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  • #13,781
  • Feb 6, 2023 6:05am Feb 6, 2023 6:05am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} They only delayed my payment claiming my trades were under investigation. I gave them my duplikium log to show all my trades have been initiated from my own demo account with IC Markets. They accepted it, apologized for the inconvenience, and proceeded with the payment.
Are they so terrified that you are using someone to trade for you!
  • #13,782
  • Feb 6, 2023 6:30am Feb 6, 2023 6:30am
Quoting Bizziebee
From another thread - regarding Bigpip funding: 1.Overall Drawdown 12%. Highest in any propfirm 2. Balance based daily drawdown 3.Biweekly payouts from the beginning 4.Quick payout processing (average 4hrs) and great customer service 5. 85% profit split from the beginning 6.Automation 7.No commissions 8.Reasonable spreads,minimum slippage 9.No hidden rules. Freedom in trading strategies 10.Ea's, Copy trading allowed Maybe worth a punt?
Did bigpip changed the rule? Now the one step funding is 5% drawdown and 10% target profit target. That is like asking for a 200% gain. Smells similar to a 2 step funding they just put it all in one package . Anyone else see it? It's still a no time limit challenge but most will likely blow up anyway due to that 5% drawdown . Let us know your experience one you try them out.
  • #13,783
  • Feb 6, 2023 7:01am Feb 6, 2023 7:01am
I was off for few days...

Traveling aroung.

Had been to Penang, Malaysia and now in Singapore.

How the trading has been going ?

What is the concern about TFF ?

I use TFF - 1 account, MFF 3 X 100K account.

Hope no problem with the above.

I will trade all 6x 100 k by May or June probably with MFF
Intraday only.
  • #13,784
  • Feb 6, 2023 7:54am Feb 6, 2023 7:54am
Hello. Finotive. Big post since I haven't seen much information about them here. My experience is about 2 stage challenge and funding account. I trade indices. Scalping. EA for copy from master.

+
No time limit.
Easy to buy an account, the account is available after 1-2 hours. Instantly from phase 1 to phase 2. After phase 2, I received a funded account within 24 hours.
Convenient system for withdrawing profits. You have 1 account all the time, the balance changes after the withdrawal and you can immediately trade.
EXCELLENT trading conditions for indices. 0.6 spread for DAX, 1 for NAS, 1-2 for DJ. Commission is 4$ per 1 lot. 1 lot of DAX = 25 contracts, 20 for NAS, 5 for DJ. I use 0.2 lot for DAX so 1 pip = 5.4$ and commission is 0.8$! Good order execution(I don't trade high impact news).
Payouts every 7 calendar days. First withdrawal after 2 days. Refundable challenge fee but after 30 days if account is green.

-
For me, MT5, but copying is allowed.
RTP rules that aslso include a mandatory stop loss (I even think this is + for most traders, but I don't like any restrictions)
Scaling system looks useless.

My first payout was reduced from 80% to 25%, yes they can do that. I was accused of using the hft algorithm. I had an average of 200 trades per day during challenge, all were opened by EA (copy). Although the average duration of the trades was far from hft... They said that it would be better to ask me to go through stage 2 again, but here is your 25% profit and a requirement to change trading behavior. After I explained how I trade with scripts and that I use many orders for building lot volume for different contracts, my second payout was 80%. I also reduced the number of trades to 50 per day for finotive, which is more than enough if I don't trade DJ.
Yes, I lost honest money on the first payout. BUT I'm sure most props wouldn't even try to dialogue with me. Just blocking the account and byebye. Also they won't block you if you break the rtp rule. It seems to me that they are really trying to manage risk and create something good, but at the same time they have little experience and fundamental knowledge. I mean that old rule 3 trades per instrument rule that they removed, obviously it can't affect risk. New RTP is more correct but still debatable.

