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  • #16,941
  • Jun 23, 2023 5:00am Jun 23, 2023 5:00am
Quoting youngD
{quote} I do not support illegal approach. It was discussed here that income comes from fees so I just state fact from our discussion, but to be honest it is fact that on markets if one loose other trader win on opposite site so props are the same just only packed different way. Maybe managing whole trades and flow somehow could be good way to generate income from profitable traders or loosing ones but i do not have any proof that props send trades anywhere in real market so by now is clear what income source is.
I agree, and therein lies the problem. You cannot start one of these companies with no or very little capital and use accrued fees to pay the next customer, this is ponzi by it's very definition.
  • #16,942
  • Edited 6:05am Jun 23, 2023 5:33am | Edited 6:05am
Quoting youngD
As Takisd said it will kill props. First you pay small fee and get larger capital. All you need is few Eas generating small profits over time and running it accross few props. Basic martingale or grid Ea will generate profit over time on cross FX pairs the ones ranging mostly.
Some people in this thread seem to absolutely worship Takisd.
Such martingale or grid EA DOES NOT work. If it's really good, you would have made millions trading your personal account.
  • #16,943
  • Jun 23, 2023 6:19am Jun 23, 2023 6:19am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Some people in this thread seem to absolutely worship Takisd. Such martingale or grid EA DOES NOT work. If it's really good, you would have made millions trading your personal account.
"Such martingale or grid EA DOES NOT work. If it's really good, you would have made millions trading your personal account."

Been there, worn the t-shirt and you are correct. Even in perfect conditions the costs will out run the profits eventually.. leave this to the market makers as it's their job

If you are profitable after all costs including back end stuff, slippage, roll-overs etc, no one is going to sack you, if they do or they want to, then you are working for an illegal ponzi scheme. Pretty simple stuff.
  • #16,944
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:13am Jun 23, 2023 7:13am
Oh no I’m under attack by the 0.01 percent of traders who would actually make use of a no time limit account. What am I ever to do.

using Darwinex as an example is a bit funny, their policies and stringent as fuck. You won’t get anywhere near the offering from them that you get from any of these props timeframe or not. But be sure to use them in a statistical advantage ploy.

the data presented by prop firms makes it clear, no time limit doesn’t do anything but make people think they need no time limit. They still fail before 20 days in droves. Meanwhile like a handful of supposedly amazing traders of Goldman Sachs tier trading abilities cannot complete a 30-60 day challenge because of the days.

a guy who goes down 8 percent on a challenge wants to still be funded by grinding out smaller trades, but why weren’t your trades smaller to begin with? Seems you trade better with smaller size. Who would have thunk it. The mistake everyone makes trading the props is that they don’t know how to control greed. The pass rate, even on MFF as they posted on Twitter is better than the success rate of a brokerage trading company. The problem is when people get funded they fuck it up. And that has nothing to do with time limit
  • #16,945
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:19am Jun 23, 2023 7:19am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Some people in this thread seem to absolutely worship Takisd. Such martingale or grid EA DOES NOT work. If it's really good, you would have made millions trading your personal account.
ever gridded eurchf with a 300k account? No? Thought so. Grids don’t work long term but hit a range and you are golden. You only need to hit a target, you don’t need to trade live with it.
  • #16,946
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:36am Jun 23, 2023 7:36am
Takisd if most of the people will blow up in 15 days or so, this unlimited thing won't hurt that much prop firms.

From the traders perspective:
- Whoever passes challenges in 1 hour will go on passing in 1 hour
- Whoever passes challenges (or blow accounts in 15 days) will go on doing the same
- Whoever wants to benefit from more time to pass challenge, either because they have few setups during 30 days or because they only trade with full moon, those will be better.

