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  • #16,321
  • Edited 3:52am Jun 4, 2023 3:33am | Edited 3:52am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} You know they are Arbitrage EAs and trade only gold or are you just guessing? I see everywhere that Arbitrage is against most any broker rules but you are saying this contest administrator allows it and participants can openly use arbitrage trading?
I know it is gold because it is mentioned that it is the most traded product for each of the top participants. It is no surprise.
I am not saying the administrator allows arbitrage EAs, I just posted the leaderboard of the second day of the competition. What I can say is that the propfirm does not allow arbitrage EAs in the challenges but nothing is said about arbitrage EAs in the competition.
  • #16,322
  • Jun 4, 2023 6:39am Jun 4, 2023 6:39am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I am still listening, but this is a basic summary of what he has been talking about: He talks about how firms that provide offerings that are more trader-friendly (easier rules, lower profit targets, lower prices etc.), do so by reducing their overall profit margins, which equates to taking on more risk for the firm, and how being too competitive can result in a point of negative return. He also states that newer and existing firms that improve their offerings as a way to be or remain competitive, can be bad for the prop business because...

This is all coming from the guy who runs MFFX. He’s essentially a failed trader making a go with his own prop firm. He admittedly doesn’t have that much experience in the industry either. One could say that this is nothing more than a promotion for his firm.

Virtual prop firms have been around for better part of a decade + for futures. Conditions are even more egregious then anything on the FX side.

There’s still the fact of the relationship between the firm and private contractor. It’s nothing like the relationship when one has their own private account with a broker. He seems not to acknowledge that at all, which says a lot.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,323
  • Jun 4, 2023 7:18am Jun 4, 2023 7:18am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} How do they even know someone's trades are the result of latency arbitrage? The way I understand it, you open platforms from 2 different brokers. The EA based on something similar to copy trading, somehow monitors the prices of both brokers and at opportune times locks in the difference in prices that happened obviously due to latency. Each instant of the trading platform will have its own set of trades that just look like buy and sells. You'd have to have both accounts side by side to see what is going on or you'd have to analyze the statements...
Excellent comment and good question. I don't know but I notice that Blue Guardian is the only prop firm to have arbitrage issues and it's always when there's a big payout in play. Strange no ?
  • #16,324
  • Jun 4, 2023 8:56am Jun 4, 2023 8:56am
Quoting Cryptosurf
This is all coming from the guy who runs MFFX.
-The interesting part for me, listening to these young prop firm owners, are the small details that they give away, that shed some light on how these firms operate and think. Not that it matters much, though.

Quoting Cryptosurf
for futures. Conditions are even more egregious then anything on the FX side.
-I assume that you mean this in a bad way? I remember you talking about futures over at babypips. I recall you speaking good things about futures, other than the higher barrier-to-entry... but maybe that was a good thing(?), I cannot remember.

I've seen two interviews recently and both were traders that were doing well with commodities. One was doing 30+ million per year and the other did like 180 million in 6 months.

I am perfectly fine with trading indices, though. These props serve as a great vehicle for funding personal accounts.
  • #16,325
  • Jun 4, 2023 8:58am Jun 4, 2023 8:58am
Quoting Sherlock
{quote} Makes complete sense. New firms are giving away too much, always a discount going one, always a giving away going on, trading competition goin on where thousands of USD is given away, no minimum trading days for gamblers. So many benefits to the traders. As a trader this seems good for us but I don't believe that a firm doing all these giving away continuously won't face serious problem of being bankrupt. At certain point good and profitable traders will realize that these new prop firms with Eightcap broker doesn't offer any better conditions...
The irony of it all is MFF STILL OFFERS THE BEST conditions with 8% target to 12% DD in stage 1 and then, of course, 12% DD in funded. They began this way and have not changed a damn thing. The min/max trading days is all marketing, as long as a company offers free retries if you're in profit and/or an extension (most firms do), the min/max days are kind of irrelevant. As someone has already stated there is no difference between no minimum days OR trade huge and hit target in 1 day and trade .01 the rest of the days.
  • #16,326
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:21am Jun 4, 2023 9:21am
Quoting pipmaster77
The irony of it all is MFF STILL OFFERS THE BEST conditions with 8% target to 12% DD in stage 1 and then, of course, 12% DD in funded. They began this way and have not changed a damn thing. The min/max trading days is all marketing
-The no min/max days marketing seems to have worked well for MFFX. At least, he seems to attribute their growth to that.

