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  • #1,261
  • Apr 17, 2023 12:32am Apr 17, 2023 12:32am
Just my two cents Clemmo

First thank you for all that you have done with this thread...It is obviously appreciated by many... of course myself as well.

Second,,, These are your observations of the books thru your eyes,,, How could anyone find a problem with that ??? Is beyond me lol...

I think we should be thankful that someone here takes the time to do what you do with this thread.. I have the book...and me
being more drawn to the psychology side of books etc...I was drawn to chapter 14 I think it was ?? Anyways he made some very valuable points IMO....

But that's just my opinion amd if others disagree with that ..That's OK in my books.... The world would be boring if we al saw the same way LOL..

So anyways I just wanted to voice my support for this thread...Whether one likes your observations or not on a particular book so what!!!

Since you mentioned Liars Poker...,,,,
(and Tom Hougaard whom I highly respect has given high praise for that book and how it changed his mindset,,,,,)

Id love to see your breakdown of the book...Win Lose or Draw we can all draw our own conclusions at the end of the day and its A OK if it differs from others..

No arguing on my part for how you do,,, see and or review things

All the Best
Blue
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,262
  • Apr 17, 2023 12:39am Apr 17, 2023 12:39am
Quoting bluesteele
I have the book...and me being more drawn to the psychology side of books etc...I was drawn to chapter 14 I think it was ?? Anyways he made some very valuable points IMO....
It would be just my luck to stop before I got to the good stuff. Thanks Bluesteele!
  • #1,263
  • Apr 17, 2023 12:41am Apr 17, 2023 12:41am
Quoting clemmo17
Why do I dislike this book so much, (boy do I hate it) after being intrigued by the initial premise of the first four chapters or so?
Because promises were made, namely how to tell if a price is too high or too low, how to find the losers and their levels,

Hi clemmo,
It is sad to watch you hit a brick wall, but only you know why that is.

I have sat in silence LOL as you have now on 3 separate occasions claimed the book “promised” to tell you where the “high & low” of price is.

Of all the issues I had with the book myself hahaaa, and its use of certain word-narratives that don’t fit my own paradigms, the only thing I DID NOT EVER SEE was any promise to SHOW me or any trader where the high-low of price resides.

Maybe go back all the way to Chapter Two that you quoted, in what I believe was a misguided & then repeated statement of yours, and re-read what led you to the conclusion that a book (this book) was going to pin point high-low for you so that you would know it each & every time you looked at a chart.


I can say the thing I got from JJs book was to THINK about the market, especially other market participants & their mindsets at compression points, and find where they might be ready to either relinquish their DD trades or maybe even enter anew & far too late into the finished run (similar to those folk at the end of Tulip Mania found themselves).

And NO clemmo, pal this will not affect any discussions between us now or in the future. You would have no idea the things that have been said to me and about me since joining FF. And not one of it impacts me or any of my interactions here, why should it.

But I will guess that you will jump from one book/idea to another hoping the NEXT one will solve your needs.
When the answer to what you require is YOU.
It is YOU that has to trade NOT JUST the market but trade ‘yourself’ while you in there doing trading. Most everyone else wants an indi to do it for them, imo.


Now.
Here’s a quote from a trader who died some 80 years ago. What was he saying 80+ years ago about certain traders he encountered.
And certain traders haven't changed their behaviour too much in that time.
Not YOU clemmo, you are having a shot I can see that, but not progressing myabe, I tell folks that once you "see it" you can never NOT see it again, keep at it pal)
Wishing you all the best whatever path you choose.

.
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  • #1,264
  • Apr 17, 2023 1:15am Apr 17, 2023 1:15am
Quoting clemmo17
{quote} It would be just my luck to stop before I got to the good stuff. Thanks Bluesteele!
Hi clemmo17

I for one appreciate your "reading work" here - due to my vision I do not read as much myself anymore - I am sure a lot of people appreciate what you are doing.

Cheers / Mos.
Don't limit yourself!!
  • #1,265
  • Apr 19, 2023 10:51am Apr 19, 2023 10:51am
I would like to make a suggestion, Rob Carvers recent book: Advanced Futures Trading Strategies 30 Fully Tested Strategies for Multiple Trading Styles and Time Frames

As it is recently new it would give strategies that are valid for todays current market conditions compared to those written decades ago and on top of this Carver is well respected within our industry
  • #1,266
  • Apr 21, 2023 4:33pm Apr 21, 2023 4:33pm
Okay looks like the last book conclusion is now lost to the ages hahaa, no probs.

