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  • #25,481
  • Nov 4, 2023 3:21am Nov 4, 2023 3:21am
Quoting sampat
I take my words back you can do but you need to do it 3 times more with more or less same results for example if I have 50K account and I make 2K one day I need to make over all 6K and god forbid if I make 4K after making 2K on prvious day day I need to make at least 12K to be eligible for withdrawal.
I'm still laughing at this comment. One may be digging a deeper and deeper hole when he..... makes too much profit

Yep, I guess this is part of their business model. People will be forced to make more to respect the 30% and that may be a cause to lose their accounts.
  • #25,482
  • Nov 4, 2023 3:43am Nov 4, 2023 3:43am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'm still laughing at this comment. One may be digging a deeper and deeper hole when he..... makes too much profit Yep, I guess this is part of their business model. People will be forced to make more to respect the 30% and that may be a cause to lose their accounts.
The solution is buy multiple 25K accounts at discount; pass eval as soon as you can; if you pass, make exactly 500 per account a day for 3 days. Request withdrawal.
  • #25,483
  • Nov 4, 2023 3:54am Nov 4, 2023 3:54am
Quoting Markula
{quote} let us know how it works out, I was looking at diamond hands too, if you get paid, then I'll try too
There is no promo anymore, but I mentioned this company and tick tick... as alternative. Basically tick tick express 100k account is like one step challenge with refunded fee, costs only 99$ , need to check faq and rules details more.

