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  • #20,781
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:22pm Sep 5, 2023 3:22pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Apex trading has no live accounts, It's a simulated trading video game just like the forex prop side. However, after the MFF takedown the Futures props seem to have no fear of the CFTC bringing the hammer down on them... Futures props are promoting US controlled exchange markets not competition the CFTC/NFA/CME/CBOT/COMEX/ICE/NYMEX don't control or make money from. It's the sole reason CFDs are banned in the United Sates in the 1st place.
I don't agree with this, there is no way to mitigate all risk with simply b-booking futures flow. If anything, its easier to monetize via PFOF on limits.
  • #20,782
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:23pm Sep 5, 2023 3:23pm
Quoting Expo33
I might purchase a 5K one-step from Maven for $29 just so CEO Hunter boy can afford some hair gel. {image}
Be sure to sign up for Andrew Tates new book so you fit in.
  • #20,783
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:33pm Sep 5, 2023 3:33pm
Quoting Takisd
Can't believe I sat through the 5ers ceo interview. Yikes.

I bailed halfway through. Couldn't take anymore.
  • #20,784
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:43pm Sep 5, 2023 3:43pm
I suspect that it may be easy for some to read this thread and simply believe that many here hate the US government and are against regulation in all forms. I do not necessarily agree with this. But we do recognize that there are things in this country that seriously need to change.

Compliance has become too burdensome and risky for some businesses to even consider, so US residents are often treated like pariah and heavily limited in terms of where and how they can invest their own money. Regulators have become bullies; regulation by enforcement. They are not here to help or to educate.

Even basic record-keeping, if not done in accordance with the requirements set forth by various regulatory groups (which may often be revised and need constant revisiting), can cost a business 10's of millions of dollars or more.

This has forced many pioneering enterprises, innovation and potential revenue overseas, especially in the crypto space. This is a problem. What's worse is the fact that there seem to be obvious conflicts of interests and hidden agendas at work. All-too-often, we see efforts that are seemingly designed intentionally, to keep the poor poorer and the rich richer.

We see efforts of control, greed and corruption at every turn. Those that do not self-educate are often oblivious, which only helps to perpetuate these problems. The system is broken and rigged and has been designed in such a way with great intention, where decisions that affect the majority are often made by a small minority of people that can be easily bought and paid for and/or controlled.

Leaders, elected officials, entire government etc. no longer serve the people that they are supposed to represent. These groups operate on self-serving interests that can take on various forms, involving a number of different groups that have little-to-no concern for the interests and well-being of the American people.

So while I see and sometimes hate what my government has become, I do see what it can be and hold on to hope that things can and will be better. Until that time, I maintain the idea that if I do not say anything, then I can expect that nothing will change.
  • #20,785
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:47pm Sep 5, 2023 3:47pm
i know it is prop threat but I kindly ask again any mt4/5 retail broker (except Icmarkets, Vantage FX) with 1:100 leverage for CFDs (indeces) for UK trader. I know I can go thru forex factory forum but I really appreciate advice from pro traders who proven trading real money and withdrawals...
  • #20,786
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:50pm Sep 5, 2023 3:50pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Apex trading has no live accounts, It's a simulated trading video game just like the forex prop side. However, after the MFF takedown the Futures props seem to have no fear of the CFTC bringing the hammer down on them... Futures props are promoting US controlled exchange markets not competition the CFTC/NFA/CME/CBOT/COMEX/ICE/NYMEX don't control or make money from. It's the sole reason CFDs are banned in the United Sates in the 1st place.
Exactly, they claim legitimacy by using regulated futures platforms/exchanges, with worse conditions and objectives found on the CFD side. Apex doesn't look too bad, others are complete dogshit.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #20,787
  • Edited 4:05pm Sep 5, 2023 3:55pm | Edited 4:05pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You may lose your money. YES/NO ? Are you sure ? YES/NO ? Are you dam sure ? YES/NO ? This is your last chance to give up. Are you fck*ing sure ? YES/NO ? These 4 sequential question would be enough to replace the entire regulation worldwide
No denying you knew. But then what would the regulatory agencies have to do with themselves all day......hey I know, we could save all kinds of taxpayer $$$$ and simply abolish them.
That's the real irony, the money I pay in taxes funds these agencies so they can protect, er, screw me. System is working perfectly.
  • #20,788
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:01pm Sep 5, 2023 4:01pm
Quoting Nsak3y
I suspect that it may be easy for some to read this thread and simply believe that many here hate the US government and are against regulation in all forms. I do not necessarily agree with this. But we do recognize that there are things in this country that seriously need to change. Compliance has become too burdensome and risky for some businesses to even consider, so US residents are often treated like pariah and heavily limited in terms of where and how they can invest their own money. Regulators have become bullies; regulation by enforcement....
Exactly what I have been saying. Yet people look at us like we have a tinfoil hat. It blows my mind that anyone with even average intelligence cannot see exactly what you have just stated in much better context than I do. They simply believe everything they are told by the governemnt and the media (also bought and paid for).
  • #20,789
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:04pm Sep 5, 2023 4:04pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Apex trading has no live accounts, It's a simulated trading video game just like the forex prop side. However, after the MFF takedown the Futures props seem to have no fear of the CFTC bringing the hammer down on them... Futures props are promoting US controlled exchange markets not competition the CFTC/NFA/CME/CBOT/COMEX/ICE/NYMEX don't control or make money from. It's the sole reason CFDs are banned in the United Sates in the 1st place.
If it's simulated, then there is no money going to any exchange. How is it not the same as the forex props?
  • #20,790
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:09pm Sep 5, 2023 4:09pm
Quoting pipmaster77
But then what would the regulatory agencies have to do with themselves all day......hey I know, we could save all kinds of taxpayer $$$$ and simply abolish them.
-It is kind of insane when you think about it. We already have groups that enforce the law. If you steal from people, for example, you get into trouble, and rightfully so.

