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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #26,281
  • Edited 12:56pm Nov 15, 2023 11:39am | Edited 12:56pm
Quoting labu
{quote} Throughout the years Ive heard many complaints about TopStep. I thought there was enough rumors on social media already for people to stay far away. Literally the one futures prop firm which got the worst reputation as far as I know among the popular ones. Earn2Trade got the best. Apex yea they payout and so far not that many shady rumors.
I lost focus on trading, lost all my profits after TopStep sent orders on 2 accounts when i had no orders on market and NO HANDS ON PC.

I finished my test with TopStep. Never got an issue with Apex.

I sent the logs to them... but they can't fix it. Is like my pc sent orders at market! I can't believe.

No idea of what happened.

Liquidated 45 seconds after news.... like I'm stupid to click on news a "buy" order at market at highs... me a scalper contrarian.
Perhaps I don't see even where is the entry with "market order". I see some order stop after 2 seconds from the news, but I deleted all the working orders,
this is an issue of tradovate-topstep. I deleted all my orderd and they executed it, these were deleted many minute before the news.

Can't believe how this wasted my day.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #26,282
  • Nov 15, 2023 11:45am Nov 15, 2023 11:45am
Quoting Filipo1
{quote} I just verified this with the rejection of my 500K funded account for « taking too much risk » on ONE trade, translate earning too much… Made like $102K in one day thanks to the traction of CPI release yesterday and they make in their pants… {image} {image}
Filipo , you earned on a news (CPI) , right?
So , in my opinion, you are perfectly in line with FundingTraders rules. In fact, they say that it is allowed to trade news and you can even do it overnight.
You only have one wrong, you earned too much , LOL
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  • #26,283
  • Nov 15, 2023 11:48am Nov 15, 2023 11:48am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Because, eventually, word will keep getting out about so-and-so firms denying payment and/or banning profitable traders etc. until there are no reputable firms left and the entire space becomes a ghost town. If changing the model ensures long-term sustainability without having to play the whack-a-mole game, then that is a win-win situation; props can feel secure about their business while traders can feel secure about their trading. As things currently are, most firms seem to have an unwritten watermark or profit threshold that they do not...
problem is: their is no long-term sustainability with their business model. in this model you need to cheat to get more money for yourself then you have to pay. thats by structure, its designed like this. you need fake marketing to bring in the idiots, and you need some cheats to bring out the winning traders. and you need to block as much as possible the bad reviews. this are the 3 colums such a Business is build on.
  • #26,284
  • Nov 15, 2023 12:11pm Nov 15, 2023 12:11pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} They will attempt to auto close, but they say it's on you to ultimately do so. Either way, cannot hold.
Thx Pip.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #26,285
  • Nov 15, 2023 12:12pm Nov 15, 2023 12:12pm
Quoting Trader191
problem is: their is no long-term sustainability with their business model.
-We can only speculate, really. Until someone tries something new, we may never know. But math does not lie and the statistics are clear. So long as a firm can generate more inflow than outflow, then the model should be sustainable; 3rd-party interference aside.
  • #26,286
  • Nov 15, 2023 12:20pm Nov 15, 2023 12:20pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-We can only speculate, really. Until someone tries something new, we may never know. But math does not lie and the statistics are clear. So long as a firm can generate more inflow than outflow, then the model should be sustainable; 3rd-party interference aside.
MFF was doing it. Paying large payouts and plenty left over. Monetizing the data is the key. I recall them even claiming they wanted to get to the point where they didn't NEED to bring on new traders. Clearly, not living ONLY off of the fees. I think FTMO has it figured out as well. The scams that have popped up in th e past 12-18 months, completely different animal. White-label made it easy to jump in, under-capitalized, hoping they wouldn't have any large payouts. These firms have never gotten to the size or the amount of data MFF and FTMO have.
There is a huge difference between MFF and FTMO vs. all of the rest. Same basic model, maybe, but there is more to MFF and FTMO.
  • #26,287
  • Nov 15, 2023 12:21pm Nov 15, 2023 12:21pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-We can only speculate, really. Until someone tries something new, we may never know. But math does not lie and the statistics are clear. So long as a firm can generate more inflow than outflow, then the model should be sustainable; 3rd-party interference aside.
yes, but prop they all do (what you call generate more inflow than outflow) with big cheating and fake marketing and blocking bad reviews as much es possible. other way they could not do generate any profits with this company structure.

