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  • #15,341
  • Apr 24, 2023 9:07am Apr 24, 2023 9:07am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} most of them do not accept US traders. And the higher leverage you get, when you use it all for trading, the automatic stop-out process triggers relatively soon so from the $100 balance for example you may freely use e.g. $10-20 until the stop-out process starts liquidating your positions. So from you personal $100 account you can basically use about those $10-20 only. For US traders you either get very low leverage, so you cannot compete to instant funding due to low margin, or you somehow get high leverage, use it fully, but then you are...
Correct. My point is and has been that you just cannot say that take what ever the cost of the challenge is and trade it the same way on your own account as on the prop firm account. Then your own account miraculously converts from $700 to 2.5M making any prop challenge performing worse than your own account. Since that claim is false because the equity usage is limited on your own account, all claims and comparisons presented here which are based on the equity being equal are false. That's why have also said that compare different type of prop accounts with each other not with your own funds.
  • #15,342
  • Apr 24, 2023 10:39am Apr 24, 2023 10:39am
Guys, I calculated the comparison of a prop firm of instant financing 5ears and opening an account with a broker

1200 + (166%)2000 - pay 50% = 1000 $
2400 + (166%)4000 75% = 3000$
4800 + 8000 75% = 6000$
9600 + 16000 75% = 12000$
19200 +32000 =24000$
38400 +64000 =48000$
76800 +128000 = 96000$


broker
850$ + (166%)1411 = 2261 widrawr -1000$
1261 + (166%)2093 = 3354 widrawr -3000$
354$ broker acc??????

and where do you see the benefit of trading from your account? there is no benefit.
  • #15,343
  • Apr 24, 2023 11:37am Apr 24, 2023 11:37am
Quoting wantedpvp
Guys, I calculated the comparison of a prop firm of instant financing 5ears and opening an account with a broker 1200 + (166%)2000 - pay 50% = 1000 $ 2400 + (166%)4000 75% = 3000$ 4800 + 8000 75% = 6000$ 9600 + 16000 75% = 12000$ 19200 +32000 =24000$ 38400 +64000 =48000$ 76800 +128000 = 96000$ broker 850$ + (166%)1411 = 2261 widrawr -1000$ 1261 + (166%)2093 = 3354 widrawr -3000$ 354$ broker acc?????? and where do you see the benefit of trading from your account? there is no benefit.
Of course not. You should trade your own funds pretty much with the same risk settings as a prop firm account depending on your risk endurance. I max my risk to about 10-15% on my personal accounts.

Instant funding has here been claimed to be the biggest prop firm scam. In reality the biggest scam are the 2-step 30-day limit challenges which some 95% of traders failing. There are people who can try tens of times to pass those type of challenges losing a lot of money. The good thing is that we are now on the way to more client friendly prop accounts. Interesting times ahead.
  • #15,344
  • Apr 24, 2023 11:48am Apr 24, 2023 11:48am
From My Funded Fx (MFFx) discord:

Quote
Our maximum capital allocation has increased to $600K. You may have any number of accounts you want
1. Max capital 300K for 2-step
2.Max capital 300K for 1-step
Combined 600K maximum
We will be updating the website and FAQs this afternoon but you are not free to purchase up to 600K

They increased max capital to 600K but apparently it's a combination of 1 and 2 step (300K each).
If I remember well 1 step challenge has a trailing DD so this change doesn't seem interesting.
  • #15,345
  • Apr 24, 2023 11:50am Apr 24, 2023 11:50am
Quoting wantedpvp
Guys, I calculated the comparison of a prop firm of instant financing 5ears and opening an account with a broker ... and where do you see the benefit of trading from your account? there is no benefit.
-My math may be off, but something like this:

Inserted Code
1200 (2000 TARGET) WITH 50% SPLIT = 1K PROFIT
2400 (4000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 3K PROFIT
4800 (8000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 6K PROFIT
9600 (16000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 12K PROFIT
19200 (32000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 24K PROFIT
38400 (64000 TARGET) WITH 80% SPLIT = 51.2K PROFIT
76800 (128000 TARGET) WITH 100% SPLIT = 128000K PROFIT
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL = $225,200 IN POCKET AND $0 TO WITHDRAW FROM ACCOUNT


