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  • #12,521
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:05pm Nov 17, 2022 4:05pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Now that we have spent a good 7-8 hours discussing what could be absolutely nothing, has anyone seen or heard anything about this other than this thread? If someone other than Takisd had posted this, I wouldn't have given it much attention at all. He does know a lot of heavy hitters though, so I consider this credible until someone proves otherwise.
Even if you were to trade at a traditional brick and mortar prop firm, only the few elite would be allowed to trade larger accounts. Any yolo degen gambler would get tossed fairly quickly or have limits in place to where they couldn't.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #12,522
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:11pm Nov 17, 2022 4:11pm
Quoting pipmaster77
if they want to blacklist gamblers, the entire model needs to change.
-I think that, as long as they are honest and upfront about it, then I am okay with it. It may be hypocritical for them to set the bar so high, and then have such different expectations once funded, but as previously mentioned, I accept the trade-off so long as I can get funded faster and without all of the hassles. It is the making up of unclear rules after the fact that I have a problem with.

Quoting Cryptosurf
The other point I was making is there are a lot of people that get worked up over whatever X prop firm is doing, or not doing. A lot of those same people have yet to pull a positive PNL, regardless if its a prop firm or personal.
-Complaining is the unfortunate nature of many people. At the same time, I think that it is important to have open discussion about things. I think that there is a difference, though. I have seen how shutting people out or prohibiting certain topics can cause an environment where people are afraid or unable to speak up about legitimate concerns.

Quoting pipmaster77
Now that we have spent a good 7-8 hours discussing what could be absolutely nothing, has anyone seen or heard anything about this other than this thread? If someone other than Takisd had posted this, I wouldn't have given it much attention at all. He does know a lot of heavy hitters though, so I consider this credible until someone proves otherwise.
-Agreed. Hopefully, Takisd can chime in with more info.
  • #12,523
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:19pm Nov 17, 2022 4:19pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Even if you were to trade at a traditional brick and mortar prop firm, only the few elite would be allowed to trade larger accounts. Any yolo degen gambler would get tossed fairly quickly or have limits in place to where they couldn't.
Exactly, however, they would not be asking you to flip an account in 30 days in order to get hired either. My point is the simple hypocrisy of the entire model (not just FTMO)
The ads read.....we are looking for good traders, GET FUNDED, simply flip an account in 30 days, then TO BE SURE YOU CAN MANAGE RISK, another 50% in 60 days. Then after you are funded, they want to impose "non-gambling" restrictions. Huh?
As I mentioned, doesn't affect me the least bit, I have figured out how to adjust risk to pass challenges and then I trade the accounts (based on available DD only) as if it were my personal account.
I am 100% pro prop firm, I look at challenges as 1:1 trade (10% DD to 10% profit) but it pays 16:1...$500 gets you 10K (8K after split). Then fee is refunded, you are free rolling and trade small. I just have a hard time with the hypocrisy of the challenge and then "don't gamble" on funded.
  • #12,524
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:20pm Nov 17, 2022 4:20pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Now that we have spent a good 7-8 hours discussing what could be absolutely nothing, has anyone seen or heard anything about this other than this thread? If someone other than Takisd had posted this, I wouldn't have given it much attention at all. He does know a lot of heavy hitters though, so I consider this credible until someone proves otherwise.
Besides Takisd warning, we also saw that lengthy page from FTMO about gambling, with plenty of indications of what they may consider gambling.
It's enough, at least, to be alert.
-----
I would say that trying to avoid gamblers would oblige to have a set of rules like Finotive Funding has, limiting number of positions opened, only allowing 25% payout after a busted funded account, until losses are recovered, etc.
Or having something like Traders Central on martingale.
Or like Funded Next that prevent trades 2 minutes before and after news.
Or like TPT that had the size lot limitation for the first 3 months.
There are already plenty of examples of rules that may minimize the number of gamblers or, at least, oblige them to be more imaginative.

