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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #15,701
  • May 15, 2023 4:29pm May 15, 2023 4:29pm
Quoting Takisd
As I roam around the prop space in my boredom I noticed that all the new ones are the same, few extra trading condition changes, all of them are doing giveaways. Imagine thinking you will be a professional trader at a place that offers a lucky draw. Clown world.
Don't be like that. It's also nice to have chess and poker tournaments. If you don't make money at trading maybe you find out another career.
  • #15,702
  • May 15, 2023 4:34pm May 15, 2023 4:34pm
Quoting Takisd
Imagine thinking you will be a professional trader at a place that offers a lucky draw. Clown world.
-Trading via prop can sure be thought of as a lottery or as gambling etc., depending on who you ask.

I do not really care, either way, personally. What I care about are my odds of winning. Someone can compare me to a professional trader or to a card counter...does not matter much to me since I know what my odds of winning are, and they are much better than any lottery or blackjack game.

From what I recall reading somewhere (I could be totally mistaken), many traders may be more inclined to develop some form of gambling addiction, since the mindset needed for both may be similar. I can personally say that I do not have any desire to gamble; other than a few powerball tickets here and there, but very rarely.

When I was young, I worked valet at a casino. I saw many of the same people there every night. Some even had the floorboards of their car covered with piles of old scratcher tickets.
  • #15,703
  • May 15, 2023 4:42pm May 15, 2023 4:42pm
Quoting Capablanca
So I guess that below some threshold they just process the payout and let it go, not paying much attention or spending much time. In bigger payouts maybe they are looking for the slightest thing that give them a chance of not paying
-You may very well be correct in this thinking. Another point to make about this, is that it may be much more difficult (and with more PR backlash potential) if a firm needed to try to terminate all of your accounts in lieu of just one. They would need additional reasoning and justification just in order to not sound crooked, I think.

With this assumption in mind, having more accounts may offer even greater protection since they would need excuses for denying payment for every single account that you have. And if you are trading 15 to 30 accounts with them, then it will be a lot harder for them to justify their actions if/when they chose not to say anything at all when all of those accounts passed through their evaluation/verification phases using the same kind of trading approach.
  • #15,704
  • May 16, 2023 12:31am May 16, 2023 12:31am
I'm a sucker for a good coupon.

I bought a 50K One Step Knight Challenge and got a free 10K Rapid Challenge for $260. Honestly, that's not a bad deal.

I can't believe it's already been 2 years since Blake was pimpin' prop firms on youtube to spamming my inbox with the latest "Build your Kingdom" crap.
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,705
  • May 16, 2023 2:59am May 16, 2023 2:59am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I prefer the 100K account, the 200K account(s) offer a small discount at some firms and zero discount at the others, not enough to be significant. I simply started with the 100K and am most comfortable and the numbers are easy. Starting small is fine too and actually may be a better solution as you can build quite a substantial amount of funding with very, very small outlay, simply by reinvesting refunded fees and profits. You can even start with a 10K account and just reinvest your first $1,000 in profit into 2 x100K or 1x 200K and repeat...
This is exactly the way I did it, after blowing a fair few 100K challenges and even a live funded account, I went back to trading 10K challenges and re-invested profits in new challenges - going from 10K, 20K, 50K and eventually 100K. The profits may be small on 10K accounts but it changed my mindset from treating this like a video game/gambling to a serious long term business opportunity.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #15,706
  • May 16, 2023 7:06am May 16, 2023 7:06am
MFFX new broker: https://www.forexfactory.com/news/12...0-million-spac
  • #15,707
  • May 16, 2023 7:10am May 16, 2023 7:10am
Quoting TraderTero
MFFX new broker: https://www.forexfactory.com/news/12...0-million-spac
Interesting, a publicly traded broker diving into the prop firm space. Good? Bad? Indifferent?
  • #15,708
  • May 16, 2023 7:12am May 16, 2023 7:12am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Interesting, a publicly traded broker diving into the prop firm space. Good? Bad? Indifferent?
Publicly traded company compliance accepting prop space, unlikely. But Think have said before they will list on the ASX but didn't. They enjoy the marketing of it all. The two brothers who own it are scum of scum.
  • #15,709
  • May 16, 2023 7:23am May 16, 2023 7:23am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Publicly traded company compliance accepting prop space, unlikely. But Think have said before they will list on the ASX but didn't. They enjoy the marketing of it all. The two brothers who own it are scum of scum.

