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  • #12,301
  • Nov 8, 2022 7:57am Nov 8, 2022 7:57am
Quoting lynnc
{quote} That may be your stance, but it is not the tax office stance and thats the one that counts (I only know first hand experience in the UK) I issue them an invoice, every 2 weeks and they pay the invoice. I then show the tax man my invoices, as well as any expenses that have to be taken off for example, broadband costs etc etc. I then pay tax yearly on my earnings. You can invoice someone for advice on filling in their tax return, it doesn't mean they have to take that advice, but you earned money anyway, its exactly the same thing. Thats all...
Our countries are probably very different in understanding this activity. Our tax offices have no idea how to classify prop trading whatsoever. They barely learnt about the cfd trading with brokers. At least in my country. They don't have a clue. As far as I pay the right amount of tax from the income (which I do) they don't need to question it and reclassify to providing a service. Actually some tax advisors support this my view as well. Others mostly have no idea what prop trading is so their opinion is irrelevant
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,302
  • Nov 8, 2022 8:38am Nov 8, 2022 8:38am
Quoting Vitore
They get paid for the service by the profit split they keep from our winnings. We are the customers, they are the service providers. That's my stance for my local tax office
If you'll ever be called by tax authority I would pay a ticket to be near you, listening to that explanation. Specially the part where you will explain them that, as a customer, it's perfectly normal to receive periodically a pile of money.

Jokes apart, you have a traders agreement as a contractor, where you execute trading in demo and they pay you based on that fake profit. In some way they pay you a commission for you to play a videogame. This has to be an professional activity, I assume ?
  • #12,303
  • Nov 8, 2022 8:53am Nov 8, 2022 8:53am
People can argue it any way that they like. What matters is how it is viewed from a tax perspective, respective of your country of origin/operations. At the end of the day, we can be classified simply as data providers, that work on a sub-contract basis. Up to each firm to decide what to do with that data, if anything at all.
  • #12,304
  • Nov 8, 2022 9:54am Nov 8, 2022 9:54am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, paying taxes in the US....you know it's not going to anything to improve anyone's lives or the country in general.........just further strengthens the enablement of the rely on the government mentality. Of course, the more reliant you become, the more power they hold, etc, etc, etc. Funny thing is....... people actually vote for this shit. What country did your friend become a citizen of?
he took Luxembourgish citizenship but is a resident of Panama
  • #12,305
  • Nov 8, 2022 9:54am Nov 8, 2022 9:54am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If you'll ever be called by tax authority I would pay a ticket to be near you, listening to that explanation. Specially the part where you will explain them that, as a customer, it's perfectly normal to receive periodically a pile of money.
Well, you wouldn't believe what kind of explanations you could hear in my country
So if I'm a casino player and periodically beat them in poker (not impossible, until they kick me out) and generate a regular income of that, does it mean I'm not the casino customer anymore?

Quoting Capablanca
{quote}Jokes apart, you have a traders agreement as a contractor, where you execute trading in demo and they pay you based on that fake profit. In some way they pay you a commission for you to play a videogame. This has to be an professional activity, I assume ?
Yes, the d*mn contract. What they put into it, I don't care to be honest. In my country, every contract is overruled by the law when they are in conflict or contradiction. And our law contains very specific rules for the definition of contractor (or entrepreneur to be more precise - as that's what determines the amount of money I pay from my gross income in form of various taxes). I like the analogy with the videogame player. Because this is actually close to my analogy with winnings achieved by playing lottery. If the lottery allows me to gain an edge and earn money on regular basis, does it qualify for a professional activity?
That's up to the interpretation of our local law which is so vague that no one really knows. And our law also states that, when in doubts or not specifically defined, the option which is most beneficial for the taxpayer is applied, in this case lower tax
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,306
  • Nov 8, 2022 9:55am Nov 8, 2022 9:55am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If you'll ever be called by tax authority I would pay a ticket to be near you, listening to that explanation. Specially the part where you will explain them that, as a customer, it's perfectly normal to receive periodically a pile of money. Jokes apart, you have a traders agreement as a contractor, where you execute trading in demo and they pay you based on that fake profit. In some way they pay you a commission for you to play a videogame. This has to be an professional activity, I assume ?
We have similar as the drivers as in Uber, IMHO
- X -
  • #12,307
  • Nov 8, 2022 10:09am Nov 8, 2022 10:09am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If you'll ever be called by tax authority I would pay a ticket to be near you, listening to that explanation. Specially the part where you will explain them that, as a customer, it's perfectly normal to receive periodically a pile of money.
By the way, trading with the broker I also periodically receive a pile of money while still being a customer
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,308
  • Nov 8, 2022 10:12am Nov 8, 2022 10:12am
Quoting Vitore
Well, you wouldn't believe what kind of explanations you could hear in my country So if I'm a casino player and periodically beat them in poker (not impossible, until they kick me out) and generate a regular income of that, does it mean I'm not the casino customer anymore?
Now you spanked me, I must confess.

