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  • #15,441
  • May 2, 2023 11:47am May 2, 2023 11:47am
Quoting Takisd
Contracts protect the employer sir, which was the point I was making.
-I understand. But most firms have you agree to their terms at some point. I guess my point about it is to not get too hung up on having a signed contract in place. Maybe I am wrong, but it just does not seem overly necessary.
  • #15,442
  • May 2, 2023 11:13pm May 2, 2023 11:13pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} To me the main criteria to chose a prop is reliability. This comes well above trading conditions, targets, daily loss, etc. No point is having something good in "paper" if at the end they don't pay or invent rules to deduct profits or wahtsoever. Therefore, FTMO and MFF come miles away from competition, without discussion. There's only one place left to pick from the remaining. Me, personally, I would add TFT or E8. TFF would be a close call but I don't like the two episodes we saw recently. Again, I'm just focusing in reliability (my personal...
Most don't like the 5ERS programs but they've been in the game longer than most and are squeaky clean as far as reliability.

I also would say City Traders Imperium has been extremely reliable
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,443
  • May 2, 2023 11:34pm May 2, 2023 11:34pm
Got this in one of the many emails that TFT spams me with daily
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: funded.jpg Size: 186 KB
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,444
  • May 3, 2023 5:39am May 3, 2023 5:39am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} To me the main criteria to chose a prop is reliability. This comes well above trading conditions, targets, daily loss, etc. No point is having something good in "paper" if at the end they don't pay or invent rules to deduct profits or wahtsoever. Therefore, FTMO and MFF come miles away from competition, without discussion. There's only one place left to pick from the remaining. Me, personally, I would add TFT or E8. TFF would be a close call but I don't like the two episodes we saw recently. Again, I'm just focusing in reliability (my personal...
And don't forget Top Tier Trader too, they have been around a long time and not heard anything majorly bad about them...
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #15,445
  • May 3, 2023 7:29am May 3, 2023 7:29am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Most don't like the 5ERS programs but they've been in the game longer than most and are squeaky clean as far as reliability. I also would say City Traders Imperium has been extremely reliable
Quoting nebby
{quote} And don't forget Top Tier Trader too, they have been around a long time and not heard anything majorly bad about them...
I agree that 5ers is around for a long time and, apparently, not much fuss about it. It' my personal choice, as I mentioned, and reason for not including it it simple: they only have 100K challenges, max.
City Taders Imperium I know nothing about them. Thanks for noting it (anyway to me it's out because they only have 100K challenges).

Top Tier I can't remember why I never considered them. I guess it's because of some post of Takisd that I read long time ago.

What's your experience with them ? Funded ? Paid by them ? I always searching for some new tests for my basket, even if they sound riskier.
  • #15,446
  • Edited 9:04am May 3, 2023 8:07am | Edited 9:04am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} {quote} I agree that 5ers is around for a long time and, apparently, not much fuss about it. It' my personal choice, as I mentioned, and reason for not including it it simple: they only have 100K challenges, max. City Taders Imperium I know nothing about them. Thanks for noting it (anyway to me it's out because they only have 100K challenges). Top Tier I can't remember why I never considered them. I guess it's because of some post of Takisd that I read long time...
Thanks for the link to that old post, its useful to know that one of the reasons behind why folks are avoiding this firm is due to the reputation of Cuebanks Quillan and also the firms trustpilot manipulation allegations. I shall certainly look into that further.

I am currently on a challenge with them (no problem so far) and will report back my experience after getting funded.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #15,447
  • May 3, 2023 10:29am May 3, 2023 10:29am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} {quote}Top Tier I can't remember why I never considered them.
I did consider them for a few moments. But I put them on my no choice list soon due to using Vital Markets as their broker (expensive, no experience), very limited lot size regardless of the account size and not offering MT5
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,448
  • Edited 12:01pm May 3, 2023 10:43am | Edited 12:01pm
Inserted Video


What's your opinion on the above discussion on regulatory action & prop firm slippage?
  • #15,449
  • May 3, 2023 12:45pm May 3, 2023 12:45pm
Quoting CableJ
What's your opinion on the above discussion on regulatory action & prop firm slippage?
-I think that most of what is being discussed here is known and is already understood by many traders here (I cannot speak for discord groups). I will say that his perspective seems a little naive by saying "it's a game, basically, right... it's a video game that you guys are paying for", because it is not just game, and will likely not be perceived as such by regulatory groups.

Even if a firm could argue that it's not a ponzi, it is still just another form of online gambling, and when you are offering such services to US citizens, then you will be required to comply with all of the nonsense that goes along with that, or else cease operations at best.
  • #15,450
  • May 3, 2023 12:55pm May 3, 2023 12:55pm
Quoting CableJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStbjs50rVw&t=1950s What's your opinion on the above discussion on regulatory action & prop firm slippage?
I think the main risk for US companies is that regulators wake up one day thinking that these guys should obey to this and that and shut down their operations overnight. Basically like what happened to poker which was also overnight. There may be signals but things can happen overnight. Would not be the first industry or company.
And in that case our accounts are done and we won't even get any profit payout because the stream of cash inflow will stop for them.

