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  • #22,661
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:07pm Sep 23, 2023 12:07pm
Quoting navk
{quote} State will not say to firms to abandon existing clients and their money. If says so, stupidity.
They won't. Just US citizens. They'd be breaking their own law if they allowed payments to continue would they not? So I guess they'd force fee refunds which would collapse any firm if they were heavy US client biased. IF that was passed of course which I hope it doesn't.

My fear is as well as a raid on MFFs bank account to pay for Joe's and his lad's bad habits they will form some ridiculous legislation.
  • #22,662
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:07pm Sep 23, 2023 12:07pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Interesting insight. I dont see how someone can misappropriate customer funds, if the funds technically do not belong to the customer after purchase. There are sooooooooooo many variables here I think the CFTC doesnt even know them. If they use misappropriation it will need to be of company funds far lesser charge than customer funds but still annoying.
Right. misappropriation of customer funds would be a broker using a deposit of a customer for personal use, as that depsoit belongs to the customer. Once you purchase a challenge, the funds are no longer yours. Unless, the fact that they are promised to be refunded comes into play. perhaps, then, they are technically still the customers until if/when they pass/fail the challenge?
Yes, you are correct. Way too many variables and to complicate matters, once again, the CFTC has NO IDEA what their job even consists of.
  • #22,663
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:11pm Sep 23, 2023 12:11pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} I think that is bad advice. If there is a ruling then they will not be able to make payments as well as take payments from US customers. So you've not only wasted your fee, you've also wasted your time as well. The psychological fallout of not getting a big payout due to you will do much more damage than losing your fee.
I will leave this now as I do want to be a great defender of this idea. But MFFX has shown how that could be handled in the near term.

Second, it is always better I think to have a foot in the door than staying completely outside, just in case...especially if you are US American or Canadian.

Third, if the challenge fee is not too much invested money for someone (as you get a lot of value on many prop firms right now), I would diversify as hell (on no time limit challenges where you can keep those accounts on hold too for example), only looking to buy $50k or $100k accounts. Just in case there is something you are better to stay diversified right now. But of course your opinion is also legitimate...
  • #22,664
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:19pm Sep 23, 2023 12:19pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I will leave this now as I do want to be a great defender of this idea. But MFFX has shown how that could be handled in the near term. Second, it is always better I think to have a foot in the door than staying completely outside, just in case...especially if you are US American or Canadian. Third, if the challenge fee is not too much invested money for someone (as you get a lot of value on many prop firms right now), I would diversify as hell (on no time limit challenges where you can keep those accounts on hold too for example), only looking...
For me this landscape has changed. No longer are there any prop firms looking for traders to trade their money and split the profits (if there were any in the first place).

This is a house of cards, if you get a payout before it folds all well and good but I wouldn't post any "advice" as it looks like you're pumping it so they don't go bust before your payouts..? We've seen enough of that in crypto.
  • #22,665
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:24pm Sep 23, 2023 12:24pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} For me this landscape has changed. No longer are there any prop firms looking for traders to trade their money and split the profits (if there were any in the first place). This is a house of cards, if you get a payout before it folds all well and good but I wouldn't post any "advice" as it looks like you're pumping it so they don't go bust before your payouts..? We've seen enough of that in crypto.
Funny, I did not assume any loosing trader here. But yeah if it helps that I can get my payout more safely, why not advicing this... (Then you need to join Bespoke.)
No, it was a casino model from the beginning. You needed to be naive if you ever believed that the whole money was made from A-booking or copying profitable traders.
  • #22,666
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:25pm Sep 23, 2023 12:25pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} They won't. Just US citizens. They'd be breaking their own law if they allowed payments to continue would they not? So I guess they'd force fee refunds which would collapse any firm if they were heavy US client biased. IF that was passed of course which I hope it doesn't. My fear is as well as a raid on MFFs bank account to pay for Joe's and his lad's bad habits they will form some ridiculous legislation.
That is not ruled out, but one can not decide action for future developments.

