1:50pm Nov 25, 2023 1:39pm | Edited 1:50pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I have not traded my TFT account (only 100K) since the MFF situation and I never did join E8. There are some real garbadge, scammy firms around now and TFT is definitely one of them. Hoping MFF comes back, if not, I am still funded at FTMO, TFF and just about there with the 5%ers. Been doing a lot of research as of late, and the only 2 I would consider beyond those 3 is Funding Pips and Funded Engineer. APEX for futures, although I need to readjust some risk settings to work with the trailing DD.
The trailing makes it harder unless you are scalping. With Futures you have stable and good trading conditions, especially on ES and NQ. That is why I was asking about Orderflow and Footprint Indicators. I am not a scalper so far, so I would like to extend my arsenal so I can trade through Apex too because they always do big payouts.
  • #26,569
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:15pm Nov 25, 2023 3:15pm
Quoting Capablanca
In the meantime TFT released a long statement changing their rules. https://help.thefundedtraderprogram....ungeon-program This is a nice resume of what it's all about: https://twitter.com/TraderBach/statu...06539226652957 {quote} This should be much more explicit
Thanks for the link.

" “ A sanction system” that punishes “nefarious” trading behavior. "

What kind of trading will be sanctionned ?
  • #26,570
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:23pm Nov 25, 2023 3:23pm
Quoting Nehemah
What kind of trading will be sanctionned ?
The kind of winning one

Because, jokes apart, we know that if you lose 20 challenges in a row, without making a single payout, TFT will always welcome you for another one.
  • #26,571
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:37pm Nov 25, 2023 3:37pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Thanks for the link. " “ A sanction system” that punishes “nefarious” trading behavior. " What kind of trading will be sanctionned ?
Scalpers will have a problem. Only FTMO is left from what I am seeing. Otherwise you need to go to Apex and then trade futures. There you can scalp as hell and you can still get big payouts with no questions asked. Those more and more rules from TFT and others are only designed to reduce overall payouts percentage. That is all.
  • #26,572
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:51pm Nov 25, 2023 3:51pm
Quoting labu
Seeing all these forex prop firms promotions lately and knowing the status of its uncertain payouts. {image} After a long hard walk almost collapsing. {image} Futures prop firms and FTMO
it's like that episode where Zahi Hawass luckily finds and calls out for some bedouin to save him and his archaeological assistant, in the middle of the desert.
  • #26,573
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:56pm Nov 25, 2023 3:56pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The kind of winning one Because, jokes apart, we know that if you lose 20 challenges in a row, without making a single payout, TFT will always welcome you for another one.
I have never had the slightest problem with them in 15 months. The question is whether they want to eradicate the winners or rather limit the big winners
  • #26,574
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:58pm Nov 25, 2023 3:58pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Scalpers will have a problem. Only FTMO is left from what I am seeing. Otherwise you need to go to Apex and then trade futures. There you can scalp as hell and you can still get big payouts with no questions asked. Those more and more rules from TFT and others are only designed to reduce overall payouts percentage. That is all.
A real scalper, by definition, does not trade CFDs so at this level it will not change much
  • #26,575
  • Nov 25, 2023 3:59pm Nov 25, 2023 3:59pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} I have never had the slightest problem with them in 15 months. The question is whether they want to eradicate the winners or rather limit the big winners
Big winners they need from time to time for marketing purposes (only). But this is more for overall payout sum reduction I am guessing.
  • #26,576
  • Nov 25, 2023 4:01pm Nov 25, 2023 4:01pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} A real scalper, by definition, does not trade CFDs so at this level it will not change much
If you trade indices then yes maybe, but not for Forex scalpers. On currency futures you pay more with spreads and comms than on FTMO. But recently the spreads widened for most props, so in the end maybe not cheaper then currency futures especially on 6E and 6J for EURUSD and USDJPY. Also if you trade Gold, CFD is better.
  • #26,577
  • Nov 25, 2023 4:05pm Nov 25, 2023 4:05pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} A real scalper, by definition, does not trade CFDs so at this level it will not change much
You know Tom Hougaard a real scalper but only trading CFDs with millions for a living for many years right now ? And he is trading Indices mainly. So it really depends..
  • #26,578
  • Nov 25, 2023 4:12pm Nov 25, 2023 4:12pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You know Tom Hougaard a real scalper but only trading CFDs with millions for a living for many years right now ? And he is trading Indices mainly. So it really depends..
The problem, always by definition, is the fact that you can not win the spread with CFD and above all that, unlike futures, you never really know at what price you will be executed.
  • #26,579
  • Nov 25, 2023 4:13pm Nov 25, 2023 4:13pm
I have done some visual testing across different markets using Orderflow Scalping and it should be profitable but with Range bars not the 1 minute bars. Will find out soon for me, because if it does not work for 1 month, there is sure not that much edge to be made. Otherwise it would be a good fit for Apex. Let's see. I am saying this to find out who is profitable with Orderflow and Footprint Scalping (here) ? Because on those most youtubers I am missing real traders, there are only marketeers with no trading track record. So difficult to judge here whether it has some value. And all those systematic guys on Orderflow failed too from what I have seen. But not sure of course. Anyone successful would not publish this. Who is successful with that ? Anyone you know personally or from Internet (where you have some proofs) ? Thx.
  • #26,580
  • Nov 25, 2023 5:05pm Nov 25, 2023 5:05pm
Quoting Capablanca
Because, jokes apart, we know that if you lose 20 challenges in a row, without making a single payout, TFT will always welcome you for another one.
-I'm not sure. This new policy will allow them to banish 'high-risk traders/gamblers' and account churning. This would seem very counterproductive, hence the shooting of the foot comment.

I expect that TFTP will be very selective about this, though, and will enforce this policy only if/when it is beneficial for them to do so.

Convenient for them...
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