And the trading world no doubt would love to read into more & more Systems, Methods & Indicators.

I ask myself though if the answer for a trader is to be found IN books,
"THE answer" I mean

If so then why are there 50 more books (or a 1001 books) to read a trader might be well asking themselves.

Why are there more systems (I think there are 10,000 threads on FF here) if THE answer is in a thread
OR
Is the answer, eventually, only going to be found inside US.


We didn’t quite get through the last Book on Time Compression.
And I don’t do book reviews lol.


The pdf itself link was provided earlier by Parisboy (cheers, sir) if any are still interested to plow on.

The Final Chapters which were ahead of us were …

14. Thinking In Probabilities
- asking better questions
- developing a probability mindset
15. Using Multiple Timeframes
- market quality & potential order flow
- the urge to action
16. Topping Market
- when is a market price “too high”
- the perception of price
- what smaller traders see in a topping market
17. Bottoming Markets
- characteristics
18. Secure Uptrend & Downtrend
- how secure is the trend
- secure trands are NOT time compressed
19. Secure Range
- psychology of range
20. Conclusion
  • #1,267
  • Apr 22, 2023 4:05am Apr 22, 2023 4:05am
To clemmo17,

I'm glad you're finding the read helpful.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,268
  • Apr 23, 2023 6:25am Apr 23, 2023 6:25am
Quoting TimeTells
Okay looks like the last book conclusion is now lost to the ages hahaa, no probs. And the trading world no doubt would love to read into more & more Systems, Methods & Indicators. I ask myself though if the answer for a trader is to be found IN books, "THE answer" I mean If so then why are there 50 more books (or a 1001 books) to read a trader might be well asking themselves. Why are there more systems (I think there are 10,000 threads on FF here) if THE answer is in a thread OR Is the answer, eventually, only going to be found inside US. We didn’t...
I’m currently going through Mindset Modelling and it’s intriguing to see how just a shift in mindset can produce different interpretations when using the same model which in this case for us it would be an indicator, strategy etc
  • #1,269
  • Apr 23, 2023 6:39am Apr 23, 2023 6:39am
Quoting TimeTells
Okay looks like the last book conclusion is now lost to the ages hahaa, no probs. And the trading world no doubt would love to read into more & more Systems, Methods & Indicators. I ask myself though if the answer for a trader is to be found IN books, "THE answer" I mean If so then why are there 50 more books (or a 1001 books) to read a trader might be well asking themselves. Why are there more systems (I think there are 10,000 threads on FF here) if THE answer is in a thread OR Is the answer, eventually, only going to be found inside US. We didn’t...
you are welcome TT
  • #1,270
  • Apr 23, 2023 5:44pm Apr 23, 2023 5:44pm
Quoting a3trader
{quote}
I’m currently going through Mindset Modelling and it’s intriguing to see how just a shift in mindset can produce different interpretations when using the same model which in this case for us it would be an indicator, strategy etc

Hi a3, a big topic for sure. I believe we should try (just imho only) and first grasp the 'reality' of the market in its fullest concept.

Then rather than our interpretations we could actually just watch 'what' the market does and then trade with it.
If doing that as a base, then really 'any' system or indi etc (that would likely produce about a 50/50 result on its own anyway) can be pushed into a greater probability by now using OURSELVES as the core operator.