Inserted Code
850 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 2266.666661 ACCOUNT BALANCE
2266.666661 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 3777.776257222226 ACCOUNT BALANCE
3777.776257222226 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 10074.06750074176 ACCOUNT BALANCE
10074.06750074176 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 26864.17328593303 ACCOUNT BALANCE
26864.17328593303 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 71637.77751970588 ACCOUNT BALANCE
71637.77751970588 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 191034.025627364 ACCOUNT BALANCE
191034.025627364 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT = 509423.9409836203 ACCOUNT BALANCE
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL = $509,423.9409836203 IN ACCOUNT (100% YOUR MONEY)
WITHDRAW 50% = $254,711.9704918101 IN POCKET AND $254,711.9704918101 TO WITHDRAW FROM ACCOUNT

Most people are not going to flip an account this many times in a row without going bust. Although the instant may offer benefits early on, the long-term benefits are better with a personal account.

The risk can be 0 for both methods. With instant, you must flip your buy-in fee at least once in order to get your money out and be risk-free. Same with personal... you can withdraw your buy-in fee anytime after flipping it along the way and be trading risk-free.
  • #15,346
  • Apr 24, 2023 12:20pm Apr 24, 2023 12:20pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote}Instant funding has here been claimed to be the biggest prop firm scam. In reality the biggest scam are the 2-step 30-day limit challenges which some 95% of traders failing. There are people who can try tens of times to pass those type of challenges losing a lot of money. The good thing is that we are now on the way to more client friendly prop accounts. Interesting times ahead.
Neither one is a scam imo. But each has it's own specific which can make each of them a trap for the trader. In case of instant account it depends on the account size, leverage and the stop-out level. If you get decent account parameters personal would be better. In case of 2-phase it mostly depends on the trader's ability to pass the challenge with his strategy. Then it can offer way more than any personal account would (for the same money invested). IMHO
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,347
  • Apr 24, 2023 12:24pm Apr 24, 2023 12:24pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-My math may be off, but something like this: 1200 (2000 TARGET) WITH 50% SPLIT = 1K PROFIT 2400 (4000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 3K PROFIT 4800 (8000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 6K PROFIT 9600 (16000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 12K PROFIT 19200 (32000 TARGET) WITH 75% SPLIT = 24K PROFIT 38400 (64000 TARGET) WITH 80% SPLIT = 51.2K PROFIT 76800 (128000 TARGET) WITH 100% SPLIT = 128000K PROFIT --------------------------------------------------------- TOTAL = $225,200 IN POCKET AND $0 TO WITHDRAW FROM ACCOUNT 850 + (166.6666666 % TARGET) WITH 0 SPLIT...
Besides math, there's another factor which we can't convert in numbers.

A broker can go bust, no doubt about that, but if we chose one long time in the market I think the risk is considerable less than a prop, even a established one.
Furthermore, a prop can changes rules at any time or "invent" violations to deny payment. Established brokers are less likely to screw you, even if they are Bbook. And there are no rules changing (it's buy and sell, not much more than that).
  • #15,348
  • Apr 24, 2023 12:40pm Apr 24, 2023 12:40pm
Quoting Capablanca
Besides math, there's another factor which we can't convert in numbers. A broker can go bust, no doubt about that, but if we chose one long time in the market I think the risk is considerable less than a prop, even a established one.
-And easier to mitigate risk by spreading funds out across multiple brokers.