But with regulation, the law can be anything that they decide, no matter how mundane or trivial. It reminds me of a hall-pass monitor or a security guard on a power-trip, except with regulators, they can actually enforce their nonsense.
  • #20,791
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:18pm Sep 5, 2023 4:18pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-It is kind of insane when you think about it. We already have groups that enforce the law. If you steal from people, for example, you get into trouble, and rightfully so.

Not necesarily, depends on where you live. In certain parts of this country, it's encouraged. They don't enforce the laws on the books, yet want more laws. They don't punish the crime, they release so they can commit the same crime or worse again.

But with regulation, the law can be anything that they decide, no matter how mundane or trivial. It reminds me of...
and created by folks who have little knowledge of what they are regulating.
  • #20,792
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:34pm Sep 5, 2023 4:34pm
Sure. Sure. There are agendas. We have many problems here. I always tell people that no matter where you live, there will be pros and cons; no place is perfect.
  • #20,793
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:34pm Sep 5, 2023 4:34pm
It is a fantastic trick how some individuals aka self appointed CEO's have been able to divert perfectly good traders with amazing skills to make 10%'s overnight and make them dependent on their flimsy companies.

No one is even bothering considering trading their own money with freedom and pretty much anything they want to do without the imposed restrictions by props.
Yes I know US traders have an issue with FIFO but there are FIFO compliant EA's or strategies and I'm sure there are many traders that trade successfully using them. 1:30 leverage is also no big deal.

Yes I know they want large sums and higher leverage but there is a price to pay for all that namingly losing many challenge fees and even being locked out.

There is still (and no one making you before you cry fowl at me) to trade and make money if all the props disappeared.
  • #20,794
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:40pm Sep 5, 2023 4:40pm
Quoting OutThere
No one is even bothering considering trading their own money with freedom and pretty much anything they want to do without the imposed restrictions by props.
-Personal accounts/investments should be a priority. Props can serve as a great tool when used properly.
  • #20,795
  • Sep 5, 2023 4:41pm Sep 5, 2023 4:41pm
Quoting OutThere
It is a fantastic trick how some individuals aka self appointed CEO's have been able to divert perfectly good traders with amazing skills to make 10%'s overnight and make them dependent on their flimsy companies. No one is even bothering considering trading their own money with freedom and pretty much anything they want to do without the imposed restrictions by props. Yes I know US traders have an issue with FIFO but there are FIFO compliant EA's or strategies and I'm sure there are many traders that trade successfully using them. 1:30 leverage...
Traders not trading their own capital comes from 2 elements in my opinion. 1) They dont have capital and 2) they truly dont believe they will be profitable long term despite not having the ability to admit it.