I am with earn2trade and topstep at the moment. What i like with topstep it's everything automated. When u reach max position size you not allowed open more, when u reach daily DD all trades are closed but is no violation, you wait till next day. This should be done on forex props long time ago. Instead of failing traders trades should be closed when daily DD reached automatically and u are able to trade next day.
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  • #25,484
  • Edited 8:17am Nov 4, 2023 7:09am | Edited 8:17am
Quoting WtraderM
{quote} Thank you for the reply although I'm still unsure what is the final position on futures trading by retail investors based on these reports... " BaFin - Pressemitteilungen - Produktintervention: BaFin will Privatkunden bei Handel mit Futures … " the "freelancer" and based on the freelncer list is not recognized by the tax office so the solution is to start a company but because I had read in comments...
Ehrlich gesagt, ist das Ganze nur für Profis etwas. Du zeigst, dass Du nicht über Basiswissen verfügst. Daher sollte man Dir generell abraten so etwas mitzumachen. Auch wenn Du angestellt bist und auf das Kleingeld (=Gehalt oder Haltegeld) angewiesen bist, solltest Du nicht ständig mit dem Damoklessschwert der Bafin im Kopf herumspuken. Also zum lezten Mal. Du meldest Dich beim Finanzamt als Freiberufler an und machst nach Jahresende eine Einkommensteuererklärung. Es gibt auch nur vituelle Konten bei jedem Prop Anbieter. Alles andere ist gelogen und soll Seriösität vorgaukeln. In Wahrheit schaffen es mindestens 99.9% wenn nicht oft sogar 100% bei den meisten Prop Firmen aller Orders nicht in den direkten Markt, so dass praktisch alles Spielgeld ist und kein echter Handel. Damit hat sich dann auch die Frage nach irgendwelchen Bafin Lizenzen erledigt. Wenn hier jemand überhaupt eine Lizenz benötigt, dann ist das die Prop Trading Firma. Aber das ist eine andere Frage und geht Dich als Trader nichts an. Bei Unsicherheiten hilft mit Sicherheit ein Steuerberater weiter, einfach mal dazu googlen. Zweitens gibt es kein Berufsverbot und kein Verbot vom Handel irgendwelcher Produkte. Aber wenn Du Deine Hausaufgaben nicht machen kannst, und Dir jedes Mal beim Wort Bafin in die Hosen scheisst, lass es sein. Du zeigst nicht die nötige geistige Reife noch geschweige dass Du hier Erfahrung im Trading hast. Beste Grüße vom (promovierten langjährigen Vollzeit) Profitrader.
  • #25,485
  • Edited 5:25pm Nov 4, 2023 7:22am | Edited 5:25pm
TFT banned Malaysia and Vietnam
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  • #25,486
  • Edited 8:00am Nov 4, 2023 7:35am | Edited 8:00am
Quoting Capablanca
TFF banned Malaysia and Vietnam {image}
I am surpised it is not Pakistan beside Vietnam. Malaysia never heard bad things, maybe they are too net positive it terms of payouts versus fees. Also MFF banned Vietnam. So not a big surprise at all. I think a few other props have also similar country restrictions. Cannot list all of them. Vietnam had a lot of fake IDs on registration as problem. So some traders wanted to increase max. capital or just multiple persons reverse account trading or I do not know if the Mafia was involved too from that country. Pakistan I heard a lot of groups trading with interaction together. So nothing what would be allowed in any terms of any prop firm. They made just too much work for the props to sort this out. And in relation to the fees those props made a decision then. The staff capacity can be used then for other more relevant matters.
  • #25,487
  • Nov 4, 2023 8:28am Nov 4, 2023 8:28am
Anyone knows they at Apex are simulating market fills based on best bid and ask volume ? So they also simulate slippage when you enter a larger contract fill especially when you do copy trading across 20 accounts ? Who knows that. Example Bid volume is 3 contracts and you want to enter with 3 contracts but with 20 accounts. So would you get a lot of slippage if you entered then with 3*20= 60 contracts at market ? Otherwise they would allow cheating a lot on unrealistic fills at Apex. When I am correct with my assumption here, then any copy trader is useless, unless you are trading 1 or 2 contracts on the broad E-mini SP Future, otherwise you get a lot of slippage when copying market orders to all your (up to 20) accounts. It is better to trade them manually each one by one after another to avoid slippage. Your opinion ?
  • #25,488
  • Nov 4, 2023 8:42am Nov 4, 2023 8:42am
Quoting Thoughts
{quote}The solution is buy multiple 25K accounts at discount; pass eval as soon as you can; if you pass, make exactly 500 per account a day for 3 days. Request withdrawal.
Need to trade 10 days between each withdrawal request.
  • #25,489
  • Nov 4, 2023 8:45am Nov 4, 2023 8:45am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Need to trade 10 days between each withdrawal request.
But when there is no minimum time limit, you can just open and close 1 contract within seconds and you have $10 around as cost for the spread and commission.
So for those 7 days ca. $70 as cost. You cannot trade micros on PA accounts at Apex I read. And there is no waiting time in between of payout requests.
You also need to trade the average trade size you trade to meet 10 days, because there is also the 20% flipping rule.
  • #25,490
  • Nov 4, 2023 8:56am Nov 4, 2023 8:56am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But when there is no minimum time limit, you can just open and close 1 contract within seconds and you have $10 around as cost for the spread and commission. So for those 7 days ca. $70 as cost. You cannot trade micros on PA accounts at Apex I read. And there is no waiting time in between of payout requests. You also need to trade the average trade size you trade to meet 10 days, because there is also the 20% flipping rule.
You may request and receive a payout Twice Per Month:
Request Dates: 1st-5th --- Paid out on the 15th
Approvals may happen any time between the 1st and 14th of the month
Request Dates: 15th -20th--- Paid out on the 30th ( Or last day of the month)
Approvals may happen any time between the 15th and the 29th
YES- you can keep trading right away once you request a payout. You do NOT need to wait to trade until the payout is approved. Just be sure to trade as if the funds were already approved and removed from your balance, keeping in mind minimum thresholds to not blow the account.