They are just a service provider for MFFX so what really counts are the trading conditions provided. Most of the complaints on FPA are related to payment issues, not to technical issues. This could be positive for MFFX.
  • #15,710
  • May 16, 2023 8:01am May 16, 2023 8:01am
Quoting micmic78
hello everyone thinking maybe trying prop firm with small amount to see how it goes. any recommendations for firm to non us clients except ftmo. passed their test on demo account in two weeks but i don't like their rules. thanks in advance
I'd recommend my forex funds. I just got funded with a 5k challenge. I'll use the profits to buy more (bigger) challenges and just snowball the £49 or whatever the original 5k challenge cost me. Everything is automated with them and it works very smoothly. Highly recommend based on my experience so far.
  • #15,711
  • May 16, 2023 11:04am May 16, 2023 11:04am
Quoting bluepanido
{quote} I'd recommend my forex funds. I just got funded with a 5k challenge. I'll use the profits to buy more (bigger) challenges and just snowball the £49 or whatever the original 5k challenge cost me. Everything is automated with them and it works very smoothly. Highly recommend based on my experience so far.
I know this would be irrelevant for most but as long as I used Duplikium I noticed an interesting thing - whereas the hated 8cap or E8 or TFF always connect(ed) reliably and quickly MFF was the only prop firm which always had some issues. Server connections dropped frequently, or didn't connect at all, orders copied with delay or not at all, always something I had to solve. All others - trouble-free mostly
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,712
  • May 16, 2023 11:17am May 16, 2023 11:17am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I know this would be irrelevant for most but as long as I used Duplikium I noticed an interesting thing - whereas the hated 8cap or E8 or TFF always connect(ed) reliably and quickly MFF was the only prop firm which always had some issues. Server connections dropped frequently, or didn't connect at all, orders copied with delay or not at all, always something I had to solve. All others - trouble-free mostly
I just started a a MFFX 2 step challenge, using 8cap. Why does everybody hate 8cap so much? What issues should I be looking out for? Thanks.
  • #15,713
  • May 16, 2023 11:54am May 16, 2023 11:54am
Quoting bluepanido
{quote} I just started a a MFFX 2 step challenge, using 8cap. Why does everybody hate 8cap so much? What issues should I be looking out for? Thanks.
I have not had much trouble with 8cap, but I only trade the 28 forex majors and cross pairs, no indices or crypto, and I don't scalp. I also avoid news and rollover (except for trades left open for swing trading, but usually the stop loss is far enough away). For the most part I haven't seen the problems with slippage and spreads that I read about in Discord groups every day. I HAVE seen times that the demo servers were sluggish or completely out for 20-40 minutes at a time or so when the real servers were not affected, and had to contact prop firms to get it resolved (since you can't contact 8cap directly if it's not your account). They definitely had a higher priority for uptime/service on the real servers vs. demo servers, but that has improved over the past year or two with 8cap partnering up with so many prop firms and most prop firms using their demo servers for accounts. I think they've given a lot more priority to demo server uptime in the past year or two and it has improved.
  • #15,714
  • May 16, 2023 4:33pm May 16, 2023 4:33pm
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} I have not had much trouble with 8cap, but I only trade the 28 forex majors and cross pairs, no indices or crypto, and I don't scalp. I also avoid news and rollover (except for trades left open for swing trading, but usually the stop loss is far enough away). For the most part I haven't seen the problems with slippage and spreads that I read about in Discord groups every day. I HAVE seen times that the demo servers were sluggish or completely out for 20-40 minutes at a time or so when the real servers were not affected, and had to contact...
Exactly my sentiment as well. I do not trade in a way to allow slippage and spreads to affect me. It's truly that simple. I do trade indices, but I do not scalp, I may HOLD a trade through news, but I do not specifically look to trade the event and if I am going to hold through rollover, I widen the stop or throw a quick hedge on.
Folks need to simply adjust some things to not be affected........ALL OF THE ABOVE WILL AFFECT YOU (probably worse) on your own personal account with a broker!!!!!
  • #15,715
  • May 16, 2023 8:28pm May 16, 2023 8:28pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly my sentiment as well. I do not trade in a way to allow slippage and spreads to affect me. It's truly that simple. I do trade indices, but I do not scalp, I may HOLD a trade through news, but I do not specifically look to trade the event and if I am going to hold through rollover, I widen the stop or throw a quick hedge on. Folks need to simply adjust some things to not be affected........ALL OF THE ABOVE WILL AFFECT YOU (probably worse) on your own personal account with a broker!!!!!
I think that's the only way to trade with these prop firms to avoid any kind of red flags. If swing trading for 50-100 pips than slippage and spread is last thing to worry about. I think these prop firms devise a way to frustrate scalpers by adding default spreads E8, TPT, TFT adds consistently adds 0.5 to 1 pip spreads with normal lot sizes on demo accounts all above firms are horrible in indices their spreads increasing significantly.
  • #15,716
  • May 17, 2023 12:17am May 17, 2023 12:17am
Stolen from prop group. FTMO warning a guy that he is using too much leverage

