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  • #20,061
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:40pm Sep 2, 2023 12:40pm
Quoting Capablanca
I gave already an example why context matters. What was the profit, what was the trading style (volume, frequency), if that was one, two or hundred trades, etc. This in a different way: do you think a customer with 50 USD profit and zero losses would raise special attention to them ? It's the same zero losses situation.
-I am not saying that context does not matter. I am saying that we have already the context. We have the conversation. There was no mention of lot size or frequency. There was only the mention of zero losses. The decision was still made, based on that fact, alone, to put the trader on an aggressive profile.
  • #20,062
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:45pm Sep 2, 2023 12:45pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I am not saying that context does not matter. I am saying that we have already the context. We have the conversation. There was no mention of lot size or frequency. There was only the mention of zero losses. The decision was still made, based on that fact, alone, to put the trader on an aggressive profile.
Correct, this is a fact, no need to dispute.

What I'm judging is if that decision was wrongdoing or not. I can't judge that without more information (context).

Conversation is not the context. If they tell me that this was a guy trading 10 times a day, 40 lots each and was lucky during a whole week (unlikely but anyway), don't you think he should be put in more real conditions (worse) than someone that the guy who is trading 1 lot per day ?
This is what I mean by context.
  • #20,063
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:47pm Sep 2, 2023 12:47pm
Quoting Capablanca
This in a different way: do you think a customer with 50 USD profit and zero losses would raise special attention to them ? It's the same zero losses situation.
-If they are willing to pad the spreads on their A-book traders for some extra profit, which seems really unnecessary to me, then putting a zero-loss trader on an aggressive profile in order to mitigate potential losses does not seem that far-fetched to me, especially given the fact that the software is all automated and would do all of the work for them.
  • #20,064
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:50pm Sep 2, 2023 12:50pm
Quoting Capablanca
What I'm judging is if that decision was wrongdoing or not. I can't judge that without more information (context). Conversation is not the context.
-All we have is the conversation. That is all that we can go by. Along with all of the other conversations that lead me to believe that they would throw any and all traders under a bus, even if those traders could produce positive results for them in real-market conditions. The model was so successful for them, that they didn't even need to worry about ensuring that their good traders remained profitable, and were even stealing extra profits from them just because they could.
  • #20,065
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:51pm Sep 2, 2023 12:51pm
How much will be the fine ?

Let us calculate a little bit. It was said that comms generated already $7 million, with slippages and delaying maybe in addition triple of that on top. So in total the fine could be minimum $30 million. But what is then about the illegal "Ponzi" and the CFDs trading on a non regulated brokerage with all the false promises. Difficult for me to find a value for the magnitude of a fine here. Anybody else ?

I think the slip cannot be more than 1 full pip, based on my experience with them even on bigger lot orders. So they can triple that from the $3 comms which is $7 million in value. That is how I calculated that minimum $30 million fine because of unfair trading execution, in the way how the CFTC is seeing it. I see it of course different, as that kind of slip and comms I experienced at MFF was good. But hey... (i am not the judge)
  • #20,066
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:54pm Sep 2, 2023 12:54pm
Wait... is this new wording for eval/live accounts?!?!?!?

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  • #20,067
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:57pm Sep 2, 2023 12:57pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Correct, this is a fact, no need to dispute. What I'm judging is if that decision was wrongdoing or not. I can't judge that without more information (context). Conversation is not the context. If they tell me that this was a guy trading 10 times a day, 40 lots each and was lucky during a whole week (unlikely but anyway), don't you think he should be put in more real conditions (worse) than someone that the guy who is trading 1 lot per day ? This is what I mean by context.
I think if the guy is supposedly batting for your own team you want him to have the most favourable conditions possible. Remember the strap line "If you win, we win". You don't make it more difficult for him. I know at least 3 brokers that between London and NY open you can get absolutely instant fill on 30 lots and often zero or tiny spread 0.1/0.2 on EU/GU and very rare to be slipped unless market moving particularly fast but that can also give a bit of positive slippage too.

I will have to read the rap sheet again but I do not recall reading that they actually trade any of their own funds, whether that be the CEO himself or an appointee.
  • #20,068
  • Sep 2, 2023 12:59pm Sep 2, 2023 12:59pm
Quoting TrAndy1
How much will be the fine ? Let us calculate a little bit. It was said that comms generated already $7 million, with slippages and delaying maybe in addition triple of that on top. So in total the fine could be minimum $30 million. But what is then about the illegal "Ponzi" and the CFDs trading on a non regulated brokerage with all the false promises. Difficult for me to find a value for the magnitude of a fine here. Anybody else ? I think the slip cannot be more than 1 full pip, based on my experience with them even on bigger lot orders. So they...
7M is the fake commissions. But it's way more.
The penalty will be probably a % over the 300M revenue, which usually is the case. They may have to calculate how much was the net profit (revenue - payouts - operational costs).
  • #20,069
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:00pm Sep 2, 2023 1:00pm
Quoting CableJ
Wait... is this new wording for eval/live accounts?!?!?!? {image}
Isn't that the usual monthly competitions with giveaways that a lot of them have now ?
  • #20,070
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:01pm Sep 2, 2023 1:01pm
Quoting CableJ
Wait... is this new wording for eval/live accounts?!?!?!? {image}
I think they are really talking about their competition accounts. Doesn't The Funded Trder do monthly competitions where one can win challenges?
  • #20,071
  • Edited 1:32pm Sep 2, 2023 1:04pm | Edited 1:32pm
One thing,