Let me tell you what happened with FTMO.

Indian regulators banned FTMO some months ago.

Only the new sign ups were banned but existing clients were safe and Indian regulator, SEBI, did no harm any Indian citizrns account and their money.
Intraday only.
  • #22,667
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:26pm Sep 23, 2023 12:26pm
Quoting navk
{quote} That is not ruled out, but one can not decide action for future developments. Let me tell you what happened with FTMO. Indian regulators banned FTMO some months ago. Only the new sign ups were banned but existing clients were safe and Indian regulator, SEBI, did no harm any Indian citizens account and their money.
Exactly. That is what I thought of too (as possible outcome). But everyone needs to make his own thoughts and then build his own opinion. It is the same like in trading.
  • #22,668
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:30pm Sep 23, 2023 12:30pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I will leave this now as I do want to be a great defender of this idea. But MFFX has shown how that could be handled in the near term. Second, it is always better I think to have a foot in the door than staying completely outside, just in case...especially if you are US American or Canadian. Third, if the challenge fee is not too much invested money for someone (as you get a lot of value on many prop firms right now), I would diversify as hell (on no time limit challenges where you can keep those accounts on hold too for example), only looking...
Yes, I still have active accounts at Tradersway and FXChoice, although they ceased taking NEW US cusomers like 3 years ago.
  • #22,669
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:32pm Sep 23, 2023 12:32pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} They won't. Just US citizens. They'd be breaking their own law if they allowed payments to continue would they not? So I guess they'd force fee refunds which would collapse any firm if they were heavy US client biased. IF that was passed of course which I hope it doesn't. My fear is as well as a raid on MFFs bank account to pay for Joe's and his lad's bad habits they will form some ridiculous legislation.
I might be wrong but I see CFTC targeting just one entity, not the whole industry like in the Binance case. The end result might not necessarily be that US clients would be banned from using prop firms. In order to ban the whole industry, they probably would have to prove that the whole modus operandi is a Ponzi or that every prop is breaking certain US laws/regulation. For example with forex brokers they required every broker to be licensed and the cost would be about 20 million to obtain one. That made it almost impossible for any normal broker to get a license. I guess a lot will also depend what will be included the the settlement if they don't go to court.
  • #22,670
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:35pm Sep 23, 2023 12:35pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} I might be wrong but I see CFTC targeting just one entity, not the whole industry like in the Binance case. The end result might not necessarily be that US clients would be banned from using prop firms. In order to ban the whole industry, they probably would have to prove that the whole modus operandi is a Ponzi or that every prop is breaking certain US laws/regulation. For example with forex brokers they required every broker to be licensed and the cost would be about 20 million to obtain one. That made it almost impossible for any normal...
there are cases behind this. We already know because people involved have dropped the ball and leaked they are involved. TFT/easton tech for sure is coming.
  • #22,671
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:35pm Sep 23, 2023 12:35pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Funny, I did not assume any loosing trader here. But yeah if it helps that I can get my payout more safely, why not advicing this... (Then you need to join Bespoke.) No, it was a casino model from the beginning. You needed to be naive if you ever believed that the whole money was made from A-booking or copying profitable traders.
So why would you give any US company money or risk a non payout when they are likely to lose a large proportion of their revenue if they can't onboard US citizens. You telling me what's left is financially strong enough to survive that wave? Haven't payments already begun to stall from certain companies?
Pump n dump at its finest.
  • #22,672
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:41pm Sep 23, 2023 12:41pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} I might be wrong but I see CFTC targeting just one entity, not the whole industry like in the Binance case. The end result might not necessarily be that US clients would be banned from using prop firms. In order to ban the whole industry, they probably would have to prove that the whole modus operandi is a Ponzi or that every prop is breaking certain US laws/regulation. For example with forex brokers they required every broker to be licensed and the cost would be about 20 million to obtain one. That made it almost impossible for any normal...
If their MO is just a strong arm money raid which I think it is partly they'll have to create a legislation for something that maybe doesn't exist yet. If they are also employed from higher lobbying powers (which the conspiracy nut in me thinks they are) then they probably will create a precedent. Hope not.
  • #22,673
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:41pm Sep 23, 2023 12:41pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} So why would you give any US company money or risk a non payout when they are likely to lose a large proportion of their revenue if they can't onboard US citizens. You telling me what's left is financially strong enough to survive that wave? Haven't payments already begun to stall from certain companies? Pump n dump at its finest.
I do not know the outcome, what, which and how many payouts will be made or denied. But I made for me a chance to risk calculation what I am gonna loose if if take some challenges to get payout(s). If I traded only my personal account I am 100% risk at. I could loose much more than taking a few challenges on those props. Of course it depends on each his finances and risk appetites too. But I already made the decision for me. It is up to everyone to join any prop firm right now or not....
  • #22,674
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:45pm Sep 23, 2023 12:45pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I do not know the outcome, what, which and how many payouts will be made or denied. But I made for me a chance to risk calculation what I am gonna loose if if take some challenges to get payout(s). If I traded only my personal account I am 100% risk at. I could loose much more than taking a few challenges on those props. Of course it depends on each his finances and risk appetites too. But I already made the decision for me. It is up to everyone to join any prop firm right now or not....
One can not take a dcision based on MFF situation.

