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  • #15,201
  • Apr 21, 2023 4:40pm Apr 21, 2023 4:40pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I'm still not so sure about the rule. The guy assumes the rule applies irrespective of the instrument traded (from the question it is not clear based on what he assumes so) The CEO neither confirms nor denies that assumption. He only states that the rule might be removed (completely?). Such as if he didn't want reveal the actual scope of the rule? Anyways, thanks for bringing up this topic. I asked Kaler for clarification. Let's see if he responds.
The way the guys asks seems to me that is someone who already checked this and the CEO doesn't seem to deny. That's how I read it.

Let's see. Would be great if you could share when you get an answer.
  • #15,202
  • Apr 21, 2023 9:05pm Apr 21, 2023 9:05pm
Traders with Edge switching to 8cap. The 8cap prop firm orgy continues...........

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post14402909
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #15,203
  • Apr 22, 2023 1:07am Apr 22, 2023 1:07am
Quoting Expo33
Traders with Edge switching to 8cap.
-This is a bit unfortunate. Thanks for sharing.
  • #15,204
  • Apr 22, 2023 2:00am Apr 22, 2023 2:00am
What is a good propfirm for swing traders, preferably a broker that doesn't have time limit or something more than a month?
  • #15,205
  • Apr 22, 2023 7:34am Apr 22, 2023 7:34am
Quoting KoyaAndy18
What is a good propfirm for swing traders, preferably a broker that doesn't have time limit or something more than a month?
City Traders Imperium just removed the time limit, max stop loss % per position, minimum active trading days, and trailing drawdown for their instant accounts. This now makes them one of the best instant funding programs in my opinion.
  • #15,206
  • Apr 22, 2023 7:50am Apr 22, 2023 7:50am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} City Traders Imperium just removed the time limit, max stop loss % per position, minimum active trading days, and trailing drawdown for their instant accounts. This now makes them one of the best instant funding programs in my opinion.
Looks good, but leverage is only 1:10, impossible to do position trading...
  • #15,207
  • Apr 22, 2023 7:53am Apr 22, 2023 7:53am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} City Traders Imperium just removed the time limit, max stop loss % per position, minimum active trading days, and trailing drawdown for their instant accounts. This now makes them one of the best instant funding programs in my opinion.
How so? A $20,000 instant funded account costs $949. It has a 5% max loss, which is $1,000. So I pay $949 for $1,000. Well, I guess I do gain $51 vs. trading the $949 on my own.
2 step challenge.......for $949 you get $200K with 10-12% max loss, 20-24K. Even after hitting the 8% and 5% with 10% DD, trading on your own the $949 would yield $2,562. I gain $21,438 in trading capital vs. $51.
Instant funding is a complete ripoff. It is all a marketing gimmick to make you believe they are providing funding. Even the scaling, make 10% and we double the account. That 10% is on equity, so if you need 10% with 5% DD, you are making 200% and they are scaling you 100%. It is the complete opposite of geting funded, you are literally funding them. It is a fantastic legal scam these instant funding programs have developed.
  • #15,208
  • Apr 22, 2023 8:24am Apr 22, 2023 8:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} How so? A $20,000 instant funded account costs $949. It has a 5% max loss, which is $1,000. So I pay $949 for $1,000. Well, I guess I do gain $51 vs. trading the $949 on my own.
Not to mention that on your own account you keep 100% profits....
  • #15,209
  • Edited 8:57am Apr 22, 2023 8:45am | Edited 8:57am
You misread... I'm saying OF the instant trading programs, this is probably one of the best. I wasn't saying instant trading is better than 2 phase. But there also aren't very many 2 phase programs with unlimited time either. Nor are there very many instant trading programs with no trailing drawdown. Also, you are paying with time vs. money on 2 phase accounts. Either way the prop firm is making money before you are funded. ;-) I'd rather have a higher ROI of 2 phase accounts like e8 or MFF if the time bomb isn't a problem.
  • #15,210
  • Apr 22, 2023 8:46am Apr 22, 2023 8:46am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Not to mention that on your own account you keep 100% profits....
I think what everyone fails to realize is there WILL NEVER be an instant funding program that offers any value to a trader.
Why? The business model WILL NOT work if they provide more in max loss than they charge for the fee.
Think about this for a moment, let's say a firm offers 20K account with 10% loss, which would be 2,000. Let's say they charge 1,000. What % of traders would need to be successsful just for them to break even, let alone make a profit. Obvious answer is 50% just to break even. Now, what % of traders do you think will be successful when given double their money....2,000 to lose for 1,000 when 95% of traders lose their own money.