I am not profitable long term on any size worth noting, I play those odds. On my larger accounts I trade small and just to eat. They last in time, but the return isnt great.

Perhaps this is a learning moment where people finally accept the fact that in trading, they are almost statistically certain to lose.
  • #20,796
  • Sep 5, 2023 5:08pm Sep 5, 2023 5:08pm
Quoting OutThere
It is a fantastic trick how some individuals aka self appointed CEO's have been able to divert perfectly good traders with amazing skills to make 10%'s overnight and make them dependent on their flimsy companies. No one is even bothering considering trading their own money with freedom and pretty much anything they want to do without the imposed restrictions by props. Yes I know US traders have an issue with FIFO but there are FIFO compliant EA's or strategies and I'm sure there are many traders that trade successfully using them. 1:30 leverage...
the reason is what we saw in the CFTC docs.... they will lose on a stp feed with real market depth slippage.
  • #20,797
  • Sep 5, 2023 5:38pm Sep 5, 2023 5:38pm
Quoting OutThere
It is a fantastic trick how some individuals aka self appointed CEO's have been able to divert perfectly good traders with amazing skills to make 10%'s overnight and make them dependent on their flimsy companies. No one is even bothering considering trading their own money with freedom and pretty much anything they want to do without the imposed restrictions by props. Yes I know US traders have an issue with FIFO but there are FIFO compliant EA's or strategies and I'm sure there are many traders that trade successfully using them. 1:30 leverage...
It's not just FIFO, anyone can work around that and I don't use anywhere near 1:30. The deal is this I can put $500 in a perosnal account or I can pass a challenge and have $10-12K.....so literally I can trade 20-24 x the size, therefore resulting in 20-24 times the profit.....well let's call it 15x after the split.
After fee refund with first split, I now have zero risk, not a single penny. How is this not better than trading a personal account?
The rules and limitations you speak of I'm assuming are related to DD....I've already factored that in when I say I have 10-12K as I can lose 100% of that.
News...doesn't exist at MFF or FTMO swing....but then you say oh but FTMO cuts you to 1:30 which you just stated is MORE than enough and actually it's 1:30 on the equity(100K) so in reality it's 1:300 on the max loss (10K). Most all firms do not have news restriction and there are plenty to choose from.
Every one is unlimited, so there is not ime presuure any longer...take as long as you want, pass as quick as you wish.
Even if you have a 7 figure personal account, I just cannot see how props are not more adventageous....there is literally no downside and 15x the upside.
What are YOU missing here?
  • #20,798
  • Sep 5, 2023 5:41pm Sep 5, 2023 5:41pm
@TraderNOK on X has good insights on this situation
  • #20,799
  • Sep 5, 2023 5:52pm Sep 5, 2023 5:52pm
Props have their place, and can serve as a useful tool, especially for those that are trying to accumulate capital or fund their personal accounts. I think that it is relative, depending on one's goals and circumstances, but I personally give priority to my personal accounts. I see no reason why you cannot utilize both, however.
  • #20,800
  • Sep 5, 2023 7:25pm Sep 5, 2023 7:25pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It's not just FIFO, anyone can work around that and I don't use anywhere near 1:30. The deal is this I can put $500 in a perosnal account or I can pass a challenge and have $10-12K.....so literally I can trade 20-24 x the size, therefore resulting in 20-24 times the profit.....well let's call it 15x after the split. After fee refund with first split, I now have zero risk, not a single penny. How is this not better than trading a personal account? The rules and limitations you speak of I'm assuming are related to DD....I've already factored...
You and others have explained that many times, however, your explanation is a little dated considering the new developments. I don't see anywhere in your comments above that there is a danger of losing not only your $500, but also what you have earned on that up to date. In addition, you have probably worked out this trading for prop thing into your life. Pretty inconvenient if at any moment you have to start looking for a job or trade your own money.

I don't know where you are doing your challenges but my 100K ones give me only 5K to play with, not 10-12 K. There are traders here that make 8K with that 5K playing money overnight. I guess a 5k investment overnight can become 8+5=13K. It is like 250K challenge account for them...overnight. So all this hassle with props cause our genius traders don't have 5K in their pockets.

Also, it would be rare if someone invested only $500 and passed and started making big profit to the point of making 50K/year which is nowadays only enough for 1 person.
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