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  • #24,701
  • Edited 9:05am Oct 26, 2023 6:25am | Edited 9:05am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} You seem to be totally confused about what we discuss here and what makes a retail prop firm legitimate
No not confused at all, the "Prop" phrase is just marketing for affiliates and customers as FTMO describe.

So what is it? They only provide services for simulated trading and educational trading tools. Still think you are a prop trader? Just trying to keeps things real.

Unless things become more transparent and honest there is going to be another big fall, in EU this time. Think ESMA are happy the yanks get all the booty?
  • #24,702
  • Oct 26, 2023 6:53am Oct 26, 2023 6:53am
Thanks everybody for the clarification after my post.
My conclusion, try to suck out as much as possible from my prop and transfer it to my broker account.
Don´t even dream of opening a new account on any prop.

In the meantime, you guys complain about the US?
Try Germany where I (still), live, it is going fast (very fast), toward communism . Trading is almost completely forbidden already and will be soon.
  • #24,703
  • Edited 7:16am Oct 26, 2023 7:04am | Edited 7:16am
Quoting cuchuflito
Thanks everybody for the clarification after my post. My conclusion, try to suck out as much as possible from my prop and transfer it to my broker account. Don´t even dream of opening a new account on any prop. In the meantime, you guys complain about the US? Try Germany where I (still), live, it is going fast (very fast), toward communism . Trading is almost completely forbidden already and will be soon.
Yes treat it like a cash machine and withdraw at every opportunity.

They want you back in the mines and factories... sadly I don't think it is one you can turn around in Germany at least anytime soon, I do quite a lot of work with your country, domestic politics there seem odd and a bit strange from the outside.
  • #24,704
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:07am Oct 26, 2023 7:07am
Quoting cuchuflito
Thanks everybody for the clarification after my post. My conclusion, try to suck out as much as possible from my prop and transfer it to my broker account. Don´t even dream of opening a new account on any prop. In the meantime, you guys complain about the US? Try Germany where I (still), live, it is going fast (very fast), toward communism . Trading is almost completely forbidden already and will be soon.
There is still the ridiculous law that is forbidden to deduct any more than 20k losses from derivatives like Futures or CFDs, or Options. So in case you made 150k gains and 100k losses here you can only deduct 20k losses from your 150k gain, so you need to pay full taxes on 130k gains which can be in taxes higher than the total amount of net gains (here 50k only). This is bad joke but true. You need to fight in court to get your right back to deduct all made losses. And the worst it comes from finance minister in the previous government who is now the cancellor, so the most powerful politician in Germany. It is against the constitution this law, but he never mind it. Too bad. So everyone needs to fight in court, what a hassle. That is good old Germany. In no first world country the tax on capital gains can be effective higher than 100%. Then you are forced to go to court to claim your right with the constitution. Which is mostly only a formal case. Imagine millions of claims because of that.
  • #24,705
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:39am Oct 26, 2023 7:39am
But any losses in cash like stocks or Forex can be deducted unlimited. You see what a joke the legislation in Germany is. Those (some) politicians behave like children.
  • #24,706
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:43am Oct 26, 2023 7:43am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} There is still the ridiculous law that is forbidden to deduct any more than 20k losses from derivatives like Futures or CFDs, or Options. So in case you made 150k gains and 100k losses here you can only deduct 20k losses from your 150k gain, so you need to pay full taxes on 130k gains which can be in taxes higher than the total amount of net gains (here 50k only). This is bad joke but true. You need to fight in court to get your right back to deduct all made losses. And the worst it comes from finance minister in the previous government...
Imagining an extreme scenario where someone makes 1M in profits and 1M in losses to end up the year breakeven.

This means that you deduct 20K from 1M and pay taxes over 980K ?!