But, hey, then people would not like it and would fly from FTMO to somewhere else.
  • #12,525
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:23pm Nov 17, 2022 4:23pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly, however, they would not be asking you to flip an account in 30 days in order to get hired either. My point is the simple hypocrisy of the entire model (not just FTMO) The ads read.....we are looking for good traders, GET FUNDED, simply flip an account in 30 days, then TO BE SURE YOU CAN MANAGE RISK, another 50% in 60 days. Then after you are funded, they want to impose "non-gambling" restrictions. Huh? As I mentioned, doesn't affect me the least bit, I have figured out how to adjust risk to pass challenges and then I trade the accounts...
Im thinking this is still much ado about nothing. Takisd made a comment and somehow its morphed into the sky is falling.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #12,526
  • Nov 17, 2022 4:26pm Nov 17, 2022 4:26pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Complaining is the unfortunate nature of many people. At the same time, I think that it is important to have open discussion about things. I think that there is a difference, though. I have seen how shutting people out or prohibiting certain topics can cause an environment where people are afraid or unable to speak up about legitimate concerns.
Beating dead horses is also the unfortunate nature of people as well.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #12,527
  • Nov 17, 2022 5:01pm Nov 17, 2022 5:01pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
Takisd made a comment and somehow its morphed into the sky is falling.
-We are just having a discussion. I think that's important and what this thread is for.

Quoting Cryptosurf
Beating dead horses is also the unfortunate nature of people as well.
-I want to clarify that I was not referring to you when I made the comment about complainers. But I sense your meaning. No worries, I'll take a break.
  • #12,528
  • Nov 17, 2022 5:38pm Nov 17, 2022 5:38pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Now that we have spent a good 7-8 hours discussing what could be absolutely nothing, has anyone seen or heard anything about this other than this thread? If someone other than Takisd had posted this, I wouldn't have given it much attention at all. He does know a lot of heavy hitters though, so I consider this credible until someone proves otherwise.

They are just banning people who are gambling sorta. I don't remember signing up with any such rule? It hasn't affected me but I know someone it has and to say the least, they weren't really gambling just not in desperate need to have strict risk management.

All this being said, I would still recommend FTMO if you are trading and need capital. But that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, so far, based on discord conversations, almost everyone i talk to is doing what would fall under gambling due to position size.

The thing that bothers me, about any firm, is if something is not written clearly on the website before purchase. Or changes without notice.

If you are asking me if I think there is trouble afoot? I dont know, i dont think so, from most reports FTMO run a proper shop this kind of blindsided me a little but I can understand where it comes from, its just not very marketable if its written on the front page of the site.

TPT i think did the same right? Mean while, I am using 4 different eightcap firms at the moment and the slippage during normal hours is abhorrent. Why haven't more people brought that up? Its one thing to ban gamblers, its another to slip 0.5 lots of gbpusd 1.7 pips or 4 lots of us30 10 pips during periods of high liquidity.

Bottom line: If you are really a trader, use FTMO, if you want to buy a lambo tomorrow, don't.
  • #12,529
  • Nov 17, 2022 11:57pm Nov 17, 2022 11:57pm
any BF discounts on prop firms evaluations ?
  • #12,530
  • Edited Nov 18, 2022 12:20am Nov 17, 2022 11:58pm | Edited Nov 18, 2022 12:20am
My view is very simple and PRO - Prop Firm (the good ones)

1. Come on, you never tested a demo or a new platform? it's just a 10% or 8% profit to do in 30-35 days.
But let's call it "game" more than challenge, because it's gambling to give fuel to the model of prop firm
to make money and have more room to manage the payout of traders they won't copy

2. So, if point 1. is clear. The price to get an account of 200K-400K size can be below 1500 or even 1000$.
We are speaking of 150-250 times your risk, is like just to lose 1 trade if you have your personal account.
With 5 or 10 of that, you can build in less of 6-12 months probably a 1-2M portfolio

3. Risk Management: the real benefit of the prop rules is to put a limit to your risk. You will never lose in your
bad day more than 3-5-6% of your portfolio. You know well that in a bad day or bad week with an MT5 in your
hands with 30-100-500 leverage you could go to zero quickly in few hours or in a week.

4. Payout is 80-90% at the best brokers, let's say you have an average of 85% you lose only 15% on your profits.
This is already a "tax" compared to the 100% profit you could do with your own account.
15% tax
The rest of profit (85%) should be taxed to personal income tax that can arrive in some countries in developed countries
up to 50-75%.
I don't bother to comment here again, but I would change my residency in 0-10% range PIT countries. Many prop traders
are digital nomads.

