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  • #12,001
  • Oct 31, 2022 8:36pm Oct 31, 2022 8:36pm
Look now! I created the column "ratio" to see what you see. Now I understand.

TFT standard cannot be used as copy! Is the unique of all the list! So it is bad to use as "master" for a prop that doesn't offer oil, vix

So better would be to opt for royal or rapid, but royal has a better scale up of 25% like standard... so Royal seem the best.

Check my table now!!!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...frw/edit#gid=0
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,002
  • Oct 31, 2022 9:09pm Oct 31, 2022 9:09pm
Quoting forexbali
Look now! I created the column "ratio" to see what you see. Now I understand. TFT standard cannot be used as copy! Is the unique of all the list! So it is bad to use as "master" for a prop that doesn't offer oil, vix So better would be to opt for royal or rapid, but royal has a better scale up of 25% like standard... so Royal seem the best. Check my table now!!! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...frw/edit#gid=0 {image}
So the key observation I want you to note....all of the firms I recommend.......MFF,FTMO, TFF, TFT and E8 all have a "ratio" of 100% or less
  • #12,003
  • Nov 1, 2022 2:35am Nov 1, 2022 2:35am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So the key observation I want you to note....all of the firms I recommend.......MFF,FTMO, TFF, TFT and E8 all have a "ratio" of 100% or less
thank you mission complete
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,004
  • Nov 1, 2022 3:11am Nov 1, 2022 3:11am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} there are a lot, almost all in my list accept, or the major, there is some restriction in some cases like they don't accept EAs from the market but if you have your own code, or coming from capitalise.ai with your formulas, or if you can show them the EA to see if no other trader is using it, they can accept. However, EAs are well accepted, for what I read. If you have a solid EA, you can find easily a prop for you. But here somebody will advice you better on which can be better.
I have checked your spreadsheet and after that contacted some prop firms but they stated that EA's are not allowed. Is there any other list where can I see all prop firms that accept EA's?
  • #12,005
  • Edited 6:19am Nov 1, 2022 6:01am | Edited 6:19am
Quoting trader888888
{quote} I have checked your spreadsheet and after that contacted some prop firms but they stated that EA's are not allowed. Is there any other list where can I see all prop firms that accept EA's?
ok today I will add the EAs column and I will start to link each important data with the direct link so you can go direct there

I'm changing the ratio now, I consider the profit target 1 + target 2 and also the fee of program that for instant funding is very high, and also if it is refunded or LOST, I will start to work on it in 6-8 hours.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,006
  • Nov 1, 2022 6:28am Nov 1, 2022 6:28am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} ok today I will add the EAs column and I will start to link each important data with the direct link so you can go direct there I'm changing the ratio now, I consider the profit target 1 + target 2 and also the fee of program that for instant funding is very high, and also if it is refunded or LOST, I will start to work on it in 6-8 hours. {image}
With the changes you propose your ratio definition comes close to what TrAndy1 describes in this post as 'Expectancy'
Maybe you could reuse his formula so that your table can be directly compared with his tables as well?
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #12,007
  • Nov 1, 2022 6:32am Nov 1, 2022 6:32am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} With the changes you propose your ratio definition comes close to what TrAndy1 describes in this post as 'Expectancy' Maybe you could reuse his formula so that your table can be directly compared with his tables as well?
Yes is my idea we need to consider how difficult in a STEP 2 program is the target 1 and also the target 2

and more.. we need consider also the ratio total stop loss and daily stop loss...

I will try to take in consideration everything, but because we don't think to get stopped most important is how difficult is:

- make the profits needed to get payout (instand funded) or live account (challenge)
- the high fee paid for an instant funded
- if fee is refunded or not

I spend more time to go to check forum that do my own idea fast, now you put me in this math calculation and I will finish for today with this and EAs
and I think it's all... hope to don't continue like this for another month ha ha.
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,008
  • Nov 1, 2022 6:45am Nov 1, 2022 6:45am
I found the way... I give a bonus to TFT daily stop that is 1% more than others... with 5%

and it come out that TFT is good like MFF

so as I can, i have to go out now, I will use the daily stop as bonus in positive or negative... and we will get the expectancy as you said of the profit and better or worse daily stop....

like this TFT is 1% higher just because of the fee that has a small difference, but are almost the same

also we have to consider who has best commission... and more markets... that will make a difference, but I will not make an impossible formula for that ha ha.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,009
  • Nov 1, 2022 6:56am Nov 1, 2022 6:56am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} With the changes you propose your ratio definition comes close to what TrAndy1 describes in this post as 'Expectancy' Maybe you could reuse his formula so that your table can be directly compared with his tables as well?
Yes, that ratio really needs to be combined with the fee you pay vs. max loss allowed to get a true value/expectancy score. He could just have a column and pull those numbers directly from TrAndy sheet, they are dead on accurate.
OR
Better yet, just use FTMo, MFF, TFF, TFTP and E8 until the others come out with a better value and/or better rules and conditions AND 6 months+ of 100% payout proof.
  • #12,010
  • Nov 1, 2022 9:48am Nov 1, 2022 9:48am
How much capital do you guys manage on the market/investment?

-Own
-Funded accounts
  • #12,012
  • Nov 1, 2022 11:43am Nov 1, 2022 11:43am
E8 Funding goes live with its new "E8 Track" 3-phase evaluation model.