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Obviously he is dealing with an absurd leverage. But it's some sort of stupid to provide an enormous amount of leverage and them claiming that he is using too much of what is allowed by themselves.
  • #15,717
  • May 17, 2023 12:51am May 17, 2023 12:51am
Quoting Capablanca
Obviously he is dealing with an absurd leverage. But it's some sort of stupid to provide an enormous amount of leverage and them claiming that he is using too much of what is allowed by themselves.
-Maybe.

Although they allow that much leverage, they also dictate in their terms that such risky/gambling behavior will not be tolerated. I think that having such terms is reasonable (and wise), honestly. The problem is that such specifics need to be clearly defined, and oftentimes, they are not. We do not know the whole story, in any event, so we can only speculate about these sort of isolated occurrences.

In many cases, trading that much on a single instrument/account might seem greedy and reckless, but we really do not know the circumstances of the trading activity that led up to the notice. For all we know, he could have been trading long-term positions and scaling into profitable positions in a safe and responsible manner (doubtful). In my opinion, though, you can accumulate plenty of profit without pushing to extremes like that.

We must be honest with ourselves regarding the nature of these prop firms. Because even if they are copying a selective group of traders over, trading like this can still pose a problem for the firm. In other words, people should accept reality and not be greedy by taking more than their share of the pie.

The mention of legal recourse against a sabotage attempt is interesting though. Curious how they could even prove that.

Thanks for sharing.
  • #15,718
  • May 17, 2023 1:02am May 17, 2023 1:02am
I will add that this goes back to the fact that these firms seem to want their cake and also to eat every bit of it. They require extremes for challenge phases, but then want reasonable, responsible trading on funded... sometimes without clearly defining what is reasonable and responsible etc..

I have always agreed with the sentiment that most firms should just reduce the leverage that is being offered on these accounts. Then there would be no confusion and no extremes that could pose significant issues for the firm. You do not need much leverage in most cases, especially if the account size is large.
  • #15,719
  • May 17, 2023 1:44am May 17, 2023 1:44am
Quoting Nsak3y
I will add that this goes back to the fact that these firms seem to want their cake and also to eat every bit of it. They require extremes for challenge phases, but then want reasonable, responsible trading on funded... sometimes without clearly defining what is reasonable and responsible etc.. I have always agreed with the sentiment that most firms should just reduce the leverage that is being offered on these accounts. Then there would be no confusion and no extremes that could pose significant issues for the firm. You do not need much leverage...
And there is also some kind of hypocrisy in these firm because the success cases they present in social media are guys having huge payouts, like 50 or 100K in a 100K account, in just one month. It's obvious that this is not achieved trading 2 or 3 lots of EURUSD.

If they are worried about exposure then they should reduce leverage to 1:10 for example and/or limiting the max number of lots.
  • #15,720
  • May 17, 2023 2:05am May 17, 2023 2:05am
Quoting Capablanca
And there is also some kind of hypocrisy in these firm because the success cases they present in social media are guys having huge payouts, like 50 or 100K in a 100K account, in just one month. It's obvious that this is not achieved trading 2 or 3 lots of EURUSD. If they are worried about exposure then they should reduce leverage to 1:10 for example and/or limiting the max number of lots.
-Exactly right. If given the choice, I would prefer to have limited leverage instead of limited lots.

I think that limiting lots is too restrictive, personally, because it forces you to trade inside of a box. At least with limited leverage, you may still be able to add onto your position if you are running in profit. With lot limits, you may not be able to do that.
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