5. Broker risk: And what if the broker go bankrupt? you will lose your own personal account.

6. Investment: you can invest your own capital in a safer strategy.
This is my case. I make on a S&P 500 options strategy around 27% per year.
So this is what I will do as I will start with higher capitals:
example: 1.000.000$ portfolio, you park at your safe strategy (in this example is 2% income per month, so 20.000$ per month).
After that, after the first month you start to join and build prop firm capitals.
Let's say you win a TFT account of 400K, one MFF of 300K, one FTMO OF 200K, one 200 of TFF you have also your 1.000.000$
prop portfolio.... that you build almost with free money invested in another strategy that can be like mine, real estate, or other
safe business you could have. That money never could blow up in a bad day, week or if you simply get suicide with MT5-MT4 high
leverage.

7. The fee of the challenge is even refunded! So, if you pass the challenge at the first try, you build this portfolio of prop accounts almost for free.
Of course the time spent have a value also in $.

8. Finally, if you have few money, let's say 10000$, I don't believe that you have more chance to gain with your own small account that with
5 prop accounts for a total combined of 1M+ AUM that you can reach investing 10000$.


Buy the way, I love it just for the risk management, even if there is not a support of an account manager you can reach at
any issue, to have a dashboard, rules, a chart of your performance, is already a good start point to get you inspired and do well.
Tools help. Community is big, and in some cases you are trading to lower commissions and conditions of your own personal account.
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,531
  • Nov 18, 2022 1:44am Nov 18, 2022 1:44am
this are the spreads of FTMO today

however FTMO spread on forex are higher than eightcap

so the 1.5$ commission is however like 3.5$ or more of other programs

for oil, gold and indexes are good however because commission free and spreads decent.

I will add E8 soon, I'm making a trial again.

E8 spreads

For what I see today, E8 spreads are much better of FTMO for forex are usually 0.2-0.5 less of FTMO

this is equal at a commission of FTMO much higher of E8, E8 commission is 2.5$ per lot, real, while the 1.5$ of FTMO is like a 3.5 on EURUSD and other 0 spreads like pairs while on crosses is 5$ or even more.

While on indexes E8 is good on Germany, and I'm waiting to see at open of US market if the Nasdaq and Dow get lower to decent levels.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,532
  • Nov 18, 2022 8:38am Nov 18, 2022 8:38am
Long time reader and first time poster.

One idea for the prop firm spreadsheet and one of the primary requirements for my decision process is

  1. When Funded - Real Money/Account or Demo Account
  2. Max position size or required stop loss

This can help people get a better understanding of the prop firms business model and the type of trader they are targeting. Firms that seek an 8-10% return in ~30 days, allow max leverage with no stop loss and then set you up on a demo when funded employ a high risk business model. There are a lot of smart people that will figure out how to game that model and i think we saw that with Funding Talent. Maybe we are seeing that now with FTMO.

  • #12,533
  • Nov 18, 2022 8:56am Nov 18, 2022 8:56am
Im Currently Doing MFF Challenge, My Goal Is to have over $1M in funding by December 2023, will be reinvesting in challenges untill i reach there, currently doing two challenges, 1 evaluation and 1 acceleration, i have a thread where i document my whole entire journey, man these challenges are so hard mentlly, phycology is key and also money management, i struggle sometimes, heres my thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...7#post14227877
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
  • #12,534
  • Nov 18, 2022 10:34am Nov 18, 2022 10:34am
Quoting Soros
Im Currently Doing MFF Challenge, My Goal Is to have over $1M in funding by December 2023, will be reinvesting in challenges untill i reach there, currently doing two challenges, 1 evaluation and 1 acceleration, i have a thread where i document my whole entire journey, man these challenges are so hard mentlly, phycology is key and also money management, i struggle sometimes, heres my thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...7#post14227877
Good luck on your journey. If you’re serious about that goal, then bypass documenting anything via social media/forum etc. It’s just another mental drain that serves no purpose in obtaining your goal. Focus on what matters the most.