My advice.......traders should stop wasting their time looking for an instant funding program. As Taki has stated many times, the 2 step challenges, as they are, cannot get any better. MFF is the extreme with 8% target with 12% DD. Perhaps there will be longer or no time limits as MFFX is attempting.
If the challenge is not for you (and I completely understand that as well, not for everyone), save your time and resources and just grow your own account.....You're Welcome in advance!!!
  • #15,211
  • Apr 22, 2023 8:53am Apr 22, 2023 8:53am
Quoting AaronPriest
You misread... I'm saying OF the instant trading programs, this is probably one of the best. I wasn't saying instant trading is better than 2 phase. But there also aren't very many 2 phase programs with unlimited time either. Nor are there very many instant trading programs with no trailing drawdown.
Yes, I understand you meant of, my point is there will never be an instant funding program where the trader isn't LOSING money vs. trading their own account. The absolute best instant funding program is still going to be a losing venture for a trader. The business model CANNOT be profitable to the firm AND offer value to a trader simutaneously.
  • #15,212
  • Apr 22, 2023 9:03am Apr 22, 2023 9:03am
Hopefully, maybe an innovative company will develop a hybrid of some sort, where you deposit your own money, they perhaps match a %, share in the profits.
Problem is they would need to keep a tight lid on risk and this probably wouldn't have much market appeal as everyone thinks they are going to be a millionaire next week.
Perhaps you keep 100% of the profits of your deposit and a 50/50 split on whatever % they match
Personally, I'd be very open to a program where it is my deposit, I'm in control of my own funds and we shoot for a realistic goal of maybe 1% weekly. Over time and with success, they reinvest their share of profits to scale the account.
Just thinking out loud here, kind of like a MAMM but with the firm investing as opposed to individual traders.
Wouldn't be as profitable as the firms are now and it would be a slow growth for the trader. However, it would be faster than on your own and atleast you know you are in a mutually beneficial partnership where the firm is actually on your side to succeed.
Taki.....you want to fire one of these up???
  • #15,213
  • Apr 22, 2023 9:12am Apr 22, 2023 9:12am
My biggest problem is that as a US citizen, prop firms offer better brokers than I can use as a personal account. I have to use Forex.com, Oanda, or Trading.com (FINALLY a USA broker that supports MT5, as of a few months ago), or I have to use a sketchy broker overseas that only accepts crypto for payment and withdrawal, such as Coinexx. If it's a US broker, we have to deal with FIFO and that crap. If it's a foreign account and there's more than $10K aggregate we have to deal with FinCEN reporting and that crap. Also, there are tax implications of overseas brokers for us as every crypto transaction must be documented and filed with the IRS. So, in light of all that, instant funding is actually much more appealing than a personal account. But moving to another country isn't exactly affordable or feasible either.
  • #15,214
  • Apr 22, 2023 9:27am Apr 22, 2023 9:27am
Quoting AaronPriest
My biggest problem is that as a US citizen, prop firms offer better brokers than I can use as a personal account. I have to use Forex.com, Oanda, or Trading.com (FINALLY a USA broker that supports MT5, as of a few months ago), or I have to use a sketchy broker overseas that only accepts crypto for payment and withdrawal, such as Coinexx. If it's a US broker, we have to deal with FIFO and that crap. If it's a foreign account and there's more than $10K aggregate we have to deal with FinCEN reporting and that crap. Also, there are tax implications...
Yes, US resident here as well. I used the offshores from 2014-2020. They are unregulated, yes, but conditions are actually better than the shithole offerings in the US. Your money is not protected in either case as US regulations offer no protection on forex accounts. Of course, much less likely that Oanda disappears than a Coinexx type company. However, the benefit offshore is the leverage, as you only need about 5% of the margin to execute the same size trade as in the US, so you have much less at risk offshore. Example, I believe they recently reduced leverage on GBP to 20:1 in US (only EUR and CAD are 50:1), so to trade 1 standard lot you need $5,000 with a US broker, let's say you are using a 50 pip stop....you are only risking $500, yet they want you to put up $5,000. Offshore, that SAME EXACT TRADE requires $200, now of course, same 50 pip stop, you would need $750-800 to avoid a margin call, but I'm sure you see the point.........only deposit what you are actually risking and withdrawal frequently. Let's say you are trading minis, you can comforably put 1,000 in an offshore as you only need $20 per trade in margin.
As far as instant funding props, yes, conditions are far superior than US brokers. If you look at the money you are losing as a cost of doing business to get those better conditions, it does make it more justifiable.
  • #15,215
  • Apr 22, 2023 9:55am Apr 22, 2023 9:55am
Quoting pipmaster77
If you look at the money you are losing as a cost of doing business to get those better conditions, it does make it more justifiable.
-Yes, more justifiable, but still not better than challenge-type models.