The unlimited is the kind of thing that doesn't leave anyone worse off so I don't really get your point and so much discussion about that.
  • #16,947
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:43am Jun 23, 2023 7:43am
Quoting Capablanca
Takisd if most of the people will blow up in 15 days or so, this unlimited thing won't hurt that much prop firms. From the traders perspective: - Whoever passes challenges in 1 hour will go on passing in 1 hour - Whoever passes challenges (or blow accounts in 15 days) will go on doing the same - Whoever wants to benefit from more time to pass challenge, either because they have few setups during 30 days or because they only trade with full moon, those will be better. The unlimited is the kind of thing...
until the game is figured out yes it won’t hurt other than potential system clogging.

but like all things involving money eventually people will figure out how to abuse it.

most of the unfair banning we discuss now in here is from long short accusations. Because that is gaming the system. People will always find a way to cheat when money is involved stricter rules help alleviate that. Even brokers defend against it every day.

the problem is entitlement is real and it’s getting worse. Look at all the replies on Twitter to prop firms accounts there’s always people saying things like “giveaway 10k account to me please” or “why you don’t have giveaway”
  • #16,948
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:49am Jun 23, 2023 7:49am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} until the game is figured out yes it won’t hurt other than potential system clogging. but like all things involving money eventually people will figure out how to abuse it. most of the unfair banning we discuss now in here is from long short accusations. Because that is gaming the system. People will always find a way to cheat when money is involved stricter rules help alleviate that. Even brokers defend against it every day. the problem is entitlement is real and it’s getting worse. Look at all the replies on Twitter to prop firms accounts...
But how do you see this specific thing (unlimited time to pass challenge) to be abused and become a threat ?
  • #16,949
  • Jun 23, 2023 7:57am Jun 23, 2023 7:57am
Quoting Capablanca
Takisd if most of the people will blow up in 15 days or so, this unlimited thing won't hurt that much prop firms. From the traders perspective: - Whoever passes challenges in 1 hour will go on passing in 1 hour - Whoever passes challenges (or blow accounts in 15 days) will go on doing the same - Whoever wants to benefit from more time to pass challenge, either because they have few setups during 30 days or because they only trade with full moon, those will be better. The unlimited is the kind of thing...
He just repeats his views again and again. In my previous post, I have pointed out the paradox of his comments and the reason why he says like that, but he continues to repeat.
  • #16,950
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:06am Jun 23, 2023 8:06am
Quoting ladder
{quote} He just repeats his views again and again. In my previous post, I have pointed out the paradox of his comments and the reason why he says like that, but he continues to repeat.
are my views supposed to change because you said so?

I have read many of your posts just now. You mentioned things like paying for an extension which some firms already offer for free, you mentioned darwinex which is easily the hardest place to get good funding and you ignore stats which we are all privy to. But I am the one supposed to change?

At the very least my view is consistent.

actually what has impressed me about this conversation is that others have highlighted hedging risk already. I think someone on Twitter posted that MFFs gold volume is close to 30 percent of total gold market daily.