But a calculated risk , one can always take at anytime.

Forex trading itself is after all a risk matter.
Intraday only.
  • #22,675
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:45pm Sep 23, 2023 12:45pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} there are cases behind this. We already know because people involved have dropped the ball and leaked they are involved. TFT/easton tech for sure is coming.
Sure but as long as they go after individual companies there will be no ban for taking US clients and some props could even continue operating in US until they change the regulation.
  • #22,676
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:46pm Sep 23, 2023 12:46pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} If their MO is just a strong arm money raid which I think it is partly they'll have to create a legislation for something that maybe doesn't exist yet. If they are also employed from higher lobbying powers (which the conspiracy nut in me thinks they are) then they probably will create a precedent. Hope not.
You are not a conspiracy nut. You are 100% dead on correct.
  • #22,677
  • Sep 23, 2023 12:49pm Sep 23, 2023 12:49pm
If MFF is out from problems, who knows..they may announce 1000 $ bonus to each and every existing client for waiting patiently and offer 40 % discount on all plans to all new and existing clinets.

Everyone would rush to MFF that time.

Intraday only.
  • #22,678
  • Sep 23, 2023 1:25pm Sep 23, 2023 1:25pm
Quoting navk
If MFF is out from problems, who knows..they may announce 1000 $ bonus to each and every existing client for waiting patiently and offer 40 % discount on all plans to all new and existing clinets. Everyone would rush to MFF that time.
I dont think they will re-open just to bankrupt themselves.

If they do manage to come back, I would suspect they will settle existing liabilities and then run their new systems they were teasing before this happened. I dont suspect they will just be like "HEy WE ARE BACK HERES A COUPON"
  • #22,679
  • Sep 23, 2023 1:29pm Sep 23, 2023 1:29pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I dont think they will re-open just to bankrupt themselves. If they do manage to come back, I would suspect they will settle existing liabilities and then run their new systems they were teasing before this happened. I dont suspect they will just be like "HEy WE ARE BACK HERES A COUPON"
And moving to off shore is option for them too.

They tasted success in this business, lucarative.
Intraday only.
  • #22,680
  • Sep 23, 2023 1:48pm Sep 23, 2023 1:48pm
Quoting navk
{quote} And moving to off shore is option for them too. They tasted success in this business, lucarative.
At the moment they cant do shit. Imagine applying for a company and business account? "Is this you sir with the fraud allegations?" "yep thats me... I would like 1 USD and 1 EUR account please" "Yehhhh we arent going to do that sir, wait there a minute i have to make a phone call" *Dials 911*.
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