And sure, one can try to argue time vs. money, but:

1. Challenge models are fully refundable.
2. Instant models usually require a similar time-investment in order to compete with refundable models, so it ends up being basically the same, but with less-desirable terms.
  • #15,216
  • Apr 22, 2023 10:17am Apr 22, 2023 10:17am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, more justifiable, but still not better than challenge-type models. And sure, one can try to argue time vs. money, but: 1. Challenge models are fully refundable. 2. Instant models usually require a similar time-investment in order to compete with refundable models, so it ends up being basically the same, but with less-desirable terms.
The instant funding models usually scale much better than the traditional challenge models and that can make a big difference. However, on CTI I think their one step challenge which they call Instant funding is the best as with $99 you get a $2000 account which will scale to 10K once you hit the target and from there on it will double all the way up to 2M. I just don't like their low 1:10 leverage.
  • #15,217
  • Apr 22, 2023 10:57am Apr 22, 2023 10:57am
Quoting TraderTero
The instant funding models usually scale much better than the traditional challenge models and that can make a big difference.
-In most cases that I have seen, in order to scale, one must flip the account (sometimes twice). Sometimes, you must even keep your profits in the account in order to qualify.

In fact, in most cases, you are really just trading with your own money. And since the profit that you generate is usually going to serve as your 'scale-up', the scaling is just a fantasy.

Instant models simply cannot compete with fully-refundable, traditional models; the draw-down allowance and profit split are incomparable.
  • #15,218
  • Apr 22, 2023 11:38am Apr 22, 2023 11:38am
Quoting KoyaAndy18
What is a good propfirm for swing traders, preferably a broker that doesn't have time limit or something more than a month?
the unique prop firm with Phase 2 program with no limit is MFFX
up to yesterday there was a 40% discount offer only on 5K smallest account

now there is with code "CONQUER" 7% discount and 125% refund on the fee
if you choose them use as affiliate code "ECN" and let me know which package you bought, if you choose them
https://myfundedfx.tech/purchasechallenge/?sl=704
5K account is around 43-45$ right now to test them.

Phase 1 props not recommended

while as instant funding unique program that refund the fee is the RAPID NCA on MFF if you need a small account.
Minimum account is 749$ + discount.
https://myforexfunds.com/?wpam_id=2412294
I don't have any special code for discount here, may if interested in MFF we can search from other users a discount coupon that usually is 5% on MFF
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in holiday till end of November
  • #15,219
  • Apr 22, 2023 11:43am Apr 22, 2023 11:43am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} City Traders Imperium just removed the time limit, max stop loss % per position, minimum active trading days, and trailing drawdown for their instant accounts. This now makes them one of the best instant funding programs in my opinion.
Interesting! I will check asap the changes!

Please remember to message me when there are such big changes!

CityTraderImperium - CTI doesn't have here bad review and sometime is mentioned, as FTUK also.

So I will take a look and check what is going there.

Many Prop are looking to change their strict rules... and try to compete.

These are good time for us because are the traders to get better deal in the jungle.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,220
  • Apr 22, 2023 11:50am Apr 22, 2023 11:50am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} The instant funding models usually scale much better than the traditional challenge models and that can make a big difference. However, on CTI I think their one step challenge which they call Instant funding is the best as with $99 you get a $2000 account which will scale to 10K once you hit the target and from there on it will double all the way up to 2M. I just don't like their low 1:10 leverage.
Of course x1.75 or x2 scale are the best scale program for a trader. And we can't compare with the 0.25 or 0.30 or the PL of E8 scaling.

But many 5-6% max drawdown will be something that over the long term could let you lose much more accounts that a 8-12% max drawdown account.

Of course if you are able to growth slowly with some stable, profitable strategy, wow, you can go slow at the beginning and after you accumulare a 3-6% profit you can accelerate and start to compare it with a phase 2 challenge, and with a x1.75 x2 scale up you can fly.

But for now I never heard here somebody arrived to get a 2M account on MFF or 4M on 5ers with it.

About City Trader Imp. the leverage 1:10 is a big issue. They should increase to 1:30. But if there is no time limit, then fine.

The leverage could create problem when you will want 2-3 trades at the same time. And for many strategies with a trade management auto lot size when you find a good trade with for example 1% balance risk and a very small stop loss, this trades wouldn't be allowed because you will use lots of leverage with a small stop loss.
in holiday till end of November
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