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  • #21,301
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:01pm Sep 10, 2023 1:01pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Maybe they are letting Thinkmarkets to do it for them. However, I don't think that normal slippage is a key issue for being successful or not.
Got it in 1. Also, you can time the delay on their feed pretty freakin' easily. No broker operates without delays and slippage because its impossible to survive without it.
  • #21,302
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:41pm Sep 10, 2023 1:41pm
Quoting navk
{quote} what is market maker broker ? Does regulator allow market maker kind ? And one more question.... Do you think regulated broker does not alter feed ?
1. Some trades are fill in house. Trader 1 with trader 2
2.Yes
3. Yes( He have spread. )
  • #21,303
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:42pm Sep 10, 2023 1:42pm
I really have no clue why it would take a one and a half hour video to explain something that is clearly laid out in plain english by the CFTC and under normal circumstances would take 2 minutes to explain. What is still unclear about this MFF issue and why this needs explaining by thousands of “gurus” on youtube, is beyond my comprehension. My Forex Funds has stated that you guys would be trading against a third party liquidity provider, which in turn means that the company should have had a vested interest in your trading success. But instead, they cut out the liquidity provider and acted as your virtual counterparty to make sure you get screwed because if they dont make money from trading, the collected fees is what they have to pay you from. They needed to avoid that at all costs, so they used software, fabricated KYC issues etcetc. That is fraud or is that still not clear? Why (almost all) of these shops stay silent, is that also so hard to understand? If you ever watched Kojak, one of the most famous lines is “ everything that you say can and will be used against you”. Almost all of the other companies have the same business model, a 1:1 MFF copy, period. Read thru the FTMO ToS. If you are not confused, you probably dont understand anything in the first place and if you are confused, you would never sign up with them in the first place, specially after the MFF Jeannie got out of the bottle. ToS are supposed to be transparent and easy to understand, unless you got something to hide. My Funded FX changed the wording from “ “Live Account” to “ Live Sim Account” after the CFTC charges against MFF went public. Does that really need a one and a half hour video to figure out whats going on? The discussion here is mainly about who to sign up with and who you can trust.Has anyone of you guys directly addressed these companies here on this forum and asked each CEO to make a crystal clear public statement of what their business model actually is and let them guarantee you publicly, that they do not engage in any fraudulent practices similar to what MFF engaged in? Why wouldnt they be able to do that if they aint got nothing to hide? Wouldnt they be happy to do that to generate lots of business after MFF disappeared? Did anyone ever contact them? If not, stop funding them.
  • #21,304
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:42pm Sep 10, 2023 1:42pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Got it in 1. Also, you can time the delay on their feed pretty freakin' easily. No broker operates without delays and slippage because its impossible to survive without it.
You speak about MFF. But is not a broker.
  • #21,305
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:45pm Sep 10, 2023 1:45pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} 1. Some trades are fill in house. Trader 1 with trader 2 2.Yes 3. Yes
May be you need more time you knoe how the so called regulated brokers work.
Intraday only.
  • #21,306
  • Sep 10, 2023 1:58pm Sep 10, 2023 1:58pm
Quoting SirMcPip
I really have no clue why it would take a one and a half hour video to explain something that is clearly laid out in plain english by the CFTC and under normal circumstances would take 2 minutes to explain. What is still unclear about this MFF issue and why this needs explaining by thousands of “gurus” on youtube, is beyond my comprehension. My Forex Funds has stated that you guys would be trading against a third party liquidity provider, which in turn means that the company should have had a vested interest in your trading success. But instead,...
You are mistaking a new conversation with one that has happened 1000x in the past.

We all knew what the model is before these times. We were comfortable with that, at least most of us appear to have been.

The unclear thing is how you can say fraud, and how you can say "intention to make people lose on STP" in the same sentence.

All this being said, if you don't like the business model, best not use it that part is simple. Right now, I am not using it because I do not know what comes next as changing terminology after the fact is not a cleaning of the slate and my experience with many of the currently popular prop firms has been far worse than MFF, FTMO and TFF. Even if people heap praise on companies changing their terms, we know the MFF case is from things that happened in the distant past and likely were not happening in the recent past. So changing terms won't do anything.
  • #21,307
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:12pm Sep 10, 2023 2:12pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} You are mistaking a new conversation with one that has happened 1000x in the past. We all knew what the model is before these times. We were comfortable with that, at least most of us appear to have been. The unclear thing is how you can say fraud, and how you can say "intention to make people lose on STP" in the same sentence. All this being said, if you don't like the business model, best not use it that part is simple. Right now, I am not using it because I do not know what comes next as changing terminology after the fact is not a cleaning...
I was referring to a video that was posted a few hours ago. And there is no need to make things artificially complicated. When i say fraud, i am referring to what the CFTC charged MFF with, these are not my words. But it should be clear that if proven, and these charges will be proven 1 by 1, these actions are crystal clear fraud. And when anyone says this is not a problem because we all know how the business operates, that might have been a valid argument before MFF. But now it is crystal clear that the income stream that kept these schemes going is interrupted, so things wont be business as usual. Even if people go on funding these companies, the governments wont sit idle by and let it happen. There will be changes coming and that most of these shops will potentially disappear in not all too long because of that would not surprise me.
  • #21,308
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:17pm Sep 10, 2023 2:17pm
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} I was referring to a video that was posted a few hours ago. And there is no need to make things artificially complicated. When i say fraud, i am referring to what the CFTC charged MFF with, these are not my words. But it should be clear that if proven, and these charges will be proven 1 by 1, these actions are crystal clear fraud. And when anyone says this is not a problem because we all know how the business operates, that might have been a valid argument before MFF. But now it is crystal clear that the income stream that kept these...
Are you tradernok?