For me, an epic fail especially for the lower-end 25K account.

So for $138, I have to earn 8% then 5% then 5% for a 25K account,

OR, I can pay $139 at MFF for a 20K account and only have to earn 8% then 5%.

Nice try but no thanks.
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However, the larger account sizes might be of interest to some
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #12,013
  • Edited 12:46pm Nov 1, 2022 12:22pm | Edited 12:46pm
I added the E8 track new challenge
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I will finish in few hours the job of ratios and we should have a clear rank to comment

A preview of how we an rank based on the ratio
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,014
  • Nov 1, 2022 12:38pm Nov 1, 2022 12:38pm
Quoting Expo33
E8 Funding goes live with its new "E8 Track" 3-phase evaluation model. For me, an epic fail especially for the lower-end 25K account. So for $138, I have to earn 8% then 5% then 5% for a 25K account, OR, I can pay $139 at MFF for a 20K account and only have to earn 8% then 5%. Nice try but no thanks. {image} However, the larger account sizes might be of interest to some
Yes, especially considering the 20K at MFF gives you max loss of 2400, while the 25K at E8 provides 2000.
There is that trickery everyone falls for......the max loss is the actual amount YOU MUST base your risk on. So for the same cost, MFF gves you 2400, E8 2000 AND you must earn another 5% in a 3rd stage. So put 139 in a personal account, MFF targets you end up with 357, E8 you'd have 728........so in reality, you need DOUBLE the profit for 400 less DD......
Yep, like you said, hard pass here.
  • #12,015
  • Nov 1, 2022 12:48pm Nov 1, 2022 12:48pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, especially considering the 20K at MFF gives you max loss of 2400, while the 25K at E8 provides 2000. There is that trickery everyone falls for......the max loss is the actual amount YOU MUST base your risk on. So for the same cost, MFF gves you 2400, E8 2000 AND you must earn another 5% in a 3rd stage. So put 139 in a personal account, MFF targets you end up with 357, E8 you'd have 728........so in reality, you need DOUBLE the profit for 400 less DD...... Yep, like you said, hard pass here.
I think I can only compare same phase challenge, so I can compare only the instant with instant, 1 step with 1 step, 2 step with 2 step, and 3 with 3.
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,016
  • Nov 1, 2022 12:59pm Nov 1, 2022 12:59pm
Ok here how I calculate ratios:

Instant funded example:

1: I divide the target profit (P1) with max drawdown, I add the % to cover the fee not refunded spent.
I multiply then the much more profit have to be done based on the payout % so if it is 50%, you have to earn double more to cover
the fee spent and not refunded and the target, if any.
If program give you 90 days or 180 days, is 3-6 times more, so less pain, and I take it in calculations
If there is no target to reach, better.

2. phase 1
I take the sum of all phases target, and I divide for max drawdown.
Then I see which is the maximum best daily drawdown, let's assume it is 4%, if a program has 3%, I add penalty of 1% of more pain to cover.
Or you can see on the other side like this: if minimum is 3%, who has 4% get 1% less pain in the formula and who has 5% get +2% less pain in formula.
Phase 2
if lowest daily drawdown is 5%, who has 6% get 1% less pain in the ration and who has 10% get +5% less pain in calculation.
Phase 3, the same as above.

I go to double check.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #12,017
  • Nov 1, 2022 1:16pm Nov 1, 2022 1:16pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I think I can only compare same phase challenge, so I can compare only the instant with instant, 1 step with 1 step, 2 step with 2 step, and 3 with 3.
Don't need to do that......It is simply the profit of all phases against the max loss.....example......MFF is 13% (8+5) with 12% DD, E8 is 18% (8+5+5) with 8% DD
  • #12,018
  • Nov 1, 2022 1:21pm Nov 1, 2022 1:21pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Don't need to do that......It is simply the profit of all phases against the max loss.....example......MFF is 13% (8+5) with 12% DD, E8 is 18% (8+5+5) with 8% DD
yes I know, but I added something more! if the drawdown is below the average is a RISK MORE for the trader, to get out....

I mean if you have daily drawdown of 6% or 3% that is a big matter, doesn't matter that the profit to do is 10% for both.

I have to give a penalty to that programs!
in holiday till end of November
  • #12,019
  • Nov 1, 2022 1:54pm Nov 1, 2022 1:54pm
Quoting Expo33
E8 Funding goes live with its new "E8 Track" 3-phase evaluation model. For me, an epic fail especially for the lower-end 25K account. So for $138, I have to earn 8% then 5% then 5% for a 25K account, OR, I can pay $139 at MFF for a 20K account and only have to earn 8% then 5%. Nice try but no thanks. {image} However, the larger account sizes might be of interest to some
If you check higher account sizes, the offer seems pretty good. But yeah, it's not easy to pass 3 step challenge.
  • #12,020
  • Nov 1, 2022 2:15pm Nov 1, 2022 2:15pm
Quoting Expo33
E8 Funding goes live with its new "E8 Track" 3-phase evaluation model. For me, an epic fail especially for the lower-end 25K account. So for $138, I have to earn 8% then 5% then 5% for a 25K account, OR, I can pay $139 at MFF for a 20K account and only have to earn 8% then 5%. Nice try but no thanks. {image} However, the larger account sizes might be of interest to some
This is pure garbage offer.
Traditionally chance of passing exams are 33% with added phase it will be reduced to less than 10%
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