Document it once you’re funded but from experience of others, broadcasting your journey will only be a unnecessary distraction.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #12,535
  • Nov 18, 2022 10:55am Nov 18, 2022 10:55am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Good luck on your journey. If you’re serious about that goal, then bypass documenting anything via social media/forum etc. It’s just another mental drain that serves no purpose in obtaining your goal. Focus on what matters the most. Document it once you’re funded but from experience of others, broadcasting your journey will only be a unnecessary distraction.
Exactly. You have nothing to prove to anybody but yourself.
  • #12,536
  • Nov 18, 2022 12:39pm Nov 18, 2022 12:39pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Good luck on your journey. If you’re serious about that goal, then bypass documenting anything via social media/forum etc. It’s just another mental drain that serves no purpose in obtaining your goal. Focus on what matters the most. Document it once you’re funded but from experience of others, broadcasting your journey will only be a unnecessary distraction.
im bipolar bro, documenting helps with accountability, nobody wants to fail publicaly so it helps to keep me disciplined, i found the hardest part of this is the phsycological part so year bro, but thanks for the advice bro
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
  • #12,537
  • Nov 18, 2022 1:44pm Nov 18, 2022 1:44pm
Quoting Soros
documenting helps with accountability, nobody wants to fail publicaly so it helps to keep me disciplined
-You do what you have to do. Learning how to fail is very important in this business. That may look differently for some people, which is okay.

I personally do not share certain details as a matter of choice. To each their own, though. I know that what may seem like bragging to one person, may be motivational and inspiring to another. There will always be skeptics and critics, no matter what you do in life or how well you do it.

At the end of the day, the opinions that others may have about you do not matter in most cases, with very few exceptions.
  • #12,538
  • Nov 19, 2022 12:50am Nov 19, 2022 12:50am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You do what you have to do. Learning how to fail is very important in this business. That may look differently for some people, which is okay. I personally do not share certain details as a matter of choice. To each their own, though. I know that what may seem like bragging to one person, may be motivational and inspiring to another. There will always be skeptics and critics, no matter what you do in life or how well you do it. At the end of the day, the opinions that others may have about you do not matter in most cases, with very few exceptions....
ive been trading forex for years, i think i have it under control but im always open to advice... lifes short bro, so caring about other peoples opinions will only rob us of life, however advice is good and respect is very important.
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
  • #12,539
  • Nov 19, 2022 2:57am Nov 19, 2022 2:57am
Friday was a disaster for me, I was trying the trial aggressive of FTMO and the E8 trial.

In FTMO I failed with crash of oil, due the fact that I hade RONZ SL TP setted badly, so the market went slightly below where I was expecting it, and I got the last take profit exit to early so I spent time to disable RONZ, I made -11% then +10% but failed.

E8, I used to the right moment, and I bought at the right point. I didn't realized that the lot there was x10, so I took a risk of x10 I wanted and I made a -6.85% losing the control instradof 1% risk max I could have.

All this because I spent the entire week to train on a 1:3 risk reward ratio strategies using macd, supertrend, ema200.
I did this 15M charts, very stressful, was going well till I forgot that at 23:00 on the close they was opening the spreads and taking my stops even if my position was in profit (Vantage live)

So now I'm training on 4H charts with 1:3 ratio trades and also I will try next week ratios 1:5 when I get better entry because I know where people has entries and stops on the charts.

So to train on another technique, I lost control on what I know to do on aggressive scalping counter-trend.

Any tips?

I realize every day how will be hard to pass at first step the challenge, the 30D rules is not the problem is too force to make a 10%.... that is the hard part.

That's why I think I will start with a 8% program may be soon, and not a 10%. Also I'm thinking if to start with FundedTradingPlus just for this, to don't have this stress and leave to me more time possible.

Also you have to consider that if in your 30Days (20-21 trading days) you don't have good volatility can be hard to find easy opportunities to push on it.

However, I will train myself this week on trend-following scalping trades.

I attach my positions that I left open for the next week.


I'm on it, you know, it's not hard to make money, it's hard to pass the challenge at first try.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,540
  • Nov 19, 2022 3:02am Nov 19, 2022 3:02am
I didn't have time yesterday so to check the spreads on US indices on E8 because they blocked me the access to live prices.

Who has the E8 can please tell me which is the lowest spread they usually have on Nasdaq, Dow, Sp500?

Commission I know is 5$ per lot, but I have seen that on forex they are cheaper than I was thinking could be FTMO for example.

with eightcap brokers you know what to expect as spreads, that is at least something stable. While if spread are floating, they can charge you the commission they want that can be like 5$ per lot or 1 pip round turn easily.
in holiday till end of November
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