how do you propose handling that from a “should back traders” point of view? I am deeply curious of your opinion on this
  • #16,951
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:12am Jun 23, 2023 8:12am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} are my views supposed to change because you said so? I have read many of your posts just now. You mentioned things like paying for an extension which some firms already offer for free, you mentioned darwinex which is easily the hardest place to get good funding and you ignore stats which we are all privy to. But I am the one supposed to change? At the very least my view is consistent. actually what has impressed me about this conversation is that others have highlighted hedging risk already. I think someone on Twitter posted that MFFs gold...
Wow!!! 30% of total volume? MFF has become a giant player in the trading world.
  • #16,952
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:13am Jun 23, 2023 8:13am
Quoting Capablanca
Takisd if most of the people will blow up in 15 days or so, this unlimited thing won't hurt that much prop firms. From the traders perspective: - Whoever passes challenges in 1 hour will go on passing in 1 hour - Whoever passes challenges (or blow accounts in 15 days) will go on doing the same - Whoever wants to benefit from more time to pass challenge, either because they have few setups during 30 days or because they only trade with full moon, those will be better. The unlimited is the kind of thing...
I read somewhere or heard (myFF or TFT or FTMO) that most of traders fail (80% or higher) fail within 1 week and most breaches are daily instead of overall. I am saying from start unlimited time is marketing gimmick. The real problem with unlimited time or no time is if the trader is in winning streak for a week he or she will make hell lot of money which could potentially harm casinos a good risk averse firm will keep minimum trading days while they may remove max days.
  • #16,953
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:14am Jun 23, 2023 8:14am
Quoting Takisd
a guy who goes down 8 percent on a challenge wants to still be funded by grinding out smaller trades, but why weren’t your trades smaller to begin with? Seems you trade better with smaller size. Who would have thunk it.
Please don't make up things and then attack. A consistent trader would trade his proper size from the beginning and would keep drawdown below 5%.
You always like to use a specific type of traders as example to attack other types of traders.
  • #16,954
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:15am Jun 23, 2023 8:15am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} are my views supposed to change because you said so? I have read many of your posts just now. You mentioned things like paying for an extension which some firms already offer for free, you mentioned darwinex which is easily the hardest place to get good funding and you ignore stats which we are all privy to. But I am the one supposed to change? At the very least my view is consistent. actually what has impressed me about this conversation is that others have highlighted hedging risk already. I think someone on Twitter posted that MFFs gold...
can i ask what mff means?
thx/newbie
You have an IQ lower than 90 if you interact with this user.
  • #16,955
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:17am Jun 23, 2023 8:17am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Please don't make up things and then attack. A consistent trader would trade his proper size from the beginning and would keep drawdown below 5%. You always like to use a specific type of traders as example to attack other types of traders.
It is from this thread. An example given. But you just proved the point anyway without noticing it in your reply. The trader shouldn’t have been funded to begin with. That’s the point
  • #16,956
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:18am Jun 23, 2023 8:18am
I been there as well (using Eas) and got same view that is useless and if u trade profitable manually you don't need it. But there is plenty of traders who run ranging / trending bots at same time and optimize it to current conditions. The advantage is unlimited time and that you pay 500 and get at least 5000 (daily SL) . This makes opportunity to all Eas cheaters etc but it's just example it will be unlimited opportunity to try cheat system. So my thinking is that is not necessary either for props or traders who respect rules and take piece of pie for themselves. Imagine you deposit 500 and receive 5000 at your broker account and do whatever you want with unlimited time, this just not going to work that way in long-term. I believe there is few props which will survive this changes anyway and they know how to deal with toxic scalpers cheaters etc. For example I like the rules from ACG (Alpha Capital Group). They say they got own brokerage, and they got 2 rules 1- average trade time minimum 2 minutes 2- your following positions on instrument you trade cannot be bigger than first one you open. I think this gives them chance to manage flow they choose and avoid scammers. So basically I got no proof but rationally I think some of props either hedge or copy some profitable traders or bet against losing ones. Wish everyone success i am happy where i am and to be honest I don't care how this all props journey will end. For me it's just how. Much money I put on the table and how much I can take out . It doesn't matter if it's props brokers whatever future brings until i can trade profitable i will get some profits.
  • #16,957
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:18am Jun 23, 2023 8:18am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wow!!! 30% of total volume? MFF has become a giant player in the trading world.
most volume in most prop firms is gold because it moves hard and fast. If all this volume wasn’t managed the gold market would look like the worlds most painful roller coaster
  • #16,958
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:21am Jun 23, 2023 8:21am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} most volume in most prop firms is gold because it moves hard and fast. If all this volume wasn’t managed the gold market would look like the worlds most painful roller coaster
I am wondering why not trade US30 or NQ more volatile and respect technical levels
  • #16,959
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:23am Jun 23, 2023 8:23am
Another question, ladder, let’s say that FtMO removed all their day restrictions mon and max, they lowered their targets to what TFT is going to provide or MFF provides, immediately they gain an extra 50 plus market share, what do they do about the liquidity and infrastructure.
Realistically if either of the big two make these changes they will suck the air out of the room.

at some point in time 8crap is going to start choking due to server loads, with all the firms using them. Then what? Shouldn’t it be in the interest of all for firms to consider these problems?
  • #16,960
  • Jun 23, 2023 8:23am Jun 23, 2023 8:23am
Quoting sampat
{quote} I am wondering why not trade US30 or NQ more volatile and respect technical levels
I think it has something to do with market open being too whippy but I don’t know. I like dow
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