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  • #15,021
  • Apr 17, 2023 6:16am Apr 17, 2023 6:16am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} Did any prop review site tell you max DD, not the nominal account value is the fund you get from prop firms? I have never seen one. So all of those sites deliberately hide this most important truth . Their assumption is nominal account value is what you get from prop firms so 1:10 leverage is not enough. I don't think this is true nor those sites can be trusted.
Flipping an account with 1:200 leverage is much easier and faster than doing it with 1:100 leverage.
  • #15,022
  • Apr 17, 2023 6:18am Apr 17, 2023 6:18am
Stocknet provides a 2500 USD account with 8% max loss (200 USD) for 160 GBP (aprox 199 USD), paying 50% to 75% of the profits. Better to use those 160 GBP and open an account in a broker that provides 1:500 leverage and get 100% of the profits.
  • #15,023
  • Apr 17, 2023 6:27am Apr 17, 2023 6:27am
Quoting Bizziebee
{quote} Quite honestly I prefer their instant funding which looks really good - $365 for a 10k account with 10% drawdown. Full scaling. MT4 platform and EA's welcome. I have to say its the best value instant funded model I have found so far
All good, except they have Eightcrap as broker...
  • #15,024
  • Apr 17, 2023 8:42am Apr 17, 2023 8:42am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} account co. = if you can open a corporate account with prop and not as individual. There is a legend on the bottom left where you can see this explained "co." The same for "N" is written on the bottom left: is the NEWS rule, of 2 minutes, if they have it. Step: IF= instant funding 1S - 1 Step/Phase challenge - 2S is 2 phase/steps challenge {image}
Thank you for your explanation, I didn't see the full picture before. So based on your list, do you think the best option for someone who doesn't wanna go through evaluation phase is MyForexFund Rapid NCA? since it doesn't have a time limit and bigger DD rules.
  • #15,025
  • Apr 17, 2023 8:55am Apr 17, 2023 8:55am
Quoting Capablanca
Stocknet provides a 2500 USD account with 8% max loss (200 USD) for 160 GBP (aprox 199 USD), paying 50% to 75% of the profits. Better to use those 160 GBP and open an account in a broker that provides 1:500 leverage and get 100% of the profits.
and there is that basic math again!!!!!!!!!! How people don't see it, I just do not understand.
  • #15,026
  • Apr 17, 2023 10:47am Apr 17, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}{quote}{quote}{quote}-I understand. Probably, it is better to be sure before making such comments here, since many people rely on the information that people share here about various firms.
Are you connected with this company? Your comment seems to point to the fact that you are. Why are you so worried about their reputation??

I definitely did see something negative about them because I was going to retake their challenge and then decided against it after seeing the post. Problem is that I can't remember where I saw it. More then likely was one of the Telegram propfirm groups. Problem with Telegram is that it's very difficult to find old posts. Anyway I shall keep looking!
  • #15,027
  • Apr 17, 2023 10:57am Apr 17, 2023 10:57am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} and there is that basic math again!!!!!!!!!! How people don't see it, I just do not understand.
Yes with regard to Stocknet I completely agree with you. That's why I thought that the instantfunding io offer is a lot more attractive. A 10k account with 70% profit split and 10% allowed drawdown for $365 sounds OK. And the possibility of reaching 10% profit (which would give you 700 bucks after the split) is an awful lot easier then trying to double a $365 trading account using high leverage. You are most definitely going to blow that account - guaranteed!
  • #15,028
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:14am Apr 17, 2023 11:14am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} and there is that basic math again!!!!!!!!!! How people don't see it, I just do not understand.
Because the presumption that you would risk 100% of your own capital with 1:500 to flip an account is incorrect. You are also ignoring the scaling and how it affects the profits and equity. Let's presume you have 100k of your own money and a 1 million funded account for which you have paid $2000 for. Would you really trade your own 100k all in using 1:500 leverage, or would you actually trade it pretty much with the same risk settings as your funded account? The example above is overly simplified and not usable in real world. You can't even use 100% of your margin in reality because of broker stop out levels.

