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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #15,841
  • Edited 8:05am May 21, 2023 7:41am | Edited 8:05am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} From the mathematical point of view you're right of course. However, you'd need unlimited time challenge to really utilize the benefit of 12% DD which is not the MFF case. Once you get below the 8% mark and esp. below the 10% mark it is nearly impossible to recover within the remaining days at it represents making at least 500% profit (10% profit / 2% remaining DD) in like 20 days maybe, or even less? Yes, it is possible but not easy. Unlike you, even on funded when I have unlimited time to recover, I usually find it easier to just give...
Yes, the case I presented where I was down 7% was live and it took 2 months to recover. I guess it also depends where you are in your overall portfolio. I only copy about 20% accross all firms. I trade different instruments with different firms, so I was getting paid from other firms while in rcovery on that particular account.
You are correct as well, once below 6% with 12 % available, you now have 6% to make 6% just like flipping a phase 1, should be quicker though as it is only 6%. That's only live getting back to even. Challenge phase 1, you are 6% to make 14% (MFF), worse everywhere else.
Once you have only 1-2%DD left, it is YOLO, all-in. Of course, if you fail, than you are paying again, which is obviously a factor as well. At that point, it's a time vs. money scenario.
I guess that was my point, down 7% with MFF, still very recoverable.......down 7% anywhere else, YOLO or too much time to make recover worth it

If it's the FIRST payout, changes everything as well, refund vs. pay again is actually a 2x entry fee swing (+$500 vs. -$500, 100K example)
  • #15,842
  • May 21, 2023 7:53am May 21, 2023 7:53am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Sure, anyone can recover once in awhile. I just don't look at it the same way you do. I NEVER fail because I didn't have that extra 4% drawdown. I fail because I wasn't disciplined in my risk management. Having said that, sure, I could run it back up from being in a 10% drawdown but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't follow my plan in the first place or I would have never gotten to -10%. I'd rather have 8% drawdown allowable for the same price(actually cheaper as MFF offers doo doo in the way of discounts.)...
I agree 100%. The newer firms payout times, smooth process and no trading downtime put most of the older ones to shame.
  • #15,843
  • May 21, 2023 9:21am May 21, 2023 9:21am
New firm

https://fortunesfunding.com/#customAccountType
  • #15,844
  • Edited 10:41am May 21, 2023 9:47am | Edited 10:41am
Quoting sampat
New firm https://fortunesfunding.com/#customAccountType
No trading in red news.
https://help.fortunesfunding.com/en/...c-news-trading

And a list of prohibited strategies that are not clearly defined

  1. Martingale
  2. Grid Trading
  3. Macroeconomic trading during high impact reports and being filled at an unrealistic price due to the volatility.


I think new companies should come with simpler rules than the established props if they want to succeed (not worse rules).
Or, at least, be clear about the concepts like grid trading, martingale, etc.

  • #15,845
  • May 21, 2023 10:21am May 21, 2023 10:21am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} No trading in red news. https://help.fortunesfunding.com/en/...c-news-trading And a list of prohibited strategiesthat are not clear defined Martingale Grid Trading Macroeconomic trading during high impact reports and being filled at an unrealistic price due to the volatility. I think new companies should come with simpler rules than the established props if they want to succeed (not worse rules). Or, at least, be clear...
I think they do it with hidden agenda to avoid big payouts at the same time they don't want to restrict gamblers for signups....thats why they keep such rules as backup.
  • #15,846
  • May 21, 2023 1:07pm May 21, 2023 1:07pm
Quoting navk
Hi dears, I had been living outside canada for some time. Now, i have moved to canada in the last 3 weeks. Most of you know MFF issues two type of contract agreements. 1 ) For canadian residents and 2 ) for people living outside canada. Why this two type of contracts ? Any tax implications ? I recd contract after KYC when i was outside Canada. MFF rep says no need to do kyc again. For just knowledge purpose, I wish to know why two type of contracts. Thanks.
Yes. Canadian residents are taxed on world wide income. Canadian visitors are taxed on Canadian sourced income with respect for global taxation treaties that recognize taxes paid to other countries.

You need to sit down with a qualified tax specialist with foreign tax and residency experience and review the details of your situation.
  • #15,847
  • Edited 7:37pm May 21, 2023 1:30pm | Edited 7:37pm
Quoting sampat
New firm https://fortunesfunding.com/#customAccountType
Wow, they are using AirJFX for their broker.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel. Yikes!
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,848
  • May 21, 2023 2:44pm May 21, 2023 2:44pm
Quoting pipmaster77
I guess that was my point, down 7% with MFF, still very recoverable.......down 7% anywhere else, YOLO
-If I had to guess, I would say that most traders are probably losing their account(s) by breaching daily draw-down, not max draw-down. It would be interesting to know those statistics.

If that is true, then the additional max draw-down will only carry weight with a small minority.

Regarding MFFX, I do have to question their pricing, though. If they are going to offer less overall draw-down, then you would think that they would do so at a lower price-point. Perhaps they believe that the value of their draw-down is worth more since the speed and convenience that they offer (as well as no down-time during payouts, no minimum and no maximum trading days), is greater than their competitors.

