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  • #21,201
  • Sep 8, 2023 11:42am Sep 8, 2023 11:42am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The guy has openly stated in the past they are "virtual" and now stating they are only A book. Originally their programs that were for that 7 years were absolutely positively built to make traders lose. Plenty of people will back me up on that, the old 5ers programs were nasty to say the least. As a prop firm on the evaluation model, they are new.
I don't take positions on 5ers as I'm pretty new with them but one thing is to have rules to make traders lose. That's legit, provided that rules are clear and known upfront. It's up to the trader to accept them or not (example: we all know that trailing stop is garbage but it's nothing shady to blame about if that is in the rules).

Another very different thing is to have subjective rules (like grid or so) which are not defined and allow them a wide scope to fail accounts.
Or, even worse, when they fake inconsistencies in KYC or violate based in IPs stuff or reverse trading without conclusive evidence (or without providing any evidence at all).

As far as I see 5ers may had programs in the past with horrible rules but the point is if they ever denied payments based in subjective stuff.
  • #21,202
  • Sep 8, 2023 11:43am Sep 8, 2023 11:43am
Quoting navk
Date 11 th september hearing is moved ?
I can say yes from what I have seen but lets let someone else say it to avoid more dramatic fighting in here. From memory its an extra 3 weeks or something.
  • #21,203
  • Sep 8, 2023 11:49am Sep 8, 2023 11:49am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The purpose of this 2M$ guy is to make the regulators fed up and to just blanket ban. The language he types in though is so much similar to rajabanks. I was reviewing both of their twitter accounts and it seems that at the very least they are culturally the same.
He posted a bit more today and, man, he is really an arsonist if he is doing what he says he is doing....
Such as this:
https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...68461060800899

https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...66830265102347

In the middle of all that sh* we also find some interesting things like this one from BeSpoke, the one that was receiving challenge money and doing payouts through an agent:
https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...73826091561200

Apparently those poor guys had their accounts violated because the agent did not delivered the money to Bespoke.
  • #21,204
  • Sep 8, 2023 11:50am Sep 8, 2023 11:50am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} He posted a bit more today and, man, he is really an arsonist if he is doing what he says he is doing.... Such as this: https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...68461060800899 https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...66830265102347 In the middle of all that sh* we also find some interesting things like this one from BeSpoke, the one that was receiving challenge money and doing payouts through an agent: https://twitter.com/TraderNOK/status...73826091561200 Apparently those poor guys had their accounts...
Yes.

And its one thing to be posting shit on the internet, its another to be setting fire to shit especially anonymously. Cowardly behavior at a minimum. Sounds like he is going after 3 UK firms, after seeing words of rizdom's latest videos, I hope that pompous clown is one of them.
  • #21,205
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:02pm Sep 8, 2023 12:02pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The guy has openly stated in the past they are "virtual" and now stating they are only A book. Originally their programs that were for that 7 years were absolutely positively built to make traders lose. Plenty of people will back me up on that, the old 5ers programs were nasty to say the least. As a prop firm on the evaluation model, they are new.
Ok, good to know. I couldnt find any statement where he stated that their live accounts were all virtual but i also cant prove that he didnt. Maybe you can tell me where i can find the evidence where he said that. So lets assume back then he said that. At least he admitted it publicly, so no problem. Last week Gil Ben Hur stated publicly that its all A book now. So far i hadnt heard any other CEO say that, although before MFF hit the fan, all others either said it or at least advertised it, although the wording in their ToS said otherwise. So i hardly think the 5ers can be any worse than everyone else. But that is just my logic.
By the way, I am actually not bashing the business model, its actually quiet ok if everything is transparent and everyone knows whats going on. But looking at all these new prop firms that pop up you can already figure out that something is fishy before the lasagna even gets close to the fan.
  • #21,206
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:08pm Sep 8, 2023 12:08pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I can say yes from what I have seen but lets let someone else say it to avoid more dramatic fighting in here. From memory its an extra 3 weeks or something.
So far the only thing I found in public records was the move of the hearing to Sep 13th to request extension of precautious measures
https://www.capitalmarketstribunal.c...obal-group.pdf

Quote
HEARING DATE AND TIME: September 13, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. LOCATION: By videoconference PURPOSE The purpose of this proceeding is to consider whether the Capital Markets Tribunal should grant the Application filed by Staff of the Commission to extend the temporary order issued by the Ontario Securities Commission on August 29, 2023.

I guess on that hearing CFTC will request an extension of the case hearing so it seems to me that this won't have anything new next week.
Far from that. It will probably be postponed for some more time (weeks ?) as Takisd said.