He stated during the call that they are 11 months old, and have already grown to be top 5 firm in terms of size already.

Whether or not there is any truth to that is unknown. I certainly cannot say what data he is using to base that off of, either. If there is any truth to it, then I suspect that a large part of it has to do with his transparency, as off-putting as it may seem to some.

As much as I dislike instant models, I do have to give MFF credit for having that in their toolbox. It certainly seems like an advantage over firms that do not offer it, since it is basically a 'risk-free' way to generate revenue if done correctly.
  • #16,327
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:23am Jun 4, 2023 9:23am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The interesting part for me, listening to these young prop firm owners, are the small details that they give away, that shed some light on how these firms operate and think. Not that it matters much, though. {quote}-I assume that you mean this in a bad way? I remember you talking about futures over at babypips. I recall you speaking good things about futures, other than the higher barrier-to-entry... but maybe that was a good thing(?), I cannot remember. I've seen two interviews recently and both were traders that were doing well with commodities....
Futures trading your own account is what he was speaking of. He is stating the remote props which offer futures trading offer way worse conditions than the fx props. I believe the point here is no regulators are bothering them and they've been around longer. It is a much, much smaller market share though, way less customers, therefore way less exposure to would be regulation.
  • #16,328
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:30am Jun 4, 2023 9:30am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The no min/max days marketing seems to have worked well for MFFX. At least, he seems to attribute their growth to that. He stated during the call that they are 11 months old, and have already grown to be top 5 firm in terms of size already. Whether or not there is any truth to that is unknown. I certainly cannot say what data he is using to base that off of, either. If there is any truth to it, then I suspect that a large part of it has to do with his transparency, as off-putting as it may seem to some. As much as I dislike instant models,...
Yes, the no minimum days grabbed the entire spectrum of traders who didn't want the time limit pressure, but wanted the value of challenge model vs. instant.
I actually like his transparecy and what he states makes a lot of sense. If it is a well thought out marketing plug, he has done a great job.
Top 5? I'm guessing replacing E8 or the 5%ers at number 5, so coming in behind MFF,FTMO,TFTP, TFF?
Yes, actually quite smart of MFF on the instant, it is risk -free additional revenue that can obviously be used for costs in other areas if need be. Matter of fact, the free revenue of the instant MAY BE why we get the better conditions on evaluation.
  • #16,329
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:32am Jun 4, 2023 9:32am
Quoting pipmaster77
Futures trading your own account is what he was speaking of. He is stating the remote props which offer futures trading offer way worse conditions than the fx props. I believe the point here is no regulators are bothering them and they've been around longer. It is a much, much smaller market share though, way less customers, therefore way less exposure to would be regulation.
-Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.
  • #16,330
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:37am Jun 4, 2023 9:37am
Quoting pipmaster77
I actually like his transparecy and what he states makes a lot of sense.
-Agreed. I only mention it because he said something about it during the call. I suppose that some might think that he is too young or maybe some of the things that he does/says is not as professional as some would like. I can only guess. Certainly, I would put him over TFTP in terms of certain traits.

I would not be surprised if he reads this thread, honestly.
  • #16,331
  • Jun 4, 2023 9:54am Jun 4, 2023 9:54am
This UK firm is holding a free draw for a trading account. Based in the UK and well thought of

https://www.fundedtradingplus.com

Their FAQ page might help to gain an understanding of the firm.

https://www.fundedtradingplus.com/faqs-funded-trading/
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #16,332
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:04am Jun 4, 2023 10:04am
I see FXIFY rampant although this may the the initial launch phase.
But they brought something new which is paid add-ons for whatever you want (unlimited, biweekly, 90% instead of 75%, etc.).
But they sound really strong, extremely simple rules and with the FXPig behind (or at least that's what they say).
I'm following them closely.
  • #16,333
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:10am Jun 4, 2023 10:10am
Quoting wansiman
{quote} Eightcap is a nightmare. The CEO Simon promised me a refund after a bad review on Trustpilot,So i removed it. I have seen more bad reviews disappear so i wonder if .....
This was my experience as well with FT+. The same thing happened. Got a refund after Eightcap froze for several minutes. Could not enter a trade. Worse, others in a trade could not exit. FT+ fixed accounts that had been hurt during the freeze, but who needs that anxiety and aggravation? Any Eightcap brokered firm is off my list.