That's a fcking joke.
  • #24,707
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:45am Oct 26, 2023 7:45am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Imagining an extreme scenario where someone makes 1M in profits and 1M in losses to end up the year breakeven. This means that you deduct 20K from 1M and pay taxes over 980K ?! That's a fcking joke.
Yeah, this is as private person. If you have a business and trade as company you can deduct everything. But as private you can only deduct 20k except stocks & Forex.
  • #24,708
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:47am Oct 26, 2023 7:47am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Imagining an extreme scenario where someone makes 1M in profits and 1M in losses to end up the year breakeven. This means that you deduct 20K from 1M and pay taxes over 980K ?! That's a fcking joke.
If you do not fight against court you will pay taxes on that 980k "gains". So in case you do not pay all taxes you can go to jail rightafter. So everyone is forced to claim...
  • #24,709
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:52am Oct 26, 2023 7:52am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Yeah, this is as private person. If you have a business and trade as company you can deduct everything. But as private you can only deduct 20k except stocks & Forex.
Do you have a link, even in german for that ?
It's something amazing. Never heard about such a tupid thing.
  • #24,710
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:54am Oct 26, 2023 7:54am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Do you have a link, even in german for that ? It's something amazing. Never heard about such a tupid thing.
You need to autotranslate on that link. This comes from the former finance minister who is now the cancellor. So stupid...german madness from the most powerful one...
https://finanzmarktwelt.de/steuern-d...0-euro-187022/
  • #24,711
  • Oct 26, 2023 7:59am Oct 26, 2023 7:59am
If anyone is looking one step program without trailing DD try TFF. 3% daily loss 6% overall 10% target. Daily loss resets by equity or balance whichever higher. I passed 1 phase, but failed funded just before wanted withdrawal. I didn't close my longs on indeces Friday before Palestine conflict started on weekend. Stupid mistake i forgot TFF is based on cash and closes hour earlier Also after withdrawal you receive new account, withdrawal doesn't affect allowable DD.
  • #24,712
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:01am Oct 26, 2023 8:01am
Quoting youngD
If anyone is looking one step program without trailing DD try TFF. 3% daily loss 6% overall 10% target. Daily loss resets by equity or balance whichever higher. I passed 1 phase, but failed funded just before wanted withdrawal. I didn't close my longs on indeces Friday before Palestine conflict started on weekend. Stupid mistake i forgot TFF is based on cash and closes hour earlier Also after withdrawal you receive new account, withdrawal doesn't affect allowable DD.
Finotive and CTI also have static DD on 1 step.
I think these 3 are the only ones.
  • #24,713
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:04am Oct 26, 2023 8:04am
Quoting youngD
If anyone is looking one step program without trailing DD try TFF. 3% daily loss 6% overall 10% target. Daily loss resets by equity or balance whichever higher. I passed 1 phase, but failed funded just before wanted withdrawal. I didn't close my longs on indeces Friday before Palestine conflict started on weekend. Stupid mistake i forgot TFF is based on cash and closes hour earlier Also after withdrawal you receive new account, withdrawal doesn't affect allowable DD.
but so far are u doing okay with tff, i heard they aren't paying traders. i recall there was a twitter scandal of a guy who guy big payout got rejected. they offered him give it to him but only when the issue gets escalated to the public.
  • #24,714
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:06am Oct 26, 2023 8:06am
[quote=TrAndy1;14632018]{quote} There is still the ridiculous law that is forbidden to deduct any more than 20k losses from derivatives like Futures or CFDs, or

Exactly, I did not want to get into that,but it was one of the reasons I thought PROP was the solution, sadly it might be just a little helpful.
Actually, a trader in Germany made like 100 K in profits last year, ended up with 500K tax debt (!!!!), went to court in Köln, and kind of won the case. Gess what, Finanzamt Köln, appealed that decision. They are commited to ruining him financially for the rest of his days. No matter what, maybe he has children, a mother to take care of, just ruthless communism.
  • #24,715
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:11am Oct 26, 2023 8:11am
Quoting cuchuflito
Thanks everybody for the clarification after my post. My conclusion, try to suck out as much as possible from my prop and transfer it to my broker account. Don´t even dream of opening a new account on any prop. In the meantime, you guys complain about the US? Try Germany where I (still), live, it is going fast (very fast), toward communism . Trading is almost completely forbidden already and will be soon.
it’s up to you. Personally I will still buy challenges. Just be sure to make first small withdrawal to recover the fees. After that it’s all profits.
Forex is very risky anyway and the fees are still limited comparatively to what you would lose in your brokerage account in case of unexpected event.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #24,716
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:12am Oct 26, 2023 8:12am
Quoting KoyaAndy18
{quote} but so far are u doing okay with tff, i heard they aren't paying traders. i recall there was a twitter scandal of a guy who guy big payout got rejected. they offered him give it to him but only when the issue gets escalated to the public.
which twitter trader and what kind of size of payout ? When was that too ?
  • #24,717
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:16am Oct 26, 2023 8:16am
the guy is originally on this forum, that was last year (then he provided a link to that twitter post). i don't have a link any more. its a $ 6 digit payout if i remember correctly. prior to that tff wasnt active or posting anything for 6 months.
  • #24,718
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:22am Oct 26, 2023 8:22am
Quoting Nic2020
{quote} But then thousand of people would be doing something illegal according to you. Do you think risk is real for average trader in that firm? Also, in the mff website is says that yet they dont have power to make refunds. Guess maybe they do it in the near future? what do you all think? Possible?
bump
  • #24,719
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:29am Oct 26, 2023 8:29am
Quoting Nic2020
{quote} bump
I cannot say more, it is just my opinion as I am not lawyer nor I am involved in the CFTC vs. MFF case.

What I can say for sure is, that when real money is involved and real money invested it means there is legal license required from you or from prop. No way out of this...

Any prop who is saying they are EVENTUALLY do A-booking, they CERTAINLY need a license as forex broker (when it is own datafeed) AND Financial advisor license too!
  • #24,720
  • Oct 26, 2023 8:59am Oct 26, 2023 8:59am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You are dead wrong. Such prop firms existed since 1998 at least. This industry is over 25 years old. First there were Future props with additional capital especially because for the high margins the exchange demanded. So there was a need. Nowadays on FX prop since 2012 it is only for the additional capital or max. DD you get for the fee. This industry will survive longer than you think for sure. Just think on FX broker industry. In US it is nearly dead but still very alive across the globe. That's it.
never compare real prop company with this new age prop trading game companies, who dont invest any real money and all have in demo accounts.
thats nothing to compare, all different, they just use for marketing prop name, but are just a simple trading game.

you need to know you do a trading game and no real prop trading, thats important. or you will think total wrong about even the starting basic and follow planing get wrong because of start mistakes. ever know what you do ,or you will have no chance to get a professional trader in 10 years.
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