Maybe it is a fair point...
  • #15,849
  • May 21, 2023 4:17pm May 21, 2023 4:17pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-If I had to guess, I would say that most traders are probably losing their account(s) by breaching daily draw-down, not max draw-down. It would be interesting to know those statistics. If that is true, then the additional max draw-down will only carry weight with a small minority. Regarding MFFX, I do have to question their pricing, though. If they are going to offer less overall draw-down, then you would think that they would do so at a lower price-point. Perhaps they believe that the value of their draw-down is worth more since the speed...
You are probably correct regarding most losing by breaching daily DD. Just solidifies the point of these challenges attracting mostly gamblers. If I have 10-12% DD available, why on earth am I going to violate using only 5%? I mean even if you go to 3% per day, you have 3 or 4 days to play.
Once again, and you have stated this numerous times, this opportunity is beyond what most actually see it as. You can literally start with a few hundred dollars, reinvest refunded fees and profits for a few months and build yourself some serious funding. Once there, risk model is simply based on max DD, you make way above average income with minimal risk.
  • #15,850
  • May 21, 2023 7:20pm May 21, 2023 7:20pm
Quoting pipmaster77
If I have 10-12% DD available, why on earth am I going to violate using only 5%? I mean even if you go to 3% per day, you have 3 or 4 days to play.
-You are preaching to the choir, my friend.
  • #15,851
  • May 21, 2023 7:29pm May 21, 2023 7:29pm
But to the point, I agree that they should probably offer more draw-down or lower their pricing. However, given the other benefits that they seem to offer over other firms, then perhaps it may be a fair trade-off for now. At the very least, it leaves some possible room for improvement later on, and, it might encourage other firms to follow suit. If those other firms take notice and decide to evolve in order to stay current, then MFFX may feel more pressure to make the pricing/draw-down improvements in order to remain competitive.

If you ask me personally, I just see MFFX as another potential for capital growth that will bring my risk down even further. I like to see healthy competition in this space.
  • #15,852
  • May 21, 2023 7:47pm May 21, 2023 7:47pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-If I had to guess, I would say that most traders are probably losing their account(s) by breaching daily draw-down, not max draw-down. It would be interesting to know those statistics. If that is true, then the additional max draw-down will only carry weight with a small minority. Regarding MFFX, I do have to question their pricing, though. If they are going to offer less overall draw-down, then you would think that they would do so at a lower price-point. Perhaps they believe that the value of their draw-down is worth more since the speed...
FTMO offers a 10% total drawdown AND the profit target is 10%, and yet their prices compared to MFF are anywhere from 20-100% higher.

So the question is, why would anyone ever use FTMO?

Answer: Most people aren't paying a fee based on drawdown. All of the other factors that constitute a good prop firm count more.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,853
  • May 21, 2023 8:17pm May 21, 2023 8:17pm
TFT with 20% coupon offering 100K account for $439 with a 12% drawdown.

Looks like MFF needs to lower its prices.

See where I'm going with this?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,854
  • May 21, 2023 8:21pm May 21, 2023 8:21pm
Quoting Expo33
So the question is, why would anyone ever use FTMO? Answer: Most people aren't paying a fee based on drawdown. All of the other factors that constitute a good prop firm count more.
-The other factors are certainly a part of the equation, absolutely. Once trust is established, then the draw-down, rules and conditions etc. will carry different weight for different people. FTMO's higher-end pricing may be not be justifiable forever, especially given recent rumors and speculation.
  • #15,855
  • May 21, 2023 8:59pm May 21, 2023 8:59pm
Quoting Nsak3y
But to the point, I agree that they should probably offer more draw-down or lower their pricing. However, given the other benefits that they seem to offer over other firms, then perhaps it may be a fair trade-off for now. At the very least, it leaves some possible room for improvement later on, and, it might encourage other firms to follow suit. If those other firms take notice and decide to evolve in order to stay current, then MFFX may feel more pressure to make the pricing/draw-down improvements in order to remain competitive. If you ask me personally,...
Let's not forget also, there is no MAXIMUM days either. You can literally trade this low risk from the begginning. There is definitely value to that.
  • #15,856
  • May 21, 2023 9:02pm May 21, 2023 9:02pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} FTMO offers a 10% total drawdown AND the profit target is 10%, and yet their prices compared to MFF are anywhere from 20-100% higher. So the question is, why would anyone ever use FTMO? Answer: Most people aren't paying a fee based on drawdown. All of the other factors that constitute a good prop firm count more.
I've stated several times recently. If starting this over TODAY, there are 3-4 firms I'm going with before FTMO.
  • #15,857
  • May 21, 2023 9:20pm May 21, 2023 9:20pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Let's not forget also, there is no MAXIMUM days either. You can literally trade this low risk from the begginning. There is definitely value to that.
-Yes. I suspect that many traders will try to get to live as quickly as possible, regardless.
  • #15,858
  • May 21, 2023 9:24pm May 21, 2023 9:24pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes. I suspect that many traders will try to get to live as quickly as possible, regardless.
Right. Where I look at the unlimited max time as the beneift, I bet 90% look at the no minimum as the selling point. Once again, if there is other income coming from other firms, personal account, etc....slow and steady will ALWAYS outperform YOLO/ all-in trading.
  • #15,859
  • May 21, 2023 9:27pm May 21, 2023 9:27pm
Quoting Expo33
TFT with 20% coupon offering 100K account for $439 with a 12% drawdown. Looks like MFF needs to lower its prices. See where I'm going with this?
MyFF will not reduce price as they pay cashback on challenge profits plus recently last week they made 5 mil payouts. Only cons with MyFF is 30 days wait for first payout and 75%. I believe they will not change as longer the withdrawal less chances for trader to withdraw.
  • #15,860
  • May 21, 2023 9:41pm May 21, 2023 9:41pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} MyFF will not reduce price as they pay cashback on challenge profits plus recently last week they made 5 mil payouts. Only cons with MyFF is 30 days wait for first payout and 75%. I believe they will not change as longer the withdrawal less chances for trader to withdraw.
Yea I was being sarcastic and making the point that price in relation to drawdown isn't the driving factor that most are using to make their purchase.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
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