Let the industry boil some more time...
  • #21,207
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:17pm Sep 8, 2023 12:17pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} So far the only thing I found in public records was the move of the hearing to Sep 13th to request extension of precautious measures https://www.capitalmarketstribunal.c...obal-group.pdf {quote} I guess on that hearing CFTC will request an extension of the case hearing so it seems to me that this won't have anything new next week. Far from that. It will probably be postponed for some more time (weeks ?) as Takisd said. Let the industry boil some more time...
I think it’s like an anti bullying startegy. Cftc tried to bully and got pushed back
  • #21,208
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:31pm Sep 8, 2023 12:31pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} So far the only thing I found in public records was the move of the hearing to Sep 13th to request extension of precautious measures https://www.capitalmarketstribunal.c...obal-group.pdf {quote} I guess on that hearing CFTC will request an extension of the case hearing so it seems to me that this won't have anything new next week. Far from that. It will probably be postponed for some more time (weeks ?) as Takisd said. Let the industry boil some more time...
Correct me if i am wrong, i am probably missing something again. The September 11th hearing is the one scheduled in US court and the 13th hearing is the one originally scheduled in Canada. I dont see where the Sept. 13th hearing is an extension of anything. The extension is about the extension of the asset freeze in Canada. Is there maybe something else out there?
  • #21,209
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:40pm Sep 8, 2023 12:40pm
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Correct me if i am wrong, i am probably missing something again. The September 11th hearing is the one scheduled in US court and the 13th hearing is the one originally scheduled in Canada. I dont see where the Sept. 13th hearing is an extension of anything. The extension is about the extension of the asset freeze in Canada. Is there maybe something else out there?
Hummm, I thought the one of 11th was in Ontario. You may be right, then.
  • #21,210
  • Sep 8, 2023 12:50pm Sep 8, 2023 12:50pm
Quoting Capablanca
Your split is up to 80% of all simulated profits made on your live sim account after each trading period of 14 calendar days." I like the "live sim" account. Before that is "demo sim" account ?
-I guess we can pay the challenge fee with simulated funds, then?
  • #21,211
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:08pm Sep 8, 2023 1:08pm
Quoting TraderTero
MattL I CEO Yesterday at 3:22 PM
@everyone over the past week we have thoroughly reviewed our business operations with CFTC and regulatory counsel inside and out.
We are fully confident we are in compliance with all local federal and regulatory laws for North American and international jurisdictions.
We have also reviewed our prior precautionary measure to prohibit new sign ups from Canada and have determined this measure is not necessary in any regard. Effectively immediately this temporary restriction has been lifted.
We will continue to work...
-I would assume that new signups are decreasing or becoming stagnant at most firms, hence the various discount-incentives and reassuring public statements etc.. I would bet money that many prop CEO's are quite nervous in private, though. They would be foolish to not be, I think.
  • #21,212
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:16pm Sep 8, 2023 1:16pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I guess we can pay the challenge fee with simulated funds, then?
Well, in FTMO you could as they had the option of exchanging the payout for new challenges.
  • #21,213
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:18pm Sep 8, 2023 1:18pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I would assume that new signups are decreasing or becoming stagnant at most firms, hence the various discount-incentives and reassuring public statements etc.. I would bet money that many prop CEO's are quite nervous in private, though. They would be foolish to not be, I think.
Absolutely. They have 2 worries at the same time: survival of the business and uncertainty if they will be the next one to be hit with a legal case.

Besides, in public all is good but then some of they rushed, during the weekend, to change their programes description to simulated stuff and so on.
  • #21,214
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:25pm Sep 8, 2023 1:25pm
Quoting Capablanca
some of they rushed, during the weekend, to change their programes description to simulated stuff and so on.
-Which seems very questionable and disconcerting. I cannot possibly fathom that these firms would be operating without proper legal counsel, but moves like this make me question it.
  • #21,215
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:28pm Sep 8, 2023 1:28pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I would assume that new signups are decreasing or becoming stagnant at most firms, hence the various discount-incentives and reassuring public statements etc.. I would bet money that many prop CEO's are quite nervous in private, though. They would be foolish to not be, I think.
The writing is on the wall. I think we will see a few other notices on websites still within 2023. Rather sooner than later if European Authorities decide to set a MFF style example.
  • #21,216
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:32pm Sep 8, 2023 1:32pm
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} The writing is on the wall. I think we will see a few other notices on websites still within 2023. Rather sooner than later if European Authorities decide to set a MFF style example.
Let's hope that Europe (EU) suffers from the usual slowness to do anything. I'm more concerned about UK.
  • #21,217
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:33pm Sep 8, 2023 1:33pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: countries.jpg Size: 128 KB


USA, Canada, European Union and UK account for pretty much everything in the prop world.
  • #21,218
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:39pm Sep 8, 2023 1:39pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Let's hope that Europe (EU) suffers from the usual slowness to do anything. I'm more concerned about UK.
In Uk, they already shut down blufx as far as i know. When US citizens are involved, things might move at least a bit faster. Usually things swap over to Europe. I think in this case the potential target of main interest is on the mainland.
  • #21,219
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:45pm Sep 8, 2023 1:45pm
Quoting Capablanca
{image} USA, Canada, European Union and UK account for pretty much everything in the prop world.
That map will look very much different soon as most will be located off shore.
  • #21,220
  • Sep 8, 2023 1:46pm Sep 8, 2023 1:46pm
Quoting SirMcPip
The writing is on the wall. I think we will see a few other notices on websites still within 2023. Rather sooner than later if European Authorities decide to set a MFF style example.
-It's difficult to say whether or not the SEC charges against SurgeTrader led, in any way, to MFF's investigation, but whatever outcome that we see with MFF will likely set the tone and pave the way for other firms, good or bad.
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