Anyway I recommend them if you are looking for additional funding after getting accounts with other props. Also I can recommend them for beginners, perhaps this firm with their RTP rules will open up a new perspective on trading and risk management.
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  • #13,785
  • Feb 6, 2023 8:25am Feb 6, 2023 8:25am
Quoting maflip
{quote} Did bigpip changed the rule? Now the one step funding is 5% drawdown and 10% target profit target. That is like asking for a 200% gain. Smells similar to a 2 step funding they just put it all in one package . Anyone else see it? It's still a no time limit challenge but most will likely blow up anyway due to that 5% drawdown . Let us know your experience one you try them out.
I was thinking of trying them - 5% is the normal story and yes it's so easy to fail! I will certainly let you know my experience
  • #13,786
  • Feb 6, 2023 9:32am Feb 6, 2023 9:32am
Quoting Nihi
Hello. Finotive. Big post since I haven't seen much information about them here. My experience is about 2 stage challenge and funding account. I trade indices. Scalping. EA for copy from master. + No time limit. Easy to buy an account, the account is available after 1-2 hours. Instantly from phase 1 to phase 2. After phase 2, I received a funded account within 24 hours. Convenient system for withdrawing profits. You have 1 account all the time, the balance changes after the withdrawal and you can immediately trade. EXCELLENT trading conditions for...
I only had a payout with them and I can confirm it was the fastest, ever, and that they deducted the amount and I could immediately go on trading.

However, they have 2 rules that people need to be prepared:

1. Always trade with stop loss. They are never clear about this. They say we may start a trade and then enter a SL within 1 minute, some say 5 minutes and sometime ago they said that we may not have a SL, providing that this is not usual behaviour.
I'm saying this because we can forget to enter a SL and only detect that after some time, like 15 minutes. This leave us dependent on their arbitrary decision.

2. They have the 5% daily max loss but if the positions are in all in one instrument / pair it's only 50% (which means 2.5%). Not a problem for me because 2.5% is a lot but if people have wide SLs and / or if they trade a lot during the day, different pairs/instruments, it's convenient to check their dashboard and see the exact daily values to avoid surprises. Otherwise it's easy to lose track of that.
  • #13,787
  • Feb 6, 2023 10:41am Feb 6, 2023 10:41am
Yes SL is required. You have a minute to put it. Also, if you accidentally open a trade, the best solution is not to immediately close it without a SL, but to set a SL and then close it. They mentioned it several times in their telegram channel.

RTP rule 2.5% risk. Another surprise is that your daily profit does not matter. Profit works as a daily drawdown buffer, BUT it doesn't affect that 2.5%. Example. 5k daily drawdown is allowed, so 50% is 2500 to risk. You made 1k, now the daily drawdown is 6k, but still 2500 to risk. Only next day it will be 50% from new daily dd.
  • #13,788
  • Feb 6, 2023 11:16am Feb 6, 2023 11:16am
WTF - just lost my MFF account because of the sequence of triggering the SLs ??? My equity never breached the critical level, actually I closed positive, but my balance did because the sequence in which the SL were triggered was loses first, then profits. This doesn't matter with other prop firms as long as your equity is above so I never cared about the sequence, only about the total P/L of the set of open positions. Is that really so MFF has such a stupid rule in place???
Btw, all position SLs triggered at the same fraction of a second, overal PL in profit, only that sequence of closing cased the breach.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #13,789
  • Feb 6, 2023 12:49pm Feb 6, 2023 12:49pm
Quoting Nihi
Another surprise is that your daily profit does not matter. Profit works as a daily drawdown buffer, BUT it doesn't affect that 2.5%. Example. 5k daily drawdown is allowed, so 50% is 2500 to risk. You made 1k, now the daily drawdown is 6k, but still 2500 to risk. Only next day it will be 50% from new daily dd.
Didn't know about this! Thanks a lot for alerting.

In your example of 1K profit I guess is 1K of closed trades that day, right ?

I hope they don't consider this with unrealized open profits. That would be extremely difficult to follow.
  • #13,790
  • Feb 6, 2023 1:20pm Feb 6, 2023 1:20pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Didn't know about this! Thanks a lot for alerting. In your example of 1K profit I guess is 1K of closed trades that day, right ? I hope they don't consider this with unrealized open profits. That would be extremely difficult to follow.
Yes, closed profit. Good question about unrealized profit/loss. I pick closed profit only. Not sure about floating loss. I mean it would be difficult to change SL for all open positions every time if your drawdown has increased.