Sticking with MFF as first choice due to their solid history, 8% TP, and better extension of time rules.
  • #16,334
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:12am Jun 4, 2023 10:12am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The irony of it all is MFF STILL OFFERS THE BEST conditions with 8% target to 12% DD in stage 1 and then, of course, 12% DD in funded. They began this way and have not changed a damn thing. The min/max trading days is all marketing, as long as a company offers free retries if you're in profit and/or an extension (most firms do), the min/max days are kind of irrelevant. As someone has already stated there is no difference between no minimum days OR trade huge and hit target in 1 day and trade .01 the rest of the days.
If you are a good trader and consistantly profitable , you can go for their VIP program. I like MFFX VIP program.. T3 is what I am shooting for one day...it has daily 8% /total 14%DD
...
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  • #16,335
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:14am Jun 4, 2023 10:14am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I assume that you mean this in a bad way? I remember you talking about futures over at babypips.
Theres several Futures virtual prop firms. TopStep being the oldest, 10+ years. The conditions to pass are way worse than anything you’ll find on the CFD FX side.

That MFFX guy has a bad case of verbal diarrhea. He’s talking about his firm as if it’s a “broker”. If he had legal clarity, then they would advise him to shut up. If anything is going to happen with these firms via regulation, it will be due to people such as him not understanding the space he’s involved in.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #16,336
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:16am Jun 4, 2023 10:16am
Quoting Nehemah
Hello everyone, I finally got my first payout with Blue Guardian but they are again faced with complaints in the Telegram group for a payment of 7 K not made. The cause: latency arbitrage and reverse trading (this last point has not been proven) They seem to be struggling and have done a huge promotion (20%) to make fresh money. It will be without me for my part (regarding this offer)
I was reading all the fuss yesterday in one of the prop group. One about Blue Guardian and another about Finotive

As far as I understood there was a guy that was denied a 7K payout in Blue Guardian. Accused of latency and reverse.

He published the messages exchanged with CEO:
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And this is the message of the guy that was denied:
"Hi guys,
Not here to spread bad news or talk bad about a company. Just wanting to share my experience and warn you so you don't make the same mistakes like me.
I was trading with Blue Guardian, failed 2 challenges and passed the 3rd one (so paid 3x fee). After being funded I made 7000$ and they banned me for no reason.
The reason was 'reverse trading' and 'latency arbitrage' which I did not do. I asked for specific trades to prove it and they couldn't do it, I talked to the CEO and also he said he could do nothing.
Well fine, if I get all my 3 fees back I would be ok and just choose another prop firm. Well guess what... They paid back my fee but only 1 and banned me from the company forever. I did nothing wrong and I'm punished for things I did not do.

So do with this message whatever you want, I just share it for me it's a big red flag "

When asked to explain the group the CEO of BG just said this:

"We have already spoke with Alex and explained with him. His account was sent to us by our risk company and flagged latency arb and reverse trading. Upon inspection we seen majority passing trades held for a few seconds and decided not fund the trader. I spoke with alex and offered him his refund back out of good service. Nothing further to discuss about the matter and we are moving forward."

So, apparently no proof of reverse was provided and latency is trades of some seconds (no proof presented).

I also received a payout + refund from Blue but I always had some bad vibes with them due to their CEO. It's basically a kid behaving like a kid in the prop group.

I remember that in the past they were making risk assessment and denying funded account, even is people passed without violations (there were plenty of claim about that in Trust Pilot). Then they launched Blue Guardian sort of 2.0, saying that no more risk assessment was being done. Everybody wold be granted a funded account.

But we know that when shady is the nature of a prop, it won't go away just because they rebrand or relaunch it.

So careful about Blue Guardian.
  • #16,337
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:17am Jun 4, 2023 10:17am
Quoting turnip15
This UK firm is holding a free draw for a trading account. Based in the UK and well thought of
-How is your firm doing these days?
  • #16,338
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:22am Jun 4, 2023 10:22am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Theres several Futures virtual prop firms. TopStep being the oldest, 10+ years. The conditions to pass are way worse than anything you’ll find on the CFD FX side.
-I actually think that I have come across their site a few times, now that I think about it. Thanks for the clarification.