I don't think that instant funding is the best way to go but it could also be very profitable if you have a supporting strategy.
  • #15,029
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:18am Apr 17, 2023 11:18am
Quoting Bizziebee
{quote} Yes with regard to Stocknet I completely agree with you. That's why I thought that the instantfunding io offer is a lot more attractive. A 10k account with 70% profit split and 10% allowed drawdown for $365 sounds OK. And the possibility of reaching 10% profit (which would give you 700 bucks after the split) is an awful lot easier then trying to double a $365 trading account using high leverage. You are most definitely going to blow that account - guaranteed!
With some of the Instant accounts you need to use your own profits for scaling whereas with Stocknet you can withdraw your profits and scale.
  • #15,030
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:39am Apr 17, 2023 11:39am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} With some of the Instant accounts you need to use your own profits for scaling whereas with Stocknet you can withdraw your profits and scale.
Yes you are quite correct. I just checked it with them and this "smart" drawdown story is a complete waste of time. If you withdraw your profits your drawdown allowance is ZERO! You get what you pay for as always.
  • #15,031
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:41am Apr 17, 2023 11:41am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote}You can't even use 100% of your margin in reality because of broker stop out levels.
Quite the opposite. With most brokers you can use much more than 100% of your margin as, when in loss, you position starts to get liquidated when reaching about 50% of required margin, some brokers allow to go as low as maybe even 30%
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,032
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:46am Apr 17, 2023 11:46am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Because the presumption that you would risk 100% of your own capital with 1:500 to flip an account is incorrect. You are also ignoring the scaling and how it affects the profits and equity. Let's presume you have 100k of your own money and a 1 million funded account for which you have paid $2000 for. Would you really trade your own 100k all in using 1:500 leverage, or would you actually trade it pretty much with the same risk settings as your funded account? The example above is overly simplified and not usable in real world. You can't even...
You would trade your real, personal account the same way you would trade the "allowable loss" of a prop firm....so if you have 10K prop firm account with 8% max loss, it is $800. You would trade the $800 the same way you would if you had $800 in a personal account, correct? So if you paid $800 for the prop firm account, you are giving away 25-50% profit for no reason whatsoever. You cannot compare the "equity" in a prop account with the equity in a personal account because you may only lose 8%, 10% whatever in that account. The scaling is when they really start to rob you, they say when you make 10%, this is on EQUITY not available loss, so if you make 10% (1,000) with 8% available loss (800) you are actually making 120%, yet they are only scaling you 100%.
Instant funding where fee equals the DD and/or scaling is double at 10% of "equity" is the opposite of being funded, you are actually giving money away.
Anyone can test it themselves, open an instant funding account and place the same "fee" in a personal account. Trade them side by side and you will see exactly what I am speaking about. I've already done it, so I speak from experience and there is a reason I do not ue these models.
  • #15,033
  • Apr 17, 2023 11:50am Apr 17, 2023 11:50am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Quite the opposite. With most brokers you can use much more than 100% of your margin as, when in loss, you position starts to get liquidated when reaching about 50% of required margin, some brokers allow to go as low as maybe even 30%
That's what I meant, you will get stopped out and trades closed one by one before your equity gets to 0. Once the broker starts to close your trades, it's game over.
  • #15,034
  • Apr 17, 2023 12:25pm Apr 17, 2023 12:25pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You would trade your real, personal account the same way you would trade the "allowable loss" of a prop firm....so if you have 10K prop firm account with 8% max loss, it is $800. You would trade the $800 the same way you would if you had $800 in a personal account, correct? So if you paid $800 for the prop firm account, you are giving away 25-50% profit for no reason whatsoever. You cannot compare the "equity" in a prop account with the equity in a personal account because you may only lose 8%, 10% whatever in that account. The scaling is...
In the sample given it was stated that you should use 1:500 leverage and somehow be able to use 100% of your equity to generate the same profit as on the prop account. In real life it doesn't work out like that. The other think is that I would never risk my 50% of my 100k personal account, so no, I would not trade the same way my personal account as my 1M prop account simply because the risk on my personal account would be 100K and on the prop firm account maybe 2k or whatever I paid for the funding. Since we both agree that we cannot compare the equity on personal and funded accounts, we should compare the risk for generating the profits. Risk with using your own funds exceeds very fast the risk of using props. If I could scale my 160 instant funding account to a 1.2 M funded account I couldn't care less who is robbing who. I understand your numbers, I just think that they are too theoretical.
  • #15,035
  • Apr 17, 2023 12:57pm Apr 17, 2023 12:57pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} In the sample given it was stated that you should use 1:500 leverage and somehow be able to use 100% of your equity to generate the same profit as on the prop account. In real life it doesn't work out like that. The other think is that I would never risk my 50% of my 100k personal account, so no, I would not trade the same way my personal account as my 1M prop account simply because the risk on my personal account would be 100K and on the prop firm account maybe 2k or whatever I paid for the funding. Since we both agree that we cannot compare...
What I am stating though is the $160 you are scaling to 1.2 million, would yield the same result without giving up 30-50% of your profit when traded side by side. If you wish to make it risk free, pull the $160 out of your persoanl account as soon as you double it.
To scale to 1.2 million with the prop, you must make 10% on the equity, as I explained it is atleast flipping the account, but in reality, 120-140% more often than not. Even just using 100%, you need to flip the account 9 times to get to the 1.28 million, with 8% max loss, it is 102,400. Now, take the $200 you paid for the account and flip it 9 times. It is the same exact number. Only difference, is you can withdrawal THE ENTIRE 102,400 from your personal account. You cannot withdrawal any of the 102,400, only the 50-70% they have paid you along the way.
With the challenge model, you pay $500 for 100K with 10% DD (10K). Most firms require 80% stage 1 (8% with 10% DD), 50% stage 2...would yield your $500 into $1,350....instead you get 10K available loss and $500 fee refunded.
It simply blows the instant funded out of the water. So, basically for the same effort , you earn 7 times more money
  • #15,036
  • Apr 17, 2023 1:03pm Apr 17, 2023 1:03pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} In the sample given it was stated that you should use 1:500 leverage and somehow be able to use 100% of your equity to generate the same profit as on the prop account. In real life it doesn't work out like that. The other think is that I would never risk my 50% of my 100k personal account, so no, I would not trade the same way my personal account as my 1M prop account simply because the risk on my personal account would be 100K and on the prop firm account maybe 2k or whatever I paid for the funding. Since we both agree that we cannot compare...
If you purchase a 2500 USD account you have a 200 USD max loss.
So what you have in reality is 200 USD (after losing 200 USD the account terminates).
And you paid aprox. 200 USD to have this, but only have 50 to 70% profits