For your first payout, you must have a total of 10 (ten) separate, individual, trading days, where trades were actual placed on those ten days, according to the PA guidelines, before you can request the first payout. Each ongoing payout request also requires the same minimum of 10 (ten) trading days between payout requests, where trades were actually traded on ten individual, separate trading days. The 10 active trading days is from request to request, not based on request approval dates, when the funds were deducted from the trading account, or when payouts were sent or received. So, there must be 10 separate qualified trading days between any withdrawal requests, whether the previous request was approved or denied.
  • #25,491
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:03am Nov 4, 2023 9:03am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'm still laughing at this comment. One may be digging a deeper and deeper hole when he..... makes too much profit Yep, I guess this is part of their business model. People will be forced to make more to respect the 30% and that may be a cause to lose their accounts.
I think this rule is not terrible, perhaps, if you are able to make a 30% (apex) or 40% (as I read in EliteTraderFunding), you should be happy of that and be confident in yourself (consistency) that you can continue to trade other days and reach the goal to have that days lowered below the average they want.

Please correct me, I remember that prop firms with this consistency rule doesn't give you the option to trade more and lower that ration, but instead they close your account and let you fail. Or for forex is the same? (Fundednext and similars)

Quoting TrAndy1
Anyone knows they at Apex are simulating market fills based on best bid and ask volume ? So they also simulate slippage when you enter a larger contract fill especially when you do copy trading across 20 accounts ? Who knows that. Example Bid volume is 3 contracts and you want to enter with 3 contracts but with 20 accounts. So would you get a lot of slippage if you entered then with 3*20= 60 contracts at market ? Otherwise they would allow cheating a lot on unrealistic fills at Apex. When I am correct with my assumption here, then any copy trader...
Do you send market orders so frequently? I would use just limit orders, so I guess that the trades are copied also "limit" and I would not be worried about slippage.
Perhaps, having 20 accounts I would be happy already to trade each of them with 1 lot, so the max number of lots, 20 for micros and minis should be so large number for the order book for 24 hours a day.
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,492
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:22am Nov 4, 2023 9:22am
Alright 1 week update on all 3 x 200k challenges …. Cleared phase 1 on all of them.
Current balances on phase 2

1. blue guardian : 201,129 (3.5% to go)
2. Skilled funded: 200,000 (6% to go)
3. My flash funding: 199,814 (6% to go)

Btw friday was a loser was up 3% on MFF but lost it coz of cable shorts
will try to wrap them this week..
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #25,493
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:23am Nov 4, 2023 9:23am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But when there is no minimum time limit, you can just open and close 1 contract within seconds and you have $10 around as cost for the spread and commission. So for those 7 days ca. $70 as cost. You cannot trade micros on PA accounts at Apex I read. And there is no waiting time in between of payout requests. You also need to trade the average trade size you trade to meet 10 days, because there is also the 20% flipping rule.
Please can you post this rule? this is very important, since I have to decide today what are program to add.

I spent all my night in Europe, to make calculations and compare, I found very interesting EliteTradingFunding diversified offers, to understand how could impact a program with just "Trailing drawdown real time" or "Trailing drawdown EndOfDay" and "Static Drawdown".
I found the Elite Static drawdown with 1300$ drawdown interesting, in the same of APEX but double sites, but the fee even at -60% discount yesterday didn't worth for me to try, because for now I will just test the lowest fees of APEX with the Trailing Drawdown.

Next week will be important for me because I will do 5 days trading against 3 only I did this ending week for the first time learning Apex, Tradovate, joining again on the real world of a real price order book of futures... was already a very good experience.

What I think is this, and I will have a confirmation at the end of next week:

1. the 25K and 50K accounts at apex and around, that are "trailing" if you have a good winning streaks are easy to pass in 3-4 days.
Problem is that after that you will have to have another good winning streak to do it on the PA account.
And after that, you have to have another good winning streak to "get far from the DD level that won't trail anymore"
So your job should be not the one to think to make profit, but to reach this goal, the goal is not the profit, but, to have the DD not trailing anymore.

Now for what I think, if you are aggressive and experienced, you could be fine on that, but also, you will have bigger chance to fail. Is a 50% chance.

So I'm thinking, to test 50K accounts and 300K accounts, and to feel how it fit my trading style.

The Elite programs with EOD trailing, could help even A LOT, to save a day and make this "trailing" program better.

Finally the Static, I think could be the best experience for many. EliteTraderFunding is the best site for now I found with a well diversified offer
where you can think about how each program could work with your trading style.