Long topic hahaaa, all the best.
  • #1,271
  • Apr 23, 2023 6:02pm Apr 23, 2023 6:02pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi a3, a big topic for sure. I believe we should try (just imho only) and first grasp the 'reality' of the market in its fullest concept. Then rather than our interpretations we could actually just watch 'what' the market does and then trade with it. If doing that as a base, then really 'any' system or indi etc (that would likely produce about a 50/50 result on its own anyway) can be pushed into a greater probability by now using OURSELVES as the core operator. Long topic hahaaa, all the best.
very well said!
without patience how can you be a trader?
  • #1,272
  • Apr 25, 2023 6:40am Apr 25, 2023 6:40am
Quoting PeterCaleb
... I have no incentive to speak of these. Merely to point to the obvious and enormous gap in most people's general knowledge and understanding. As I read (past tense) through each page of this thread, I saw there are many erroneous understandings written but I don't know if anyone cares, or wants to discuss at all. I'll leave it to the thread starter and other people. Anyway .... interesting. Peter
... of researching a bio for example. Extinction rebellion anarchist (?) wrote a book.
  • #1,273
  • Apr 25, 2023 9:12pm Apr 25, 2023 9:12pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi a3, a big topic for sure. I believe we should try (just imho only) and first grasp the 'reality' of the market in its fullest concept. Then rather than our interpretations we could actually just watch 'what' the market does and then trade with it. If doing that as a base, then really 'any' system or indi etc (that would likely produce about a 50/50 result on its own anyway) can be pushed into a greater probability by now using OURSELVES as the core operator. Long topic hahaaa, all the best.
A person might say you have that backwards a bit there.

"If I remove all of your brain plus brain stem, how much thinking will occur in and of itself vs any purposeful arrangement and process?"

A rotted and 'twisted in knots' mind can never find its way to see more than what it has been trained and taught to do and see. Therefore, no amount of just watching a market alone, is enough to untangle what a person's past living and existing has created. It is partly, the whole point of why I started that Objective Thinking thread. Not advertising it, I'm just saying that people 'of society' are always trained to circumvent step 1. Not only in areas of trading but all areas of their life. Then after some time has passed, they begin to wonder why things are not working as expected. At this point they blame themself, the market, broker and anything or anyone else they can find.

I concur that just observing a market you trade is a good sign of someone who will learn more. But the actual process of transmission of human activity, BEFORE any intervention or reaction, needs to be well appreciated. THIS is part of the problem with these sites, they are not only to socialize. They also "teach people" how to operate and respond to different systems of interaction. EG - "Thumbs up/down", agreeing with someone merely based on how you "feel" about that persona etc. People can dismiss all of this but they will never do much better than they are now. Plus, any full circle learning that is available to the person, is lost if they need/want to/ have to do something else in their real life. Therefore any sub-skills or foundation knowledge etc can never become transferable. I hope people now understand the importance of tracking the process properly, instead of trying to take shortcuts.

There must be a clean engine under the hood before you take that long road trip. Laziness is not an option when your own safety is involved.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,274
  • Apr 25, 2023 9:18pm Apr 25, 2023 9:18pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
{quote} ... of researching a bio for example. Extinction rebellion anarchist (?) wrote a book.
If I'm reading this correctly I'll say this - of Life, people, human history up to the present, all done with an objective position. For me I was motivated enough to investigate, but many want the "short version" but ...... when one tries to give that short version to people, they condemn it as being "too simplistic". So a type of insanity runs rampant. But please read those two I suggested, it may kickstart other lines of inquiry.

Of course if I have misread what you were meaning then please expand.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,275
  • Apr 25, 2023 10:45pm Apr 25, 2023 10:45pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote}
There must be a clean engine under the hood before you take that long road trip.

Fair enough.
  • #1,276
  • Apr 30, 2023 8:36am Apr 30, 2023 8:36am
Quoting clemmo17
CFDs Commissions tend to be high relative to contract sizes. Bid-ask spreads are controlled by CFD issuers, who also control prices of contracts, which may deviate from prices of the underlying securities. In other words, a retail customer plays against a professional team that can move the goal posts during the game. with CFDs you are not just trying to beat the market but the casino too. CFD providers can set whatever prices they like for an instrument, as it is their instrument. The fact that sometimes it emulates what happens in the stock market...
Brokers must be forced to publish this, not the percentage of retail client accounts losing money.

clemmo17 President
My English is poor and i lost 15 minutes looking for the best way to say Thank You, this is what i come up with..
  • #1,277
  • Edited 11:10am May 6, 2023 10:57am | Edited 11:10am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} If I'm reading this correctly I'll say this - of Life, people, human history up to the present, all done with an objective position. For me I was motivated enough to investigate, but many want the "short version" but ...... when one tries to give that short version to people, they condemn it as being "too simplistic". So a type of insanity runs rampant. But please read those two I suggested, it may kickstart other lines of inquiry. Of course if I have misread what you were meaning then please expand. Peter
No major point Peter, but if a book is part of an objective investigation on a topic, or let's say, reality, then the author should undergo a complete analysis as well. That's all. Then that leads to how the book came about and by whom and for what agenda. It's highly likely everything is not a coincidence which would be a necessary thought when being objective I would think. With thousands of books published yearly who has the time to read the bestseller list, the censored, the worst, the not so known, the unpublished....?
Cheers...
...........................................