Regarding leverage, they provide 1:200 which means 2500 x 200 = 500K maximum.

So, let's say you are conservative and only buy 1 lot. You're in fact having a leverage of 1:500 over those 200 you can lose.
  • #15,037
  • Apr 17, 2023 1:19pm Apr 17, 2023 1:19pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} That's what I meant, you will get stopped out and trades closed one by one before your equity gets to 0. Once the broker starts to close your trades, it's game over.
Now I see how you meant that. Ok, makes sense, your personal account is always a bit less than the initial balance because of that liquidation process which starts before you reach zero balance
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,038
  • Apr 17, 2023 1:19pm Apr 17, 2023 1:19pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} What I am stating though is the $160 you are scaling to 1.2 million, would yield the same result without giving up 30-50% of your profit when traded side by side. If you wish to make it risk free, pull the $160 out of your persoanl account as soon as you double it. To scale to 1.2 million with the prop, you must make 10% on the equity, as I explained it is atleast flipping the account, but in reality, 120-140% more often than not. Even just using 100%, you need to flip the account 9 times to get to the 1.28 million, with 8% max loss, it...
I think you are missing my point. I'm not questioning your calculations, just saying that things don't work like that in real life. Once you have your own funds in play for tens or even hundreds of thousands you need to have balls of steel in order to continue gambling with your own funds as the risk becomes unreasonably high for any normal person. This will force you eventually to approximately the same risk levels as the prop firms.
  • #15,039
  • Edited 9:38pm Apr 17, 2023 9:23pm | Edited 9:38pm
Quoting Bizziebee
Are you connected with this company? Your comment seems to point to the fact that you are.
-No. Feel free to read all of my previous comments if you have any doubts.

Many traders may use this thread as a way to gauge credibility among these firms. Making serious, negative claims about any firm without evidence may dilute the integrity of this tread and can be frustrating for people that have invested time into researching these firms (or worse, are trading with these firms). As such, it is always better to present evidence with your claims. It is just a suggestion.

Quoting Bizziebee
I definitely did see something negative about them ... Anyway I shall keep looking!
-Please do share something if you find it. I have been watching this firm with great interest for months now, investing some of my own time researching them. I have spent weeks going back and forth, trying to get clarification on specific matters and sharing that information here so that traders are informed. So maybe you can understand my frustration a little bit when someone makes such a serious claim but cannot provide any details about it?

It is not because the claim is negative, it is because the claim is empty and does not help anything.
  • #15,040
  • Apr 17, 2023 10:18pm Apr 17, 2023 10:18pm
Registered for https://finotivefunding.com/ prop account challenge yesterday. Ultimated time to complete the 2 stage challenge. That's very good.
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