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  • #20,541
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:14am Sep 4, 2023 10:14am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Oh no. You are mixing things. If you give money then trader needs to be licensed or you. Point.
Are you familiar with Darwinex? At Darwinex you can invest in other traders without licences and Darwinex is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK. Everyone can be a trader and/or investor at Darwinex without licences.
  • #20,542
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:16am Sep 4, 2023 10:16am
Quoting Dmh
{quote} Are you familiar with Darwinex? At Darwinex you can invest in other traders without licences and Darwinex is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK. Everyone can be a trader and/or investor at Darwinex without licences.
Not 100% sure. It is grey area as I know. So Bafin in Germany is patient here. But I do not know actual opinion. The thing is that Darwinex is regulated itself. You cannot say this from most/all such prop firms. As I know Zulu requires you to have an own license as financial advisor, so that you are personally regulated. That is why I think on Darwinex it is the same case but I am not really sure. I am not a lawyer and do not know all the details. But before you go there you must know this before.
  • #20,543
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:25am Sep 4, 2023 10:25am
Quoting Tovip
{quote} I actually screenshoted the response from the live chat staff a few days ago 'cause I can never trust prop firms 100% haha Especially when fxify doesn't list out their scale up plan on their website black and white. Anyway here's the screenshot. I am really tempted to add fxify on my list since a few people here showed they got an actual payout from them and short waiting time. But with their too-good-to-be-true scale up plan, I wonder if they can still make a profit while delivering big payouts on time, especially after the MFF thing...some...
Thanks for the screenshot. I also saved it.

I have 2 funded accounts and received 2 payouts in one and 1 payout in another. So refund in both, therefore I'm freeriding them now.

Regarding big payouts, this morning I received an email from them with a list of 5 highest payout of this month, which I assume are from August because September only started on Friday. If this is right, then they didn't have really huge payouts to be paid. And we're talking about top5.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: August top5 FXIFY.PNG Size: 43 KB
  • #20,544
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:26am Sep 4, 2023 10:26am
Quoting 1odi
{quote} true, so if there aren t any real investors, cos i recall the CEO saying he put up his own money to start the bussiness, traders aren t investors either, how can they build their case other then marked up spreads? which would be settle with a fine i think?
I dont think there will be a settlement because of the release pre court. There is a reputational damage that has to be fixed if there is a settlement and it would require full retraction and vindication. But if you are doing that, why are you fining someone? You can't just go around calling someone a fraud and ruining someones life on false pretenses. Some folks in here who hate the US gov probably would say they are not surprised but having been involved in stuff like this when dodd frank came out I can say that its highly unusual behavior and it seems strangely personal.

It will become fairly interesting from tomorrow because US is open for business. If it wasn't the CFTC I would say that MFF would win this case but its the CFTC and they really hate being wrong.
  • #20,545
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:29am Sep 4, 2023 10:29am
1) Investor is the trader as challenge fee taker. There are no outside investors except those traders who buy a challenge from prop. That is all the money involved here.

2) With all the pooled money from Investors or Traders here the prop firm is paying out from them and also to a VERY small part also STP so A-booking so they their investors money to play this STP thing. So usually you would need a kind of license if there is real money from the Investors/Traders involved. It could be gambling license or similar. I am not sure if the CFTC as financial regulator is the right body to speak here. But it looks like that they are doing financial sector activities, as the main activity is trading on a simulated environment.

So the conclusion is, that a kind of license or regulation is required because MFF took so much Investors/Traders real money here over $300 million, you cannot do this fully unlicensed and unregulated. That cannot be. So maybe MFF can come out with a blue eye.
  • #20,546
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:32am Sep 4, 2023 10:32am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I have had it already since this is not my first funded with them. Still waiting regardless
Even for the second account they need to send Deel contract.

The second one took me about 3 business days to receive contract in Deel and another 2 to receive credentials by email. And that's because I contacted them asking what was going on. They don't seem very fast now sending contracts and funding credentials. Maybe too much growth in the last months....