Thanks Clemmo for all of your work. I share your frustrations with the time compression one, but also see the good in it like TT sees.
Cheers...
  • #1,278
  • May 6, 2023 10:14pm May 6, 2023 10:14pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
{quote} No major point Peter, but if a book is part of an objective investigation on a topic, or let's say, reality, then the author should undergo a complete analysis as well. That's all. Then that leads to how the book came about and by whom and for what agenda. It's highly likely everything is not a coincidence which would be a necessary thought when being objective I would think. With thousands of books published yearly who has the time to read the bestseller list, the censored, the worst, the not so known, the unpublished....? Cheers... ..............................................
Of course yes I understand what you're referring to. Yes many good points. To me, it all comes down to priorities and the exchange of opinion and information for something more full. People would be surprised how much "time" they have at their disposal each and every day vs how much they waste. I say waste but really it's when "time" is drawn toward other interests or "pre-chosen priorities". To me when people really 'should' be placing greater emphasis on something but choose to refrain from or don't see it as important enough, then they "use/abuse time" in substandard ways. And to some this may seem judgmental and I guess it is in some ways, but this is why I have posted around that pic of Natural Objective. To give people a starting point to build a foundation to aid as a type of compass. So it may not always be necessary to read every single book ever published. After living in specific ways, you gain a type of gut instinct for these things. And then, you can arrange your time to meet the needs to learn. And sometimes you'll find many instances of repetition of detail or publishing. But in my experience, if a person has no foundation type compass, then they will meander forever. Never really learning anything.

And so, yes, the author requires a look at. And again, it becomes a question of priorities. Is the 'mission' of one's energy to flush out liars or time wasters, or is the mind seen as a great tool .... as a fluid repository for learning? It's the same question and basis for argument re: trading. Seek out liars or scammers or learn? I mean REALLY learn. People don't usually use their minds well. They store info but do not prioritize WHY they seek to learn something.

So the real question is - Get or Learn ? This is the quandary for each person breathing in this century.

The concept of "throw away what doesn't work for you and keep what works" is not only a marketing lie but a farce to even attempt. It is an impossibility. Life just doesn't work like that. And so the argument of "simple but wholly truthful' vs "simple for the simplicity of being simple/easy" now rises to the surface.

So this is why people's idea of 'objective' can be very faulty or troubling. It must include everything (preferably without insignificant repetition) as that is what the situation is, in its full view ...... every ingredient surveyed while including all opinions, judgments and biases/prejudices. The good the bad the ugly and the forgotten or overlooked. Unlike textbook referencing type or style teaching and learning, which is a very selective style of transforming information, real learning must be approached in full IN SPITE of discomfort or apparent opinions.

(Same goes for time compressions in trading etc. But that is another discussion all together that I am happy to engage with people to share what I have learned but only IF people are interested in learning.)

It all must be approached to find out rather than merely 'find out what happens at the end of the story'.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,279
  • May 12, 2023 3:58am May 12, 2023 3:58am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} So the real question is - Get or Learn ? This is the quandary for each person breathing in this century. The concept of "throw away what doesn't work for you and keep what works" is not only a marketing lie but a farce to even attempt. It is an impossibility. Life just doesn't work like that. And so the argument of "simple but wholly truthful' vs "simple for the simplicity of being simple/easy" now rises to the surface. So this is why people's idea of 'objective' can be very faulty or troubling. It must include everything (preferably without...
Good points Peter.

I would be interested to learn what you have learned about time compressions as you see it. Is that something you could share on your threads perhaps?
  • #1,280
  • Edited 10:28pm May 12, 2023 10:14pm | Edited 10:28pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
{quote} Good points Peter. I would be interested to learn what you have learned about time compressions as you see it. Is that something you could share on your threads perhaps?
Sure. But I'll do it here for everyone's convenience.