Generally, this is not how justice works (in bold). Usually it works where you accuse someone of something, then they defend it and then a conclusion is reached.

Weren't you suggesting positive things about 5ers earlier as well?
  • #21,309
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:24pm Sep 10, 2023 2:24pm
This prop thing shows much similarities with gambling business.

Like: * they can only exist because of loosing customers. * They are trying to change odds against the player. In gambling odds are so determined so that company wins always. Props uses extra spreads, and some limiting rules to lower the chance of winning.

The only main difference is props are speaking of millions of trading money to attract new players. Which is totally false statement. Gambling industry doesn’t speak about winning. That is probably because of legislations.
  • #21,310
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:26pm Sep 10, 2023 2:26pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Are you tradernok? Generally, this is not how justice works (in bold). Usually it works where you accuse someone of something, then they defend it and then a conclusion is reached. Weren't you suggesting positive things about 5ers earlier as well?
The US Justice system will show us how justice works. They dont need your or my advice, you can count on that.I am not an uncompromising fan of government agencies either, but in this case, i fully believe, that the CFTC would never file charges of that caliber out of thin air if they didnt have all the evidence they need.. But you can believe whatever you want. Ultimately the court will decide.
  • #21,311
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:37pm Sep 10, 2023 2:37pm
Quoting SirMcPip
i fully believe, that the CFTC would never file charges of that caliber out of thin air if they didnt have all the evidence they need..
-Why not? The SEC does it. There is a strategy here.
  • #21,312
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:51pm Sep 10, 2023 2:51pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Why not? The SEC does it. There is a strategy here.
Allright, then explain the strategy. I dont personally know anthing about this strategy.
  • #21,313
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:56pm Sep 10, 2023 2:56pm
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote}i fully believe, that the CFTC would never file charges of that caliber out of thin air if they didnt have all the evidence they need.. But you can believe whatever you want. Ultimately the court will decide.
How anyone can be so much naive is beyond my comprehension. But one thing you said is right - you can believe whatever you want.
Btw, the court decision in this case is by no means a guarantee of justice or even the truth. The money will talk, as always.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #21,314
  • Sep 10, 2023 2:56pm Sep 10, 2023 2:56pm
Quoting Eren10
This prop thing shows much similarities with gambling business. Like: * they can only exist because of loosing customers. * They are trying to change odds against the player. In gambling odds are so determined so that company wins always. Props uses extra spreads, and some limiting rules to lower the chance of winning. The only main difference is props are speaking of millions of trading money to attract new players. Which is totally false statement. Gambling industry doesn’t speak about winning. That is probably because of legislations.
Thats how i see it, especially after the Jeannie got out of the bottle. Its now similar to the HYIP era around the mid 2000s.
  • #21,315
  • Sep 10, 2023 3:04pm Sep 10, 2023 3:04pm
Quoting SirMcPip
Allright, then explain the strategy. I dont personally know anthing about this strategy.
-You seem to have a pretty good understanding about things, based on your own comments, so I am confident that you can figure things out, so long that you can be objective.
  • #21,316
  • Sep 10, 2023 3:05pm Sep 10, 2023 3:05pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} How anyone can be so much naive is beyond my comprehension. But one thing you said is right - you can believe whatever you want. Btw, the court decision in this case is by no means a guarantee of justice or even the truth. The money will talk, as always.
I can appreciate that, my friend. Commercial interests are probably part of this whole thing but that dont mean automatically the charges are made up, they are not. Basic common sense dictates that.
  • #21,317
  • Sep 10, 2023 3:39pm Sep 10, 2023 3:39pm
Quoting navk
{quote} May be you need more time you knoe how the so called regulated brokers work.
May be you must to read about fine...Why do you think that USA have just.. 3-5 brokers...?
  • #21,318
  • Sep 10, 2023 3:47pm Sep 10, 2023 3:47pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You seem to have a pretty good understanding about things, based on your own comments, so I am confident that you can figure things out, so long that you can be objective.
Buddy, i dont have anymore understanding than anyone else, i am just trying to use a little common sense. A lot of FF bandwith is being used here for some never ending discussions. Instead, these companies should be invited to issue a public statement here on FF that they clearly do not engage in any actions that MFF has been charged with by the CFTC and they are truly in compliance with all US laws and the laws of all European Union Member states. Because if they dont, i am not sure how long this business model will survive. The rules that apply to MFF will apply to all of them very soon. Is there any reason why they wouldnt do it?
  • #21,319
  • Sep 10, 2023 3:49pm Sep 10, 2023 3:49pm
The real problem is there are TOO MANY BAD prop firms out there, that ruins reputation of the whole industry and give them a shady touch. Just look on this video...
Inserted Video
  • #21,320
  • Sep 10, 2023 4:06pm Sep 10, 2023 4:06pm
Quoting TrAndy1
The real problem is there are TOO MANY BAD prop firms out there, that ruins reputation of the whole industry and give them a shady touch. Just look on this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcC7HQt6PAQ
One thing that should be mentioned real quick is this. It is suggested, that firms in UAE are safe. Maybe they are, when looking at it from a perspective of not being reachable by US law. But... most companies in UAE are not set up by locals these days. Most are set up by foreign nationals and many of these companies are not supposed to last. At least that applies to some explicit industries.
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