In resume, what TPT faked for Australia could very well happen in US for real.
  • #15,451
  • May 3, 2023 1:02pm May 3, 2023 1:02pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I think the main risk for US companies is that regulators wake up one day thinking that these guys should obey to this and that and shut down their operations overnight. Basically like what happened to poker which was also overnight. There may be signals but things can happen overnight. Would not be the first industry or company. And in that case our accounts are done and we won't even get any profit payout because the stream of cash inflow will stop for them. In resume, what TPT faked for Australia could very well happen in US for real....
Yes, I remember the poker fiasco. I used to multi table up to 20 tables.....made a very good side income. It was actually the shut down of poker that led me to forex.
  • #15,452
  • May 3, 2023 1:09pm May 3, 2023 1:09pm
So, Angelo from TFT is explaining at 34:30 that there is a US entity that charges the challenges and that's a videogame. Then the funded accounts are signed with Cayman islands and they can do whatever they want.
  • #15,453
  • May 3, 2023 1:22pm May 3, 2023 1:22pm
Quoting Capablanca
So, Angelo from TFT is explaining at 34:30 that there is a US entity that charges the challenges and that's a videogame. Then the funded accounts are signed with Cayman islands and they can do whatever they want.
-Yes, and that's my point. It's not just a video game and likely will not be perceived as such.

I think, making the decision to set up shop inside the US was unwise; it just creates too much exposure and allows for full-access of data. Perhaps they believed that it would give them more credibility and therefore attract more business. But the downsides must be heavily considered... not just in terms of regulatory compliance for the firm, but for the future of the remote prop industry.

Offshore is the answer.

Maybe, one day, things will change enough in the US that this will not be the case, but I am too cynical (and realistic) to believe that it will ever happen in my lifetime.
  • #15,454
  • May 3, 2023 2:11pm May 3, 2023 2:11pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, and that's my point. It's not just a video game and likely will not be perceived as such. I think, making the decision to set up shop inside the US was unwise; it just creates too much exposure and allows for full-access of data. Perhaps they believed that it would give them more credibility and therefore attract more business. But the downsides must be heavily considered... not just in terms of regulatory compliance for the firm, but for the future of the remote prop industry. Offshore is the answer. Maybe, one day, things will change...
No way things will change in the US. Never. Our government is so corrupt it is beyond repair at this point. Laws passed overnight by simply adding verbage to existing UNRELATED bills. Lobbyists paying off politicians to get things done. Complete joke here. As far as financial markets, the big boys running the futures market are in charge. Period. Every law and regulation is geared toward their benefit.
  • #15,455
  • May 3, 2023 2:36pm May 3, 2023 2:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
No way things will change in the US. Never.
-Hopefully, you are wrong... but, I would not bet against you on it.

I tend to try to avoid saying 'never' in most cases, just as a general rule. I see that some states have since passed laws allowing online gambling in some form. I expect that the US will likely continue moving in the direction in which most things happen and are governed at the state level. I expect to see more political division in terms of states identifying as red or blue. As such, I can foresee a future where some states may allow certain things while others do not. At one point, weed was illegal in all states until it was realized how profitable it can be to allow it.
  • #15,456
  • May 3, 2023 3:29pm May 3, 2023 3:29pm
I wonder what's the reason for having 1 set of conditions in phase 1 then more realistic conditions in phase 2?!?!?!? Why not just have realistic conditions at all times period?
  • #15,457
  • May 3, 2023 3:49pm May 3, 2023 3:49pm
Quoting CableJ
I wonder what's the reason for having 1 set of conditions in phase 1 then more realistic conditions in phase 2?!?!?!? Why not just have realistic conditions at all times period?
-Fair point. I think, for firms that do this, there are a few things that immediately come to mind (objectively speaking):

1. Having demo conditions for phase-1, which is the more difficult phase, would make things easier for traders, which could be advantageous.

2. Making the first phase easier could create a false sense of confidence, which is double-edged. On the one hand, the trader might do better on phase-2, but the trader might also do worse. On the other hand, it gives newbie traders a taste of success so that they keep coming back (and paying), even though they might not yet be ready.

3. This creates a climate where you end up with loads of newbies complaining on discord because they ended up getting slipped out of nowhere on phase-2.

If you ask me, I think conditions should be the same across the board, and should be as realistic (but reasonable) as possible. I say reasonable, because if a firm is simulating everything, then maybe they also have a choice in how much liquidity they are simulating.
  • #15,458
  • May 4, 2023 6:06am May 4, 2023 6:06am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, and that's my point. It's not just a video game and likely will not be perceived as such.
For me, as a customer (no, I never considered me to be a contractor), this has never been anything else then a betting or video game. All the nonsense they put is their "contracts" (which some even gave up on using lately) is irrelevant when you think about what you actually do, and what they admit they actually do.

What you, as a trader, do is just playing a sort of game of trading. With an artificial price feed, artificial trading conditions, unrealistic behavior of what should be your trading terminal. Results of your actions are lost in the air. They are never executed on a real market. And if they are, it's not because you entered the order, but because THE PROP FIRM DECIDED to do something SIMILAR (or slightly different, or even opposite) on their behalf. They don't pay you for providing any service (as they try to pretend) but for your wins. And not even for all wins. Just for those they decide you deserve. Like in the casino. They think you don't deserve your win and you're out of luck.

This has nothing to do with trading, or even with a consultancy job. Using Deel for your payouts is just another desperate way of camouflaging it. This is only a game. A betting, or a videogame, or a trading game. That's how I tax it in my home country as well. Because that's what it really is. :-)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,459
  • May 4, 2023 9:17am May 4, 2023 9:17am
Quoting Vitore
For me, as a customer (no, I never considered me to be a contractor), this has never been anything else then a betting or video game.
-My entire point was that it is more than just a game. It is gambling. Period. As such, it will be a prime target for regulators and enforcement groups.
  • #15,460
  • May 4, 2023 9:45am May 4, 2023 9:45am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-My entire point was that it is more than just a game. It is gambling. Period. As such, it will be a prime target for regulators and enforcement groups.
I see. Then I agree of course
Money is made by sitting, not trading
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