So the narrative is: look, I insert some coins (challenge fees) in a machine (prop firm) and sometimes I get lucky (profits) and that machine (prop firm) spits out some coins (payouts).
Who can argue against this ? Different perspective, indeed.
  • #12,309
  • Nov 8, 2022 10:16am Nov 8, 2022 10:16am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Now you spanked me, I must confess. So the narrative is: look, I insert some coins (challenge fees) in a machine (prop firm) and sometimes I get lucky (profits) and that machine (prop firm) spits out some coins (payouts). Who can argue against this ? Different perspective, indeed.
Doesn't benefit us in the US.......24% up to 5K, above 5K taxed as personal income.
  • #12,310
  • Nov 8, 2022 11:12am Nov 8, 2022 11:12am
Have you seen that? 20 pips 45k profit and Fastest time to get funded: 33:51 Minutes
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  • #12,311
  • Nov 8, 2022 11:32am Nov 8, 2022 11:32am
Quoting trader888888
Have you seen that? 20 pips 45k profit and Fastest time to get funded: 33:51 Minutes {image}
They seem to have some chaos in these fabricated numbers
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Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,312
  • Nov 8, 2022 11:41am Nov 8, 2022 11:41am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} They seem to have some chaos in these fabricated numbers {image}
The irony of it all, the advertising pitch is phase 2 and 3 (in the new offer) exist to be sure the trader can manage risk. Not just E8, all of them encourage gambling while at the same time stating the purpose of the eval is to be sure the trader can manage risk.
  • #12,313
  • Nov 8, 2022 11:56am Nov 8, 2022 11:56am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The irony of it all, the advertising pitch is phase 2 and 3 (in the new offer) exist to be sure the trader can manage risk. Not just E8, all of them encourage gambling while at the same time stating the purpose of the eval is to be sure the trader can manage risk.
Correct. I never really understood why they promote the fastest phase completion or the highest payout. They contradict themselves.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,314
  • Nov 8, 2022 11:57am Nov 8, 2022 11:57am
On all the accounts I have that use e8, I am experiencing 10 pips slippage on open and close on all us30 orders 10 lots or bigger. Live accounts only.

Why aren't more people vocal about this?
  • #12,315
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:00pm Nov 8, 2022 12:00pm
How can be somebody funded in 35 minutes, if after the phase 1 you need to wait the phase 2, user and password, etc etc?

don't know ...
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,316
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:02pm Nov 8, 2022 12:02pm
Quoting Takisd
On all the accounts I have that use e8, I am experiencing 10 pips slippage on open and close on all us30 orders 10 lots or bigger. Live accounts only. Why aren't more people vocal about this?
No experience in indexes but I always experience slippage in forex, even if it is just 1 or 2 lots, which doesn't happen in others.
About 0.2/0.3 pips
  • #12,317
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:04pm Nov 8, 2022 12:04pm
Quoting forexbali
How can be somebody funded in 35 minutes, if after the phase 1 you need to wait the phase 2, user and password, etc etc? don't know ...
Maybe they measure the net time only. Starting from the first order until the closure of the last one. Each phase separately
On the other hand, E8 issues the account within seconds so you loose about 1 minute at most even if the waiting time between phases was included
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,318
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:09pm Nov 8, 2022 12:09pm
Quoting Takisd
On all the accounts I have that use e8, I am experiencing 10 pips slippage on open and close on all us30 orders 10 lots or bigger. Live accounts only. Why aren't more people vocal about this?
I never traded us30 with them, only us500 (up to 125 lots) and us100 (up to 50 lots). Both without any extraordinary slippage. On the other hand, I don't watch the execution as my trades are copied from another account. The profit was always lower than on the master but only slightly. Nothing that would catch my eye (knowing that they are expensive so some difference was always expected)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,319
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:12pm Nov 8, 2022 12:12pm
Quoting forexbali
How can be somebody funded in 35 minutes, if after the phase 1 you need to wait the phase 2, user and password, etc etc? don't know ...
This is almost instant at E8, this is why I like them.
  • #12,320
  • Nov 8, 2022 12:45pm Nov 8, 2022 12:45pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Better yet, renounce all citizenships and live on the water. I hear that there are some nice cruise ships that offer permanent residency. I guess you do not need to pay taxes if you are not a citizen of any country. Joking aside, the sad part is, not having citizenship would likely mean that you could not legally step foot on land again. Isn't it great? {quote}-I will assume that you are referring to tax evasion, which is illegal. Tax avoidance is smart, perfectly legal and even recommended, so long as it is done properly.
You assume wrong. Tax avoidance is not the same as tax optimization. If you can't convince a tax man that your tax structure is in place solely to avoid taxation you're gonna get your ass spanked bloody by said tax man. At least this is the case in the US and the EU and any other developed nation. Anyone can do whatever the fuck they want I just posted only to warn some gullible people who read something fatuous in this thread and believe that they found something.
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