so when you call companies what are cheat, fake and do all this as a sustainable company then you are right. but not all like cheater companies.

what math you speak about? the wins of fees after reduced payout because of cheating? or anything special?
  • #26,288
  • Nov 15, 2023 12:25pm Nov 15, 2023 12:25pm
Quoting pipmaster77
There is a huge difference between MFF and FTMO vs. all of the rest. Same basic model, maybe, but there is more to MFF and FTMO.
-Yes. I do believe that even with a fee-based model, sustainability should be possible. The statistics are clear. So long as the fee structure is recurring and the firm can cap monthly payouts, then it should work, in theory. This assumes that the trader pool is large enough to ensure that most of your traders fall within that 90%.
  • #26,289
  • Nov 15, 2023 1:06pm Nov 15, 2023 1:06pm
Quoting Trader191
so when you call companies what are cheat, fake and do all this as a sustainable company then you are right. but not all like cheater companies. what math you speak about? the wins of fees after reduced payout because of cheating? or anything special?
-As mentioned, I am proposing that the model be changed so that firms do not have to cheat.

For the math, I am referring to the simple math that would be required to determine the long-term sustainability of a prop, based on the fee structure and schedule, as well as the monthly profit cap. Testing would need to be done to determine viability and sustainability.
  • #26,290
  • Nov 15, 2023 1:58pm Nov 15, 2023 1:58pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-As mentioned, I am proposing that the model be changed so that firms do not have to cheat. For the math, I am referring to the simple math that would be required to determine the long-term sustainability of a prop, based on the fee structure and schedule, as well as the monthly profit cap. Testing would need to be done to determine viability and sustainability.
there is one math behind . but all companies tested use winning traders from props or trading games failed, because this traders did trade bad. so chance any longterm success story exist is very small, because anytime it was tested it failed. so math speak against that this companies survive without cheating.
  • #26,291
  • Nov 15, 2023 2:34pm Nov 15, 2023 2:34pm
FTMO has added a new platform ; DXTrade

a good platform ?

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  • #26,292
  • Nov 15, 2023 3:14pm Nov 15, 2023 3:14pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Why not just use FTMO’s trial account? It’s unlimited access. You can cancel and create new one on demand.
Hi Cryptosurf,

I did just that & found that is a great way to to test their Dashboard. Even on this trial version I found their customer service to be on the spot in every way. Very impressive. If they continue with that level of service, I experience they will be one to survive going into the future. In this world we are living in, I'm not easily impressed, but FTMO is impressive. Just wanted to share my experience.
  • #26,293
  • Nov 15, 2023 3:20pm Nov 15, 2023 3:20pm
Quoting lddd
Any brokers offering no expiration MT4 demo accounts with exact/almost same data feed as FTMO?
Try IC Markets.
  • #26,294
  • Nov 15, 2023 3:31pm Nov 15, 2023 3:31pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I lost focus on trading, lost all my profits after TopStep sent orders on 2 accounts when i had no orders on market and NO HANDS ON PC. I finished my test with TopStep. Never got an issue with Apex. I sent the logs to them... but they can't fix it. Is like my pc sent orders at market! I can't believe. No idea of what happened. Liquidated 45 seconds after news.... like I'm stupid to click on news a "buy" order at market at highs... me a scalper contrarian. Perhaps I don't see even where is the entry with "market order". I see some order stop...
It looks like market order opened at the bottom caused the liquidation. Maybe you forgot about it. It happened to me with earn2trade week ago. I reached daily loss, closed rhitmic and received email 2 hrs later about failing challenge,it was left buy limit order as stop loss far away from current priceI was half way thru reaching profit. No big deal just stupid mistake, and also rhitmic is not friendly, charts scale is not the best to manage so my order was not visible on chart.
  • #26,295
  • Nov 15, 2023 4:11pm Nov 15, 2023 4:11pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I lost focus on trading, lost all my profits after TopStep sent orders on 2 accounts when i had no orders on market and NO HANDS ON PC. I finished my test with TopStep. Never got an issue with Apex. I sent the logs to them... but they can't fix it. Is like my pc sent orders at market! I can't believe. No idea of what happened. Liquidated 45 seconds after news.... like I'm stupid to click on news a "buy" order at market at highs... me a scalper contrarian. Perhaps I don't see even where is the entry with "market order". I see some order stop...
When I tested Tradovate many years ago, granted it was on demo accounts only to see which platforms were good before Ninjatrader bought it. I noticed it executed orders without me knowing it. It drove me absolutely insane. Since I thought I had done something wrong too. I had totally forgot about it since so long ago.I just recalled a bad experience with them. But this was apparently due to the queing issue or something they had technical problems with filling orders back then. I thought of course they had fixed it throughout the years but maybe not? Maybe tradovate treats topstep as demo accounts too, which is prolly the case since its simulated environment with propfirms.