A big youtube stock day trader "Warrior Trading" with courses and chat room was charged last year by SEC and found guilty of pump and dump activity, selling 5K+ courses & seminars that very few made money with and deceptive advertising. @ the end of the day he just had to change his marketing practices, post disclaimer warnings & pay a massive multi million dollar fine. He's still on YouTube doing his thing.
  • #20,072
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:05pm Sep 2, 2023 1:05pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} For a guy that cannot trade. What do you think how much Kazmi has ? $40 million or $100 million ? He netted around $172 million before taxes. Some business expenses for sure. So maybe $80 million after taxes he got or ? I am very curious to know how much the fine will be on 09/11.
Not really sure...But it wont be based on what he has for assets currently..There are no limits to the financial penalties...Could be 300mill.
As well it gets difficult with jurisdiction for the US reaching into a Canadians pocket. I personally know of trader(s) here in Canada fined many millions
from the SEC and they have been unable to seize any future earnings etc..

But there is no way out for this guy,,he is toast.

Im thinking there had to be an insider/whistleblower... Probably someone who believed in the concept of helping traders as they advertised...and at some
point realized how deep the fraud was...and seeing the lavish Bugatti lifestyle of the owner....and perhaps as a disgruntled employee doing the day to day
dirty work thought hmmm Screw this guy that wont pay me more.....Just a possibility.

We will find put the details in time... I think some more eye openers will be revealed .

Cheers
Blue
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #20,073
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:05pm Sep 2, 2023 1:05pm
Quoting FX-DON
I will have to read the rap sheet again but I do not recall reading that they actually trade any of their own funds, whether that be the CEO himself or an appointee.
They only put real money for STP traders (profitable traders and a "risk" for them)

For example, if you had a 200k account with a 24K DD they would deposit 24K in the real desk account. From then on this would be the maximum risk for them.
  • #20,074
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:06pm Sep 2, 2023 1:06pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Isn't that the usual monthly competitions with giveaways that a lot of them have now ?
ah ok, yes you are correct.
  • #20,075
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:08pm Sep 2, 2023 1:08pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I think they are really talking about their competition accounts. Doesn't The Funded Trder do monthly competitions where one can win challenges?
However, here is some changed verbiage
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: TFT.PNG Size: 57 KB

Everything is now "virtual".....yeah, that'll save 'em
  • #20,076
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:09pm Sep 2, 2023 1:09pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} However, here is some changed verbiage{image} Everything is now "virtual".....yeah, that'll save 'em
AHAHAHAHAh, that was quick

OK, now people can't say they don't know that they are playing a videogame.

I guess that now comes the casino commission or such.
  • #20,077
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:12pm Sep 2, 2023 1:12pm
https://myfundedfx.com/
Also changed things for simulated and such

"Once proven you can successfully and constantly trade our program, get up to an 80% profit split on all live sim profits you make. Continue to trade for as long as you want and get live sim accounts up to $1.5 million with our scaling plan."

2Manage Simulated Capital Up to $600k"
  • #20,078
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:12pm Sep 2, 2023 1:12pm
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} I think if the guy is supposedly batting for your own team you want him to have the most favourable conditions possible. Remember the strap line "If you win, we win". You don't make it more difficult for him. I know at least 3 brokers that between London and NY open you can get absolutely instant fill on 30 lots and often zero or tiny spread 0.1/0.2 on EU/GU and very rare to be slipped unless market moving particularly fast but that can also give a bit of positive slippage too. I will have to read the rap sheet again but I do not recall...
By the CFTC's own admission, those traders were legit A booked.... so it seems MFF had absolutely no confidence in the majority of that group being profitable in the real market (years of data), so perhaps the thought process was at least we can make money on every execution to offset some of the losses of the overall live book...

96. In a June 22, 2022, email with the subject line, “STP discussion,” the Advisor told Traders Global Employee A: “I think we need to all subscribe to the concept that your clients will almost never have alpha. None of them will make money on real market conditions because they are good. Some will because they are lucky.”
  • #20,079
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:16pm Sep 2, 2023 1:16pm
Bespoke also changed like TFT on everything (Simulated Trading Days, Phase 1 Virtual Profit Target, etc.)
It's a copy paste.
https://www.bespokefundingprogram.com/
  • #20,080
  • Sep 2, 2023 1:19pm Sep 2, 2023 1:19pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But no of those prop has own money. They have max. outside investors like FTMO for example is telling us. So they match investors with traders and then BOOM, you need a full license as prop. And that even can cause problems as trader you want to take part here. Only if they are operating like hedge funds then you are fine as trader and not need any licenses. But which FX prop firm can do this ? Maybe only FTMO.
So what happens if they don't match?? they just use their computer to analyze all the profitable accounts data and do some modifications to turn their traders's strategy into their own, cause all the traders must accept their policy to get a payout right? it turns out they using their investors (or their revenue) to trade by their "own" strategies. if you think this way, it is way easier than matching traders with investors like Darwinex don't you think?? is there any kind of regulation related to this kind of business model? or is it that hard to register all kinds of regulations (at least in your place) that are you talking about?

About Darwinex (or DarwinexZero more specifically), I think their business model is kinda realistic and with their long-time reputation, I think they don't get caught into some troubles like MFF. But this is the first time I heard they were banned from the EU. What is the reason exactly? so the EU citizen is not allowed to participate in their activities?? even their broker services? So their main users are from outside the world except the EU countries?? just take a look on their DarwinexZero ranking tho, can still see some users from EU countries.
Edit: some grammar error
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