Quoting Vitore
Neither one is a scam imo. But each has it's own specific which can make each of them a trap for the trader.
-Yes. Some methods offer more value than others and can be structured in different ways, also.
  • #15,349
  • Apr 24, 2023 12:43pm Apr 24, 2023 12:43pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Neither one is a scam imo. But each has it's own specific which can make each of them a trap for the trader. In case of instant account it depends on the account size, leverage and the stop-out level. If you get decent account parameters personal would be better. In case of 2-phase it mostly depends on the trader's ability to pass the challenge with his strategy. Then it can offer way more than any personal account would (for the same money invested). IMHO
Your odds are extremely poor with the 30/60-day challenges. It's something like 1-2% who actually pass and get the first withdrawal. Some Instant funded accounts have also so poor terms that they are useless. If you limit your risk to a normal levels on your personal account, it will be hard to compete with funded accounts. I was many years in broker business and never saw any trader to turn their accounts from small to hundreds of thousands. Almost everyone eventually lose most if not all of their equity. Using a prop will at least allow you to keep your profits in case a black swan event or some simple trading mistake.
  • #15,350
  • Apr 24, 2023 12:50pm Apr 24, 2023 12:50pm
Quoting TraderTero
Using a prop will at least allow you to keep your profits in case a black swan event or some simple trading mistake.
-Maybe. But trading with prop has rules and draw-down limits that can cause you to lose everything much faster than it would if you were trading your own account. Pros and cons to each. Both can be traded risk-free, though.
  • #15,351
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:03pm Apr 24, 2023 1:03pm
Quoting Capablanca
From My Funded Fx (MFFx) discord: {quote} They increased max capital to 600K but apparently it's a combination of 1 and 2 step (300K each). If I remember well 1 step challenge has a trailing DD so this change doesn't seem interesting.
ok updated. this mean you can merge up to 2x300K accounts
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,352
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:12pm Apr 24, 2023 1:12pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe. But trading with prop has rules and draw-down limits that can cause you to lose everything much faster than it would if you were trading your own account. Pros and cons to each. Both can be traded risk-free, though.
The good thing with props is that they teach/force you to trade with proper risk. Most people fail because of poor risk management and that's why you should pretty much trade your own account with similar settings as the prop account.

There is no simple answer to which solution or account type is the best as so much depends on your strategy and your risk appetite.
  • #15,353
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:24pm Apr 24, 2023 1:24pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Your odds are extremely poor with the 30/60-day challenges. It's something like 1-2% who actually pass and get the first withdrawal. Some Instant funded accounts have also so poor terms that they are useless. If you limit your risk to a normal levels on your personal account, it will be hard to compete with funded accounts. I was many years in broker business and never saw any trader to turn their accounts from small to hundreds of thousands. Almost everyone eventually lose most if not all of their equity. Using a prop will at least allow...
It's not because it is so difficult but because 90%+ of applicants are not traders. They don't even know how to place a trade in MT4 or what the stop loss is. Give them a personal account and they burn it in a few hours. Statistic based on prop firm challenge pass data is anything but representative of the real traders' capabilities.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,354
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:27pm Apr 24, 2023 1:27pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} The good thing with props is that they teach/force you to trade with proper risk. Most people fail because of poor risk management
I can subscribe that
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,355
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:32pm Apr 24, 2023 1:32pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} It's not because it is so difficult but because 90%+ of applicants are not traders. They don't even know how to place a trade in MT4 or what the stop loss is. Give them a personal account and they burn it in a few hours. Statistic based on prop firm challenge pass data is anything but representative of the real traders' capabilities.
In my books nothing but gambling but for sure there is a big number of poor traders but the 30-day limit will make people lose much faster than they normally would. I think we all know that.
  • #15,356
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:57pm Apr 24, 2023 1:57pm
MFFX:

ANOTHER MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT
Tomorrow our new withdraw feature goes LIVE
After submitting a withdraw request, you will instantly receive a reset funded account and can continue trading right away while waiting for the deposit.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,357
  • Apr 24, 2023 3:25pm Apr 24, 2023 3:25pm
Eightcrap is down again. Can't wait to see if MFFX announces the new broker tomorrow; waiting to hear the news before buying an account.
  • #15,358
  • Apr 24, 2023 4:52pm Apr 24, 2023 4:52pm
Quoting AaronPriest
Eightcrap is down again. Can't wait to see if MFFX announces the new broker tomorrow; waiting to hear the news before buying an account.
My accounts on demo servers (challenges) were down but on live (funded) were working
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,359
  • Apr 24, 2023 6:00pm Apr 24, 2023 6:00pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} My accounts on demo servers (challenges) were down but on live (funded) were working
yes, my TFTP live worked fine all day.
  • #15,360
  • Apr 24, 2023 6:14pm Apr 24, 2023 6:14pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} They buy an OOTB solution from fpfx. Dashboard, eightcap, deel. Legitimacy of buying not checked and scams like firstclassforexfunds etc appear.
If I read this correctly, you are saying that FPFX - Forest Park FX (Justin Hertzberg sp?) - is behind how so many of these new prop firms are put together? If this is the case, wow.
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