This RTP rule is quite confusing. But I saw in telegram chat risk 2.5% rule basically punishing "all-in" traders so we need just stay with proper risk management. Maybe they are looking at every case instead of just punishing you every time because of RTP.
  • #13,791
  • Feb 6, 2023 1:30pm Feb 6, 2023 1:30pm
Quoting Vitore
WTF - just lost my MFF account because of the sequence of triggering the SLs ??? My equity never breached the critical level, actually I closed positive, but my balance did because the sequence in which the SL were triggered was loses first, then profits. This doesn't matter with other prop firms as long as your equity is above so I never cared about the sequence, only about the total P/L of the set of open positions. Is that really so MFF has such a stupid rule in place??? Btw, all position SLs triggered at the same fraction of a second, overal...
I recall someone else having the same thing happen. They were close to the edge (with an aggressive hedge) and closed the losing one first before the profitable ones and got blown out. I don't recall which firm it was, (had to be either FTMO or MFF) but was able to get reinstated after discussing with them. Bring it to their attention in their respective thread here on FF and see what they say.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #13,792
  • Edited 2:11pm Feb 6, 2023 1:55pm | Edited 2:11pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I recall someone else having the same thing happen. They were close to the edge (with an aggressive hedge) and closed the losing one first before the profitable ones and got blown out. I don't recall which firm it was, (had to be either FTMO or MFF) but was able to get reinstated after discussing with them. Bring it to their attention in their respective thread here on FF and see what they say.
I already did try their support. Spent some hour on chat with their agent. He just kept repeating its a violation. Waste of time.
Actually, I'm sure I placed the SL's in the order so that profits are closed first. But the tool closed the losses first and caused the violation.
Well, my mistake. I shouldn't have traded so aggressively. On the other hand, I had much higher hopes for MFF. But instead of trying to understand the case they seem just being happy about another trader failed. Whatever. Not sure I ever use them again. Or maybe I try their Discord or FF when I cool down
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #13,793
  • Feb 6, 2023 2:28pm Feb 6, 2023 2:28pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I already did try their support. Spent some hour on chat with their agent. He just kept repeating its a violation. Waste of time. Actually, I'm sure I placed the SL's in the order so that profits are closed first. But the tool closed the losses first and caused the violation. Well, my mistake. I shouldn't have traded so aggressively. On the other hand, I had much higher hopes for MFF. But instead of trying to understand the case they seem just being happy about another trader failed. Whatever. Not sure I ever use them again. Or maybe I try...
Make your case here on their thread. Worth a shot.

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...s-discussionqa
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #13,794
  • Feb 6, 2023 2:31pm Feb 6, 2023 2:31pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Make your case here on their thread. Worth a shot. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...s-discussionqa
Ok, thanks
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #13,795
  • Feb 6, 2023 3:55pm Feb 6, 2023 3:55pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Ok, thanks
Had exactly same situation with MFF. Chat didn't know how to sort it. I emailed Connor from MFF but he said the rule is there and says clearly how it is calculated,he cannot help... Stupid thing for me as well
  • #13,796
  • Feb 6, 2023 4:09pm Feb 6, 2023 4:09pm
Quoting Nihi
Yes SL is required. You have a minute to put it. Also, if you accidentally open a trade, the best solution is not to immediately close it without a SL, but to set a SL and then close it. They mentioned it several times in their telegram channel. RTP rule 2.5% risk. Another surprise is that your daily profit does not matter. Profit works as a daily drawdown buffer, BUT it doesn't affect that 2.5%. Example. 5k daily drawdown is allowed, so 50% is 2500 to risk. You made 1k, now the daily drawdown is 6k, but still 2500 to risk. Only next day it will...
Not sure to understand the rules of 2.5%. Means : you can lose only 50% of the Daily D on one trade ? And the 50% remaining on a second trade for example ?