On the payout, on the other hand, they were very fast. I already said that I had the fastest payout ever (1 hour and 11 or 13 minutes, can't remember) and on Friday I got it in 5h30m, which is not bad because it was already afternoon in London when I asked for it.
  • #20,547
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:34am Sep 4, 2023 10:34am
Just ask yourself where in the world you can take $300 million as money from anyone without any required license or regulation to do so ? Nowhere, maybe very offshore not. So all props are affected on this. It will take some time maybe until EU and other areas will do something, but sooner or later for sure.
  • #20,548
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:34am Sep 4, 2023 10:34am
Quoting TrAndy1
1) Investor is the trader as challenge fee taker. There are no outside investors except those traders who buy a challenge from prop. That is all the money involved here. 2) With all the pooled money from Investors or Traders here the prop firm is paying out from them and also to a VERY small part also STP so A-booking so they their investors money to play this STP thing. So usually you would need a kind of license if there is real money from the Investors/Traders involved. It could be gambling license or similar. I am not sure if the CFTC as financial...
But it was disclosed before they purchased a program that they are purchasing a program and not investing. Sooooooooo your entire premise is wrong.

They did not act as a custodian, nor did the users money get held. Once you paid that money, it became the companies, permanently. They then took their revenue and used it to pay contractors.

If the money "belonged" to the trader, then maybe you could make the case you are making, but never did a cent belong to anyone other than the prop firm even if profits were accrued.

You also highlight the amount of money, which suggests a bias. Because whether its $1 or 1 billion, the rules should be uniform.
  • #20,549
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:34am Sep 4, 2023 10:34am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Even for the second account they need to send Deel contract. The second one took me about 3 business days to receive contract in Deel and another 2 to receive credentials by email. And that's because I contacted them asking what was going on. They don't seem very fast now sending contracts and funding credentials. Maybe too much growth in the last months.... On the payout, on the other hand, they were very fast. I already said that I had the fastest payout ever (1 hour and 11 or 13 minutes, can't remember) and on Friday I got it in 5h30m,...
I see, thanks for the info!
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,550
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:38am Sep 4, 2023 10:38am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Even for the second account they need to send Deel contract. The second one took me about 3 business days to receive contract in Deel and another 2 to receive credentials by email. And that's because I contacted them asking what was going on. They don't seem very fast now sending contracts and funding credentials. Maybe too much growth in the last months.... On the payout, on the other hand, they were very fast. I already said that I had the fastest payout ever (1 hour and 11 or 13 minutes, can't remember) and on Friday I got it in 5h30m,...
This gives me confidence

Intraday only.
  • #20,551
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:38am Sep 4, 2023 10:38am
I do not think so. MFF T&C does not count here. Traders paid for a program, in reality they were like Investors who tried to make a profit with a payout after the evaluation. It looks like they are investors because it could be also on FX brokerage where you get extended leverage if they meet some criteria. I do not think that MFF their terms and conditions does count here really. That is the point from CFTC. I just try to understand them. On MFF side I do understand them, but in case the win rate is over 90% with the CFTC I must emphasize the CFTC position or perspective.

I mean the CFTC said Investors, so you cannot say they are no investors at all. Of course you can try at court, but I do not think that is all easiy go for MFF. Otherwise the CFTC were completely wrong. God knows. But I do not think so, as they are usually always the winner. So we will see some regulation or license to be needed.
  • #20,552
  • Edited 11:16am Sep 4, 2023 10:40am | Edited 11:16am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} But it was disclosed before they purchased a program that they are purchasing a program and not investing. Sooooooooo your entire premise is wrong. They did not act as a custodian, nor did the users money get held. Once you paid that money, it became the companies, permanently. They then took their revenue and used it to pay contractors. If the money "belonged" to the trader, then maybe you could make the case you are making, but never did a cent belong to anyone other than the prop firm even if profits were accrued. You also highlight the...
I does appear the CFTC is trying to stuff a round peg into a square hole. The more I read the complaint, the more I see things that do not seem applicable.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #20,553
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:41am Sep 4, 2023 10:41am
Quoting TrAndy1
I do not think so. MFF T&C does not count here. Traders paid for a program, in reality they were like Investors who tried to make a profit with a payout after the evaluation. It looks like they are investors because it could be also on FX brokerage where you get extended leverage if they meet some criteria. I do not think that MFF their terms and conditions does count here really. That is the point from CFTC. I just try to understand them. On MFF side I do understand them, but in case the win rate is over 90% with the CFTC I must emphasize the CFTC...
I think you are conflating multiple things. Because if you believe it then all prop firms are properly screwed and the end is already here.
  • #20,554
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:41am Sep 4, 2023 10:41am
Quoting Capablanca
Received from Finotive: How Finotive Operates Dear xxxxx In light of the recent CFTC involvement in the Retail Prop Firm industry, we have compiled the following FAQs to be fully transparent with our community about how Finotive Funding has and will continue to operate. Hopefully these clarifications will not only show how we have and always will be fully transparent, but will also help you understand what goes on behind the scenes at a reputable prop firm. 1. Is Finotive Funding regulated? -No, because there is no regulation required to run a retail...
do you trust finovative? do they have any major scandals or known issues?
  • #20,555
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:43am Sep 4, 2023 10:43am
Why does not 8cap as FX broker who has regulations steps in, and does directly that prop firm business ?