Then as I noticed other users on forums had similar issues I never touched tradovate since then. Only Ninjatrader, Sierracharts, Metatrader for reliability and somewhat user friendly experience and of course CTrader. Anything web based is high risk I noticed even with tradingview as sometimes they have login issues i noticed some year back for ALL users. Of course such things cannot be allowed to happen any time if one takes trading serious.

But as YoungD said it could been some mistake too. But strange coincidence its with Tradovate same issues I had.Which happened several times and not some accident by me as I tested it alot to make sure.
So even if TopStep got strange rumors this one reminds me too closely to my own experiences back then a platform causing it.

Thanks for being honest with the issues.
  • #26,296
  • Nov 15, 2023 4:39pm Nov 15, 2023 4:39pm
Good news for MFF.
  • #26,297
  • Nov 15, 2023 5:46pm Nov 15, 2023 5:46pm
Quoting Boulder
{quote} I am trading FTMO too, I figurred out how to do crypto payment. Thanks Regarding to those HFT firms, I don't mind as long as they pay me. It is pretty easy for me and it usually takes me a few hours to pass those HFT challenges . Once i get live accounts, I manual traded them , since hft only allowed for challenge stage not for live. all I need is to follow the rules in live accounts and not greedy for payout, ( 6% and under) , I have gotten paid by them. eg Nova funding, I passed their challenges within 3 hours, and got live accounts within...
Ah, Okay. Misunderstood. I thought you were using the HFT strategy for any other prop firms too.

Best of success to you with it. I’m still working on getting passed my first FTMO challenge. Maybe once I am retired I will get there lol.

I didn’t even know about Nova Funding. There are so many of these firms now.
  • #26,298
  • Nov 15, 2023 6:14pm Nov 15, 2023 6:14pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Why not just use FTMO’s trial account? It’s unlimited access. You can cancel and create new one on demand.
Yes, good point. I think it’s limited to 1 user and 1 trial account at a time. I would like to forward test multiple strategies/parameters simultaneously.

Further the trial account only reflects half of the time, requirements and goals of a regular challenge account. So you always have to put your metrics/results into perspective.
  • #26,299
  • Nov 15, 2023 8:11pm Nov 15, 2023 8:11pm
Quoting lddd
{quote} Yes, good point. I think it’s limited to 1 user and 1 trial account at a time. I would like to forward test multiple strategies/parameters simultaneously. Further the trial account only reflects half of the time, requirements and goals of a regular challenge account. So you always have to put your metrics/results into perspective.
I think you can still trade the demo account past the 14 days. But FTMO will stop updating your metrics inside the client area after 14 days
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #26,300
  • Nov 15, 2023 8:47pm Nov 15, 2023 8:47pm
Quoting lddd
{quote} Yes, good point. I think it’s limited to 1 user and 1 trial account at a time. I would like to forward test multiple strategies/parameters simultaneously. Further the trial account only reflects half of the time, requirements and goals of a regular challenge account. So you always have to put your metrics/results into perspective.
you can create unlimited accounts with temp email's, they really let you practice.
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