5 minimum trading days by phase ?
  • #13,797
  • Feb 6, 2023 4:51pm Feb 6, 2023 4:51pm
Quoting maflip
Did bigpip changed the rule? Now the one step funding is 5% drawdown and 10% target profit target. That is like asking for a 200% gain.
-When I looked at the site the other day, the terms were the same as you have stated. I do not believe that anything has changed (unless they were different before then).

From what I have seen, these 1-phase models are usually more expensive or more difficult. But, there is usually a trade-off. In some cases, the model is easier and faster, but more expensive and does not offer a refund on the entry fee. In other cases, the model is more difficult, roughly the same cost, but offers a refund. Some models also have the option to trade without a daily DD limit, which can be very beneficial for traders, especially if/when the max draw-down is static and based on the initial balance.

This is why it is important for traders to pay attention to such small details and determine what is best for them. I personally like that firms are providing more options for traders, in lieu of the cooker-cutter offerings that most firms have built their business model around, that fails to set them apart from their competitors. I think that there are benefits with sticking with what works, but I also think that it can be very advantageous to think outside of the box and to constantly try to improve and evolve.
  • #13,798
  • Feb 6, 2023 4:57pm Feb 6, 2023 4:57pm
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Not sure to understand the rules of 2.5%. Means : you can lose only 50% of the Daily D on one trade ? And the 50% remaining on a second trade for example ? 5 minimum trading days by phase ?
RTP rule violations:
Risking 100% or more of drawdown limits in open trades of any instrument.
Risking 50% or more of drawdown limits on individual trades or across open trades of the same instrument.
Trading with no stop loss.

How I understand it. Limits means daily drawdown. So if your drawdown limit is reduced to 4k as a result of loss take, your new risk limit is 2k, and so on. And you can use it however you want. So yes, it can be 2 trades on different instruments with a risk of <2.5% each. But if at first you got a loss of 2.45%, then new trades should be based on this.

I haven't tried this in practice, I like small risks. But looks like it works so. By their answers in the telegram chat.

No minimum days. You passed - you going next.
  • #13,799
  • Feb 6, 2023 5:19pm Feb 6, 2023 5:19pm
Quoting pipmaster77
I believe the larger ones (FTMO, MFF) have diversified to create other income streams and will survive. MFF is planning on opening their own brokerage. TFTP I believe will survive as well. I use all 3. I also use TFF and they are truly the only one I am concerned about.
-I think that diversification will be a key component for longevity, not just for firms, but for traders as well. This is usually the case, as we know. I suspect that merchandise sales offer very little in terms of profit (comparatively speaking), but I do think that the instant funding models should be a no-brainer for any firm, so long as it is done correctly, as it can offer virtually risk-free profit potential. I am not aware of all of the ways that these firms have diversified, but I would surely be curious.

Of those of us that were around during the inception of some of these firms, we may remember (or maybe have forgotten) some of the small things that occurred since the beginning. Like the founder of TFF banning that trader for scalping and closing out his trades in under 30 seconds or some nonsense, then posting on social media, after it become a PR mess.

Then there was the founder of E8 posting here on this forum, telling us about his past as a failed trader that now wants to run a prop firm. MFF even struggled in the beginning when Jessica failed and all of her business migrated over. Let's not forget all of the youtubers and social media influencers that decided to start a prop firm and/or promote all of their friends' prop firms etc..

Prop firms have come and gone, and will continue to do so, so long as they are able. As traders, we would be foolish to rely too heavily on one source. I cannot speak for others, but I personally think that diversification should go beyond trading, whether that be through prop or a broker etc.; invest in real estate, dividends, stocks, gold, crypto, whatever... just do something, if/when you can. At the very least, save a percentage of your money and let it compound. Just my opinion.
  • #13,800
  • Feb 6, 2023 7:14pm Feb 6, 2023 7:14pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I cannot speak for others, but I personally think that diversification should go beyond trading, whether that be through prop or a broker etc.; invest in real estate, dividends, stocks, gold, crypto, whatever... just do something, if/when you can. At the very least, save a percentage of your money and let it compound. Just my opinion.
Very well stated. I have used profits over the years to expand into passive income investments.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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