2. APEX: Trandy said that in PA accounts (the funded account) you can't use the micros! this would make worth nothing the small accounts, and to me unique choice to take advantage of the 90% off promo, would be the 300K because I can't make money using MINI big contracts and going full in, I need to use a small portion of the lots, and MINI... are 220.000$ contracts....

Today I will continue to learn how others props works like TopStep, Earn2Trade, TradingPit, to have a better picture and be ready when will come on market huge offers, in BlackFriday or Christmas.
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,494
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:29am Nov 4, 2023 9:29am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But when there is no minimum time limit, you can just open and close 1 contract within seconds and you have $10 around as cost for the spread and commission. So for those 7 days ca. $70 as cost. You cannot trade micros on PA accounts at Apex I read. And there is no waiting time in between of payout requests. You also need to trade the average trade size you trade to meet 10 days, because there is also the 20% flipping rule.
Hello Trandy, can you find this rule about PA and micros? this will be very important rule that will make almost worthless small accounts and unique to use the 300K.
I will try to search the rule in APEX. Again, I'm used to their site, but to collect all the rules one to one, is becoming a bit a challenge itself. But overall I love it.
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,495
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:32am Nov 4, 2023 9:32am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Do you send market orders so frequently? I would use just limit orders, so I guess that the trades are copied also "limit" and I would not be worried about slippage. Perhaps, having 20 accounts I would be happy already to trade each of them with 1 lot, so the max number of lots, 20 for micros and minis should be so large number for the order book for 24 hours a day.
The question is irrelevant. You're connected via Rithmic, Tradovate, CQG, etc. Apex has no control over that, is a third party data. Im connected via CQG on my AMP live account and there is no difference between that and my sim Tradovate with Apex. Its nowhere similar to FX.

As supposed ballers in the Futures space, you and Trandy1 should know this.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,496
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:34am Nov 4, 2023 9:34am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} 2. APEX: Trandy said ....
Why are you relying on someone who has zero experience in futures and futures props?

Its like the blind leading the blind FFS.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,497
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:39am Nov 4, 2023 9:39am
Quoting pipmaster77
The 10 active trading days is from request to request, not based on request approval dates, when the funds were deducted from the trading account, or when payouts were sent or received. So, there must be 10 separate qualified trading days between any withdrawal requests, whether the previous request was approved or denied.
So, if I understand this correctly, the best you can achieve is a payout each 14 days, assuming that you don't miss any of the 5 trading sessions during the week (I'm not considering here public holidays).
  • #25,498
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:41am Nov 4, 2023 9:41am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Hello Trandy, can you find this rule about PA and micros? this will be very important rule that will make almost worthless small accounts and unique to use the 300K. I will try to search the rule in APEX. Again, I'm used to their site, but to collect all the rules one to one, is becoming a bit a challenge itself. But overall I love it.
Read this, but cannot find it anymore.
  • #25,499
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:43am Nov 4, 2023 9:43am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} The question is irrelevant. You're connected via Rithmic, Tradovate, CQG, etc. Apex has no control over that, is a third party data. Im connected via CQG on my AMP live account and there is no difference between that and my sim Tradovate with Apex. Its nowhere similar to FX. As supposed ballers in the Futures space, you and Trandy1 should know this.
I never trade my life in demos, that's the problem for these futures demo. So I can't "feel" yet, what I can lose in term of execution on this demos.

Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Read this, but cannot find it anymore.
OK I will send a ticket to APEX and update everybody here.

If anyone knows, that we can't trade micros in APEX PA funded accounts, please answer.
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,500
  • Nov 4, 2023 9:49am Nov 4, 2023 9:49am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I never trade my life in demos, that's the problem for these futures demo. So I can't "feel" yet, what I can lose in term of execution on this demos. {quote} OK I will send a ticket to APEX and update everybody here. If anyone knows, that we can't trade micros in APEX PA funded accounts, please answer.
Check their YouTube and FB group, your questions are answered there. Links are on their site.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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