Ever heard the idea - If someone earns $20,000.00 per year for 50 years, they can say they've earned $1,000,000,00 ? Naturally without considering taxes etc. Although a rather basic idea, the premise is linked in with Time as an "affordable and expendable currency or tool ..... or weapon". Hehehe and I suppose that person can brag to his mates about earning a million bucks.

Time is a conduit. It's why people have the assumption of how to define "consistent trading" ... it's also coupled with the compounding of interest. If no interest component, then it's just money-to-money (or thing to thing) so there's no extra overlap of "money's use and time used". It's partly why one currency is "usually" greater than another. It's why "within every small space sits every subject and the active collaboration between those subjects".

So yes MTF compression OR .... mere alignment. "If the Daily is down 4-5 stages and continuing on (In time, a stage is high wick / low wick / body of activity between agreed open and close) within a single week, then ALL LTF's must follow. Why? Not charts of time but reduction of 'usefulness'. This is why I suggest to people to think of their trading as a conveyor belt. NOT a robotic act but the use of overlapped time. In "normal life' we would call it 'multi-tasking'.

Then there's the balance of tools. Time being a tool. To say "each person has the same 24hrs to do everything for their day" is pure misnomer. Why? For some places on Earth they experience zero dark for long periods of "time" and it also stands, that there are places on Earth that experience the invert of this - No light for extended periods of ..... ? ..... you guessed it, "time". So time as we know it, as a physical creature, or, as we know it intellectually, are mere perspectives and assumptions. Ever tried to do work after 3 or 4 sleepless nights? Brain stops working properly, as well as other things "malfunctioning". So time affects us in these ways just as money "uses" time and is affected in quite the same and similar ways. Now, IF, people start to really consider the implications of all this, you may start to appreciate why there has been a push for "global" everything. There are some centres around the world that have natural advantages because of longitude latitude locations. They are affected by "time" in different ways.

The collaboration of Time with energy. "Time is money". If a person believes something so deeply, then they are making a type of contract with that belief. Eg. - the idea that one has to work really hard for years to then retire and live off money earned or saved or paid to them in retirement. And so this contract cannot be broken because the belief would also be broken. And since most people are afraid of change (but at a certain level assume all change is the same) because they don't understand how it works, they don't want to break the contract. They don't see that the assumption is the premise TO the belief contract. "Time" is now seen as a useful tool to break the assumption. Most people, somewhere in their past have performed multi-tasking. So we know we're all capable of it. This is just 1 example. There are many more.

Hyper-focusing and the abuse of "Time". For most of us we have wants. Ambitions. Desire to achieve. An easy strategy for any beginner trader is layered time. But many people have many really bad ideas of time frames. If you ARE the one DOING something, then you are there for the planning, organizing and then the active participation. And at the end you have an outcome .... an ending. If you use "Time" as a compass for usefulness instead of obsessing over which TF is better or best etc, then you can see collaboration. And once you see this, "Time" becomes a tool for seeing value OF "Time". Unfortunately, IF I said to people that money is a VERY poor compass for value, most might wonder what I mean. Since money is a made up thing, (In real life it doesn't actually exist) a belief contract must be placed on the idea, idea = money. Within this contract one agrees to honor its agreed value. But in a contractual agreement like this, there must be at least 2 parties involvement...2 signatories. But this has nothing to do with whether both parties are "happy" with the stated and assigned value. So you may have heavy-handedness involved or perhaps what some call "bullying". If you look at the currency exchanges of some of the non-G7 countries that may be considered 2nd or 3rd world economies, you will quickly see this heavy-handedness or bullying. What has this got to do with "Time"? It is assumed that a major currency maker is producing more valuable "Time" and therefore its expected and quoted "value" i.e. priced currency, is also more valuable. To more fully comprehend this, you must look beyond commerce and trade. You need to see that hyper focusing relates not only to overt stockpile creation and market valuations, but also to "Time spent". So the old adage now comes into play - "What is your time worth?" To a trader who seeks to generate profits that then translate into "money", to be used for "living", "time is of the essence". And then comes the weighing up of which plan to implement and why. This is partly why money should not be "the reason" why you trade. It creates an upside down view on reality.

I'll stop there so people can read and ponder. There is more but start there.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
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