Quoting Cryptosurf
That MFFX guy has a bad case of verbal diarrhea. He’s talking about his firm as if it’s a “broker”. If he had legal clarity, then they would advise him to shut up. If anything is going to happen with these firms via regulation, it will be due to people such as him not understanding the space he’s involved in.
-You make a very good point. And as mentioned, any firm that sets up shop inside of the U.S. will likely not serve this space well over the long-term, even if they have the best of intentions.
  • #16,339
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:30am Jun 4, 2023 10:30am
For Finotive Funding the things seems also shady, if not a scam.

Basically there was a guy that lost 45K in previous funded account (don't know how many).

He purchased more challenges (I think two). Then he passed one and they denied the funded account saying that he had lost 45K previously and had a gambling behavior.

These is the correspondence:
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And this is the review in Trust Pilot:
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Then the response from Finotive in the group:
"
Dear Leek,
Thanks for taking the time to leave a review on our firm.
The Responsible Trading Policy is designed to both control the risk per trade on an account level, but also to analyse the behaviour of the trader as a whole. As you correctly quoted in your review, you have lost $46,000 in funded capital so far, and based on your history of blowing accounts until you strike a couple of wins and can request a payout, we would 100% class this as a reckless/gambling trade approach.
Looking at this information, there is a high probability that you will continue to lose accounts due to your method of trading which makes it impossible for us to profitably put your trades through to market. For firms operating purely on a fee-collection model, this would be no problem and your business would be welcome, but as we are actually looking to find profitable traders, we decided that the best outcome for both parties would be to refuse funding and offer a full refund.
And finally, in the month of May we funded almost $24 million to traders and paid out just under $300,000 in profit splits. We are more than happy to fund profitable traders who follow our rules!
We really do wish you the best of luck in your trading career, and hope that you take the money refunded and use it towards your goals.
Best Regards,
The Finotive Team"

The interesting thing is the list of trades. They don't seem gambling:
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The finotive guy said again:
"The trader in question has lost over $45,000 in capital and is likely to continue losing us money using the same approach of trading if further funding is provided. As a capital providing firm, we no longer require traders to pay for their losses, but we have every right to terminate a business relationship with a trader if that relationship is not only fruitful but proves to cause us consistent losses. "


So, it's very dubious. Finotive knew that the guy lost 45k in the past (and considered him a gambler), but allowed him to buy new challenges. When he passed they refused funding. It's terrible behavior. They should have kicked him out before he purchased new challenges IMO.
  • #16,340
  • Jun 4, 2023 10:43am Jun 4, 2023 10:43am
This aint nothin but a summer Jam. I text from the beach! Happy summer.

MFFX ceo is a kid. I dont think he means harm but he clearly doesnt know anything about forex, brokers, risk or risk management as an institution. The newbies are lapping it up but it wont last long as........ low and behold the slippage complaints appear. 8cap strikes again.

Its a bit rich when a 26 yr old with a low cost solution changes a few rules then talks about revolutionizing the market place. He talks about being first at things, but i remember Funding talent and MFF both addressing the public over 2 yrs ago regularly. One of them is dead just so you know, the other appears to have focused on quality improvement more than hot air wind bagging.

5th in market share? You sure kid? Looks like barely just in the top 10 from traffic stats from a reputable source (semrush). Imagine picking out accounts to a-book if you have 1.5 million unique visitors per month. It would be like a sweat shop assembly line of data analytics and quite possibly a nuclear winter on the margin account.

But the good thing about this thread is that there are smart individuals here who get to the truth. Unlimited days does nothing, most kids fail in first 15 days or so. These new firms all are just marketing platforms from the same out of the box package provider. Coupon them in, slip them out, churn and burn baby!

Funnily enough you can't make money as a prop firm with A book. It is only a risk mitigation system, but if you look at the bigger picture, beyond A or B, there could be a solution, but no single page html dealer function is going to offer that, perhaps MFFX CEO has been mislead by vultures and is regurgitating their sales pitch.

My new rule for prop firms, its personal you dont need to follow, if it isn't their own server, they aren't a trading firm. You cannot get good liquidity without your own set up and eightcap SUCKS and always has. Thinkmarkets SUCKS and always has. Back in 2012, we used to call Thinkforex now Thinkmarkets STINKFOREX. This stems from NFP slippage on gold where they would slip chinese gold traders massively but not everyone else. And these are the options they give. YUCK. But imagine, a marketing firm choosing a marketing firm and pretending both marketing firms are financial markets experts. hilarious.

Good to see you all again, time to put aloe on my sunburned self, beach life is tough
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