Reason, they fear regulation and a kind of license to be needed which is not included in their actual brokerage license. Otherwise all brokers could copy prop firm their business model. But this did not happen for a reason until now.

The prop firm should take the legal risk to do so. The brokers only have done the b-booking part and datafeed part mainly.
  • #20,556
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:45am Sep 4, 2023 10:45am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} The mod in Discord said to me it is allowed AND that he personally is successful with Tick Scalping on their own challenge (or datafeed). What a contradiction and then I left them forever (being banned). Funny!
Another observation - I learnt they do monitor IP addresses and device IDs (well all most likely do but their mod confirmed it without hesitation on Discord while other companies try to hide this info) they also allow and support trade copying, but they have no idea about what Duplikium is.
I explained it briefly emphasizing on the fact the it makes a mess in IPs and device IDs in the trading log which they may incorrectly interpret as attempted fraud. Their response was that they would investigate carefully and when no rules are violated I'm safe. So I asked how exactly they distinguish usage of Duplikium from the fraud but nobody was able to tell me. They only kept assure me that if I don't cheat I'm safe.

I start to worry that they might become Funded Next v2 for me (refused large payment for a fraud accusation while I only used Duplikium which they allow in their rules)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,557
  • Edited 11:16am Sep 4, 2023 10:45am | Edited 11:16am
Quoting TrAndy1
I do not think so. MFF T&C does not count here. Traders paid for a program, in reality they were like Investors who tried to make a profit with a payout after the evaluation. It looks like they are investors because it could be also on FX brokerage where you get extended leverage if they meet some criteria. I do not think that MFF their terms and conditions does count here really. That is the point from CFTC. I just try to understand them. On MFF side I do understand them, but in case the win rate is over 90% with the CFTC I must emphasize the CFTC...
I think the CFTC interpretation of regulation would negate any prop firm structure. Its an argument that has to pushed back on. They want a prop firm to follow the same rules a retail brokerage would. It could be argued its an apples and oranges comparison.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #20,558
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:45am Sep 4, 2023 10:45am
Quoting navk
{quote} FXIFY is UK based. Not to worry at this time. It may take time to affect.
Hopefully they take the same step as Blue Guardian and go off shore.
  • #20,559
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:46am Sep 4, 2023 10:46am
Quoting TrAndy1
Why does not 8cap as FX broker who has regulations steps in, and does directly that prop firm business ? Reason, they fear regulation and a kind of license to be needed which is not included in their actual brokerage license. Otherwise all brokers could copy prop firm their business model. But this did not happen for a reason until now. The prop firm should take the legal risk to do so. The brokers only have done the b-booking part and datafeed part mainly.
They can't accept US residents.
  • #20,560
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:46am Sep 4, 2023 10:46am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I think you are conflating multiple things. Because if you believe it then all prop firms are properly screwed and the end is already here.
Think it is, at least in the US. Who's lobbied CFTC? All the $100 fee losers or all the "brokers" losing clients... they have a history of this BS. Just follow the money....
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